Norweign Bliss thru the Canal

[Kamloops50]

Has anyone heard which set of locks the Bliss will be using ? I'd would like to cruise new locks instead of the old ones.

[shof515]

considering her size, i will bet on the new locks

[www3traveler]

She will use the "new" locks because She will not fit in the the old locks.

[Oakman58]

Yep, she will only fit in the new locks.

[20YearsBetweenCruises]

If you never did a Panama Canal cruise, which locks would you want to go through? Booked on Bliss,but wondering if I will miss the historic aspect if going through the new locks.

 

 

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[Kamloops50]

We have done the old locks three times. Interested in going thru the new old ones. If we won't be using the new . Well probably cancel.

 

 

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[BillB48]

If you never did a Panama Canal cruise, which locks would you want to go through? Booked on Bliss,but wondering if I will miss the historic aspect if going through the new locks.

 

 

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While I am certainly ready to have a go at the new locks, I really think that old locks have more to offer visually. Most cruise ships that still use the old locks are referred as Panamax which basically means they are about as big as you can get into the chamber. A Panamax ship will utilize over 90% of the chamber, just barely squeaking in with 2' on each side. Meanwhile at the new locks a ship like the Bliss will only use a little more than 50% of the chamber. I don't think it will look nearly as dramatic. Then then there is the different method of taking the ship through the locks... old locks up to 8 locomotives aka mules. New locks, 2 tugs that you probable won't see very much of, so there are less items to attract your attention. Another thing is the new locks is just a single lane, so you won't see the interaction with the ship in the opposite lane. You combine all these differences and then add that passage through the new locks is a bit s l o w e r than the old locks, perhaps it could cause the casual cruiser's attention to drift away from what an amazing task is being performed for you.

 

Even though most people look at the locks as the key part of the Canal since it is the "working" part of the operation, the good news is the rest of your transit will remain unchanged. The scenic cruise across Gatun Lake where the main channel follows the original path of the Chagres River and sailing through the man made fjord of Gaillard Cut, those are just as important to the Canal as the locks are.

 

I would prefer to do the old locks first, but I would not bypass an opportunity to make atransit using the new locks.

[BostonGal35]

Bliss will have to use the new locks given her size.

 

For my first transit, i want to do the old locks for the history, experience, etc. i will be upset, actually, if the Star next year goes thru the new locks for some reason.

[chengkp75]

Bliss will have to use the new locks given her size.

 

For my first transit, i want to do the old locks for the history, experience, etc. i will be upset, actually, if the Star next year goes thru the new locks for some reason.

 

It won't. Given the $20 per berth additional charge, plus the Canal's guidelines on which ships will use the new locks, any ship that fits in the old locks will continue to use the old locks.

[BillB48]

 

For my first transit, i want to do the old locks for the history, experience, etc. i will be upset, actually, if the Star next year goes thru the new locks for some reason.

 

While I won't say that the Star will absolutely not go through the new locks, I think the chances of that happening are somewhere between slim and none with slim having already left town! If she did use the new locks, that would be the Canal's call and that would only happen in the most unforeseen circumstances.

 

 

The biggest reason they would not slot her into the new locks would be mostly economic. The extra $$ they could wring out of the Star would not be worth giving her a slot at the new locks in place of one of the deep pocketed neoPanamax ships. Presently they are only locking through between 4 and 6 ships a day that are too large for the old locks. The plan is to gradually increase that number to around 12 neoPanamax ships per day. The Star would pay around $350K to use the new locks whereas they probably pick up $500K+ for a ship that can't use the old locks.

 

I think your spot at the old locks is safe, besides if it did happen that is a good excuse to book another Canal cruise;)

[BrentD]

It won't. Given the $20 per berth additional charge, plus the Canal's guidelines on which ships will use the new locks, any ship that fits in the old locks will continue to use the old locks.

It's only $10 more per berth according to the new rates published last year. But given the 2200 cabins in Bliss, that's an additional $22,000 just to go through these things as best I can tell. That's over $300,000 just to float through these things! And I'm not sure that even includes the fees for tugs, pilots, etc. Wow...

[BillB48]

It's only $10 more per berth according to the new rates published last year. But given the 2200 cabins in Bliss, that's an additional $22,000 just to go through these things as best I can tell. That's over $300,000 just to float through these things! And I'm not sure that even includes the fees for tugs, pilots, etc. Wow...

 

Pilots are FREE! Well they are actually included in the toll, however there is a little list of "other" charges that is not included in the toll. Some of the major ones... $35000 for the transit reservation, $30000 daylight guarantee, $12000 for tugs (even if not used), $4800 for each cable used from the mules and a similar amount for the Canal's seamen that come aboard to handle the cables in the locks and the list goes on. Those are the big ticket items tho.

[BrentD]

Pilots are FREE! Well they are actually included in the toll, however there is a little list of "other" charges that is not included in the toll. Some of the major ones... $35000 for the transit reservation, $30000 daylight guarantee, $12000 for tugs (even if not used), $4800 for each cable used from the mules and a similar amount for the Canal's seamen that come aboard to handle the cables in the locks and the list goes on. Those are the big ticket items tho.

