Have P&O finally lost the plot

[insanemagnet]

Is this why bar waiters are not one of the crew categories that benefit form the daily charge. Their 'tips' come from the number of drinks sold.

 

Of course their wages/tips come from the drink sales, why else employ them.

 

The interesting thing is these 'tips' are not optional, when in reality they is perhaps a greater argument for them to at the discretion of the customer than the service from the steward or waiters.

[Cruise Puss]

 

I thought P&O did include a service charge on drinks but it is rolled into the price of the drink and not itemised. Is this why bar waiters are not one of the crew categories that benefit form the daily charge. Their 'tips' come from the number of drinks sold.

 

They may possibly include it in the drinks prices, I would not know that, but the drink prices on P&O are cheaper than other cruise lines anyway. I also thought that the bar waiters were included in the daily charge, but again I could not be 100% sure.

[BrianI]

. I also thought that the bar waiters were included in the daily charge, but again I could not be 100% sure.

The bar/wine waiters are not included in the daily charge. However, they receive a "commission" on the drinks served. No service charge is added to your bill. The price on the menu is what you pay.

Brian

[insanemagnet]

The bar/wine waiters are not included in the daily charge.

 

How do you know, as the P&O website doesn't say who does and who doesn't benefit from the auto tips.

[Port out]

Of course their wages/tips come from the drink sales, why else employ them.

 

The interesting thing is these 'tips' are not optional, when in reality they is perhaps a greater argument for them to at the discretion of the customer than the service from the steward or waiters.

 

Going back maybe 15 to 20 years ago when tipping was an option across all service areas, P&O increase the bar prices by 15% and confirmed to passengers at that time that bar staff should not be tipped from then on as the increase in bar prices reflected their tip. I presume this policy has been maintained and is why bar staff are not shown as recipients of the service award.

 

Left out

 

Ships cruised on: Orontes, Himalaya, Sea Princess, ‘Old’ Oriana, Canberra, Pacific Princess, Island Princess, Star Princess, Regal Princess, Crown Princess, Royal Princess, Victoria, ‘Old’ Arcadia, Aurora, Oceana, ‘Old’ Adonia, Arcadia, Oriana, Adonia, Ventura, Azura.

Been on: RMS Queen Mary, RMS Queen Elizabeth, QE11, Caronia, Mauretania, Andes, Begona, Montserrat, Fairsky, Fairsea, Fairstar, Johan Van Oldenbarnevelt, Orangie, Astor 11, Chusan, Iberia, New Amsterdam, Southern Cross, Northern Star, Orsova, Strathnaver, Reina del Mar, Rotterdam, Ryndam, Saxonia, Crystal Sympathy.

 

123 P&O cruises, 20 in the pipeline.

[daiB]

They may possibly include it in the drinks prices, I would not know that, but the drink prices on P&O are cheaper than other cruise lines anyway. I also thought that the bar waiters were included in the daily charge, but again I could not be 100% sure.

 

 

No Dave is perfectly correct in what he says. You used to tip tour wine waiter in the MDR but this stopped and it was made clear that they get their "tips" from the drinks they serve. This is why if you are sat at the bar, as I do, and the bartender serves you he will pass on the card to a waiter so it can be charged against the waiters name. The bartenders get a salary and do not get a share of the tips derived from Bar sales.

 

 

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[Port out]

No Dave is perfectly correct in what he says. You used to tip tour wine waiter in the MDR but this stopped and it was made clear that they get their "tips" from the drinks they serve. This is why if you are sat at the bar, as I do, and the bartender serves you he will pass on the card to a waiter so it can be charged against the waiters name. The bartenders get a salary and do not get a share of the tips derived from Bar sales.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

Almost right Dai. The waiters get the %age as a tip but the bar tender, or outlet manager as they are known gets a kick back from the sales generated from their outlet.

Left out

 

Ships cruised on: Orontes, Himalaya, Sea Princess, ‘Old’ Oriana, Canberra, Pacific Princess, Island Princess, Star Princess, Regal Princess, Crown Princess, Royal Princess, Victoria, ‘Old’ Arcadia, Aurora, Oceana, ‘Old’ Adonia, Arcadia, Oriana, Adonia, Ventura, Azura.