$2.5 billion in private financing was used to build the new one (not counting gov't financing). They're expected to pay all of it back with interest in about 8 years. That's $285+ million per year they can afford to pay off with those fees. Of course that's not even counting paying all the workers, maintenance/upkeep, and utilities used to run the things that still get covered as well. :eek::eek::eek:

[Kamloops50]

The electricity doesn't cost them anything. Surplus electricity sold on the open market. This pays the cost on maintaining the powerhouse and generating system. The actual cost ended up being about 10 billion. Some is still in litigation as to who is going to pay.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

The electricity doesn't cost them anything. Surplus electricity sold on the open market. This pays the cost on maintaining the powerhouse and generating system. The actual cost ended up being about 10 billion. Some is still in litigation as to who is going to pay.

 

 

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Well, not quite. About 3/4 of the canal's required power is generated by diesel generators (the remaining 1/4 by hydropower), so there is a fuel cost, as well as a maintenance cost. And droughts like they had a couple years ago, reduced the available hydropower. For the new locks, each lock complex has its own diesel power generation station.

[Kamloops50]

Maybe the diesel generator are standby unit only.

 

 

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[20YearsBetweenCruises]

While I am certainly ready to have a go at the new locks, I really think that old locks have more to offer visually. Most cruise ships that still use the old locks are referred as Panamax which basically means they are about as big as you can get into the chamber. A Panamax ship will utilize over 90% of the chamber, just barely squeaking in with 2' on each side. Meanwhile at the new locks a ship like the Bliss will only use a little more than 50% of the chamber. I don't think it will look nearly as dramatic. Then then there is the different method of taking the ship through the locks... old locks up to 8 locomotives aka mules. New locks, 2 tugs that you probable won't see very much of, so there are less items to attract your attention. Another thing is the new locks is just a single lane, so you won't see the interaction with the ship in the opposite lane. You combine all these differences and then add that passage through the new locks is a bit s l o w e r than the old locks, perhaps it could cause the casual cruiser's attention to drift away from what an amazing task is being performed for you.

 

Even though most people look at the locks as the key part of the Canal since it is the "working" part of the operation, the good news is the rest of your transit will remain unchanged. The scenic cruise across Gatun Lake where the main channel follows the original path of the Chagres River and sailing through the man made fjord of Gaillard Cut, those are just as important to the Canal as the locks are.

 

I would prefer to do the old locks first, but I would not bypass an opportunity to make atransit using the new locks.

 

 

 

Thank you for the detailed reply. I have some thinking to do.

 

 

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[Kamloops50]

I've done the old locks three times. Interested in doing the new locks as a comparison.

 

 

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[BostonGal35]

one major difference i read about in my guidebook last night.

 

the old locks use the ropes attached to the electric "mules" to pull the ships thru. clearance of mere inches on either side of the ship. the new locks are much wider and ships are pulled thru via tugboats. for me, i really want to see the history, process and marvel of the mules.

 

the new locks to me are simply a way to pass thru the isthmus of panama. the old locks are where the marvel is at because you see first hand the amazing engineering feat that was accomplished for its time - and that has withstood time.

 

so for the poster whose done the old locks 3x, yes, id want the comparison of seeing the new locks too. but again, as a first timer, a history person, and someone who reads and researches on every port before i visit, i want the small locks.

[Kamloops50]

one major difference i read about in my guidebook last night.

 

the old locks use the ropes attached to the electric "mules" to pull the ships thru. clearance of mere inches on either side of the ship. the new locks are much wider and ships are pulled thru via tugboats. for me, i really want to see the history, process and marvel of the mules.

 

the new locks to me are simply a way to pass thru the isthmus of panama. the old locks are where the marvel is at because you see first hand the amazing engineering feat that was accomplished for its time - and that has withstood time.

 

so for the poster whose done the old locks 3x, yes, id want the comparison of seeing the new locks too. but again, as a first timer, a history person, and someone who reads and researches on every port before i visit, i want the small locks.

 

 

The Electric Mules never have pulled ships thru. They are used to position the ship in the canal. The pulling is an assumption that many writers .

 

 

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[pspercy]

I've done the old locks three times. Interested in doing the new locks as a comparison.

 

 

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I read somewhere that the only existing cruiseship to use the new locks this year is Caribbean Princess.

[Kamloops50]

Partial transits only

 

 

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[chengkp75]

The Electric Mules never have pulled ships thru. They are used to position the ship in the canal. The pulling is an assumption that many writers .

 

 

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This is quite correct. The ship's own propulsion is used to move the ship into/out of the locks (I know, I've been in the engine room for every Canal transit I've made). The mules will move along the lock walls with barely slack wires and then tighten them to position the ship within the lock and to keep it from moving while the water flows into/out of the lock. In the early days of the Canal, they did actually pull ships through, but those were the early steamships with less control of their propulsion than today.

[Oakman58]

We have done the old locks three times. Interested in going thru the new old ones. If we won't be using the new . Well probably cancel.

 

 

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Here a picture I took when passing through the Panama Canal locks on the NCL Star. You can see how close the ship is to the wall of the lock. Since the Bliss has a beam 30 feet greater than the Star there is no way it could possibly use the old locks.

[BostonGal35]

well, i guess whether the mules pull them or position them, i want to see them.