Been on: RMS Queen Mary, RMS Queen Elizabeth, QE11, Caronia, Mauretania, Andes, Begona, Montserrat, Fairsky, Fairsea, Fairstar, Johan Van Oldenbarnevelt, Orangie, Astor 11, Chusan, Iberia, New Amsterdam, Southern Cross, Northern Star, Orsova, Strathnaver, Reina del Mar, Rotterdam, Ryndam, Saxonia, Crystal Sympathy.

 

123 P&O cruises, 20 in the pipeline.

[Cruise Puss]

How do you know, as the P&O website doesn't say who does and who doesn't benefit from the auto tips.

 

My husband remembers that certainly years ago the wine waiters and, therefore, bar staff were not included in the tipping. However, he thinks that this may have changed in recent years as he believes he has had a conversation with a member of the bar staff (we always sit at the bar, never down around tables) and that this barman said they didn't get commission from drinks anymore, and that it now came all from the auto gratuity. My husband may, of course, be wrong! :D

 

(Going on what I've just read above, he may well remember incorrectly!!)

[daiB]

My husband remembers that certainly years ago the wine waiters and, therefore, bar staff were not included in the tipping. However, he thinks that this may have changed in recent years as he believes he has had a conversation with a member of the bar staff (we always sit at the bar, never down around tables) and that this barman said they didn't get commission from drinks anymore, and that it now came all from the auto gratuity. My husband may, of course, be wrong! :D

 

(Going on what I've just read above, he may well remember incorrectly!!)

 

 

Wine waiters and those who serve behind the bar are not paid the same.

 

They are on different contracts.

 

 

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[bee-ess]

 

My husband and I don't think that £6 pppd is an extortionate tip when compared to others!

 

I agree that £p pppd is not extortionate compared to other cruise lines - my issue is that many do not pay it and are being subsidise by all of who do pay it.

[peteukmcr]

I agree that £p pppd is not extortionate compared to other cruise lines - my issue is that many do not pay it and are being subsidise by all of who do pay it.

Agree 100%. Those of us who do pay are being penalised as a result of those who do not or will not pay and using various excuses to justify their actions. Tipping is a part of cruising. Now that's my view to which I'm entitled, those of you who don't pay the daily suggested amount, that's your right, but do not lambast me for my views just because I don't agree with you.

[insanemagnet]

Tipping is a part of cruising.

 

You have overlooked the issue that P&O in particular is marketing itself to a new audience; just look at the Rob Brydon adverts.

 

Tipping has never been a dominant behaviour in UK life, unlike in the United States.

 

It is not surprising that some people question why they would be paying £12 a day in tips.

 

Most people would never leave a tip for the person cleaning a hotel room. Leave a tip in a buffet restaurant; again, most people would say you were crazy if you suggested it.

 

Which leaves the evening meal. Removing drinks, which it is mentioned have a separate service charge included, I doubt many people would agree they would have paid £120 for a couple.

[Cruise Puss]

A fascinating, if incendiary, discussion.

 

Unfortunately, tipping is part of cruising. You can disagree or agree with this, but at the end of the day it will still either be included in the cruise price, or added on to your bill (at the moment).

 

I suspect that eventually every cruise line will include it in the price and nobody will be able to take it off.

[insanemagnet]

Unfortunately, tipping is part of cruising.

 

That is your view, and that of many people who have historically cruised. It is not the view of all of the new group of people P&O are advertising to. Some may go with it, but not all.

 

You can disagree or agree with this, but at the end of the day it will still either be included in the cruise price, or added on to your bill (at the moment).

 

And then simply removed by those who think £12 a day of hidden charges is absurd.

 

I suspect that eventually every cruise line will include it in the price and nobody will be able to take it off.

 

They won't because they can advertise lower prices, increasing occupancy. At the same time a good chunk of traditional cruisers will hand over the optional charge.

 

Why would you want to advertise higher prices and reduce profits.

[Tikka234]

So I am not the only one who makes the bed and tidies up the bathroom before I can leave the cabin every day ha ha. Just a habit that I cannot break, even on holiday - I do it in hotels as well.

I'm the same when I stay at holiday parks or B&B or Hotels I even stripe the beds on the last day, not always a good idea as you see some stained pillows or mattresses.

[dorsetlad]

I was the one that started this thread, and am surprised at how much interest it has generated. I have no problem with gratuities per se. My gripe was the fact that we had already paid for this cruise with a gratuity rate of £5.50pppd, but P&O arbritarily increased it to £6.00pppd. How is that acceptable? If you buy a theatre ticket in advance, you would be justifyably annoyed if they then told you to pay another 50p for your ticket. We have another 3 cruises booked, and all were booked with gratuity at £5.50pppd.

[Cruise Puss]

 

They won't because they can advertise lower prices, increasing occupancy. At the same time a good chunk of traditional cruisers will hand over the optional charge.

 

Why would you want to advertise higher prices and reduce profits.

 

To be honest, nobody actually has any real idea how many actually pay the tips and how many don't. There are only relatively few on this forum that say they don't. My Mother-in-Law doesn't even look at her statement at the end of the cruise, let alone know there's a tip on it. How many others do this I wonder.

 

 

In the end, the cruise line will notice if the tipping goes down overall and will end up including it because they would probably have to increase the salaries of all the staff that are entitled to it, and they certainly won't want to do that.

 

 

It doesn't matter how many arguments people make for or against tipping. Once someone has an opinion about something, especially something as important as this, it is almost impossible to persuade them otherwise, and, therefore, this thread could go on forever! :D

[insanemagnet]

In the end, the cruise line will notice if the tipping goes down overall and will end up including it because they would probably have to increase the salaries of all the staff that are entitled to it, and they certainly won't want to do that.

 

Do you mean increase the wages back to the level they were before they reduced them when they increased the 'tips' by 50% so increasing the amount of money in the service reward scheme?

 

The 'tips' are just a revenue stream. The staff don't just receive a payment from the service reward scheme funded by the 'tips', but also a wage funded from the money received from every other source. The balance between the two will alter over time and it wouldn't be sensible to consider one without the other.

[terrierjohn]

I was the one that started this thread, and am surprised at how much interest it has generated. I have no problem with gratuities per se. My gripe was the fact that we had already paid for this cruise with a gratuity rate of £5.50pppd, but P&O arbritarily increased it to £6.00pppd. How is that acceptable? If you buy a theatre ticket in advance, you would be justifyably annoyed if they then told you to pay another 50p for your ticket. We have another 3 cruises booked, and all were booked with gratuity at £5.50pppd.

When we first booked this cruise the auto tip was £5, it would have been nice if P&O had agreed to honour this as other cruise lines have in the past in similar circumstances, but presumably some senior bean counter decided otherwise.

However as I, perhaps naively, believe this all goes to the stewards and waiters, and it is likely that their home currencies will have appreciated against sterling to a similar level as the dollar, then in reality they will receive no more money at all.

In fact possibly less if more passengers delete the auto tip, and others reduce or decline to give any extra, and its not their fault that we voted for Brexit, myself included.

[daiB]

Do you mean increase the wages back to the level they were before they reduced them when they increased the 'tips' by 50% so increasing the amount of money in the service reward scheme?

 

The 'tips' are just a revenue stream. The staff don't just receive a payment from the service reward scheme funded by the 'tips', but also a wage funded from the money received from every other source. The balance between the two will alter over time and it wouldn't be sensible to consider one without the other.

 

 

In your opinion.

 

 

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[bee-ess]

Do you mean increase the wages back to the level they were before they reduced them when they increased the 'tips' by 50% so increasing the amount of money in the service reward scheme?

 

The 'tips' are just a revenue stream. The staff don't just receive a payment from the service reward scheme funded by the 'tips', but also a wage funded from the money received from every other source. The balance between the two will alter over time and it wouldn't be sensible to consider one without the other.

 

I think we should have more information from the cruiseliines (it's not only P&O !!) about how this 'autotip' money is distributed. In P&O's case we are giving them £168 for 14 night cruise but we don't know where this money goes. There are many views on here about how this money is distributed but nothing definitive from P&O. Does it go to P&O or fully or part to the staff. Also a tip is a reward for good service but this is a service regardless or quality of service.

 

I can see why new cruisers baulk at this cost as they or we would not pay £168 tip after a 14 night hotel holiday and this figure increases regularly, albeit it is not as much as the US lines, but they come from a tipping culture that is typically as high as 18-20% on restaurants, taxis etc.

 

Then, there is the issue of some paying and some not, which is patently unfair.

 

I would be interested to know how Thomson do it, is there's part of the fare and they then pay the staff a set amount. I don't know but it does not seem to affect their bookings. I would like to see the P&O 'autotip' put onto the fare.

 

A couple of years ago we just tipped a nominal amount in envelopes to the staff and this system worked but it seems to have lost its way recently and I can't help thinking that it just another revenue stream going to the company and they have an internal system that gives the staff a portion of this money but probably not all of it.

[peteukmcr]

You have overlooked the issue that P&O in particular is marketing itself to a new audience; just look at the Rob Brydon adverts. What new audience is that?

 

Tipping has never been a dominant behaviour in UK life, unlike in the United States. True, but the cruise industry is different I would like to suggest

It is not surprising that some people question why they would be paying £12 a day in tips.

 

Most UK people would never leave a tip for the person cleaning a hotel room. Leave a tip in a buffet restaurant; again, most people would say you were crazy if you suggested it.

 

Which leaves the evening meal. Removing drinks, which it is mentioned have a separate service charge included (on P&O but not on many other lines where it ranges from 15% - 18% per drink), I doubt many people would agree they would have paid £120 for a couple. As shown below that's half the cost of other lines

Well I'd like to see their reaction if the daily rate was $14.95 per person or higher depending on stateroom category (approximately £24 for 2 per day) or basically double the P&O rate as it is on other lines.

 

But then again many of those you are referring to would never set foot on a US operated cruise line would they? ;)

 

Even Cunard which I assume is considered a UK brand charges from $11.50 - $13.50 pppd (£18 - £22 for 2 per day) which is at the lowest rate is 50% more than P&O.

 

P&O must be one of the lowest in the industry as even MSC is €9 pppd (£8).

 

I believe this is one of the reasons UK people stick with P&O, despite their protestations. However, as mentioned before, if P&O continue to allow people to remove them, the more they will increase to be paid by those that do pay IMHO.

[moswinner1]

We went on Harmony of the seas last May and a small Bud Lite and a 330ml can of Stella cost $15.50 ( £10.54 at the exchange rate at the time) On P&O in 2015 a pint of Stella cost me around £3.50 because they give me 8.5% off, whereas the American lines now add 18% and their drinks are more expensive to start with. The savings on drinks alone will cover the £6 a day grats. Yes I know not everybody drinks but that saving is also on soft drinks and coffees.

[jody75]

Just to clarify. Can one opt out of paying the gratuity altogether?

ABSOLUTELY. Just visit guest relations with the many hundred others and cancel the gratuities.

[insanemagnet]

What new audience is that?

 

A younger (but not young) audience who would have never considered a cruise before, and have been used to booking package holidays with no hidden charges.

 

The optional gratuities are hidden. If you know you can find them. If you don't, there is no mention of them when you go through the booking process, either online or by phone with P&O.

 

To most people, slipping a hidden charge on the bill is not something you would expect from a big name company like P&O. So it is no wonder some people's reaction is to remove it.

 

It is completely irrelevant what other companies do or charge. P&O should be honest and upfront, and when you look at their website it should show what the optional gratuity charge for the cruise you are looking at is.

 

P&O use the weasel word 'optional' and the guilt of people not wanting to be seen as cheap and diddling the staff.