No More Deck 9 Cookouts for HAL

[SFBayAreaShipLover]

Unless there's a way to have portable hand wash sinks that could be brought out for BBQs, there could be complicated (and expensive) plumbing involved in such an installation.

 

 

 

I have to agree with you, might be simple to add at our home, but in ships it’s expensive to run hit, cold lines, drain though all the rooms below where there ceiling panels. Plus all the regulars costs for inspections, etc. I have ran many cruise ship refits, and some of the simplest looking costs more than you would think.

 

I miss the bbq too. We’re sailing on Grand Princess next month on coastal from San Francisco south. Will see if Bbq still

 

 

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[sail7seas]

I have to agree with you, might be simple to add at our home, but in ships it’s expensive to run hit, cold lines, drain though all the rooms below where there ceiling panels. Plus all the regulars costs for inspections, etc. I have ran many cruise ship refits, and some of the simplest looking costs more than you would think.

 

I miss the bbq too. We’re sailing on Grand Princess next month on coastal from San Francisco south. Will see if Bbq still

 

 

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I DON' AGRE it would be an overwhelming expense to put in a few hand wash sinks. Igt was a huge expense to toss all the items bearing the old HAL logo, and to paint the new logo on all the stacks. of all the ships, I think they like it just fine they have a n easy 'ougt' to stop the b'ques. They are happy to cut back on all that work and tell us ' so sad, so sorry'. IMO

[sail7seas]

I think hey are just fine stopping the b'ques and have the easy out to point the blame away from their penny pinching discontinuing something else they used to offer, they can make it a 'so sad, 'so sad, so sorry' not our fault, deal...........

[OlsSalt]

The general public has a difficult time understanding how the United States Public Health Service really works.

Their Cruise Ship Sanitation Manual is very long, very comprehensive and extremely detailed.

One needs to study it for years to get even fairly familiar with all the rules and regulations.

 

During a routine surprise inspection, if every regulation was applied, very few ships would be able to get a passing grade. And if every regulation was applied, the inspection - which normally takes from 3 to 6 hours - would require several days. Your cruise of a lifetime would sail a bit late.

 

So the inspectors come aboard, looking for the most obvious signs of a clean - or unclean - ship. When they see those signs, they then decide to start looking harder - or not.

 

Deck BBQs are a red flag for a USPH Inspection. Most cruise lines try to avoid having them in a US Port - unless they are reasonably sure that they are not scheduled for a surprise inspection that day. Difficulties with sneeze guards, open sky above food service areas, uneven heating of prepared foods, lack of handwashing facilities, open flames, lack of fire blankets and fire extinguishers, ashes flying around, electrical cords running on wet decks, and trip hazards are all things that get USPH inspectors very excited to look for even more problems - which they can always find.

 

Many of the mass market cruise companies got a bit smart and eliminated many of those red flags. Many ships today have electric rather than charcoal BBQ Grills. HAL refused to spend the money to fix that problem.

 

Many of the mass market cruise companies installed overhead electrical outlets for the BBQ and other powered machines needed for the BBQ. HAL refused to spend the money to fix that problem.

 

Many of the mass market cruise companies purchased portable handwashing stations to place next to the BBQ cooking areas. HAL refused to spend the money to fix that problem.

 

Many of the mass market cruise companies installed either portable or fixed bain-maries to keep the BBQ food at the proper temperature, behind sneeze guards. HAL refused to spend the money to fix that problem.

 

Many of the mass market cruise companies purchased market umbrellas and other tent-like structures to keep food service under cover. HAL refused to spend the money to fix that problem.

 

Do you see a pattern forming here??

 

All the cruise lines will still try to avoid deck BBQs in American ports. They just do not want or need the aggravation from USPH. But most of them have made the investments that allow them to serve a proper and safe BBQ to their clients whenever they would like.

 

HAL just is not willing to spend the money.

 

Reposted for the detailed information only; not for the OP's arbitrary conclusions. It is more than just putting in a few portable handwashing stations. Nor do we have facts about what "all other cruise lines" have done, that HAL has not.

 

How much money did it take to install all the Oprah stuff on each ship, if you are looking for ways HAL is currently spending its money including all the Oprah give-aways on 2000 plus passenger pillows every night.

 

Use your cruise evaluation form and register your wish to bring back outdoor BBQ's.

[sail7seas]

Returning from a long excursion today, I looked forward to the traditional Juneau cookout only to learn that new health rules require all cooking to be done in designated/certified kitchens. I verified this sad news with the Lido Manager who used to be responsible for the outside grilling.

 

Hopefully, this only affects US ports.

 

The smell of salmon grilling over charcoal will now be just a fond memory.

 

 

Why are so many here willing to say, Oh gee , HAL would have to spend a lot of money to continue providing ghe b';ques? So What? It;;s the hopitality businss and a company needs to spend for many things. Seems some are jus fine if HAL cuts, cuts, cuts to avoid spending money required make the product safe. T hey do not cut, cut, our fare every time they take something else away? I'm not okay with it. hey charge just fine for many of the cabins and if they have to charge more to provide a good product than do so. I have compared what w e paid for same ships, same cabin same itinerary , years ago and despite some her saying, look how much the price has d,roped it simply is not true in accord with my receipts I have compared. HAL cheapens, the product, is okay with offering less, I am not okay paying the same ( for a solo) as I paid for a couple and to add insult, getting less because some here think it okay cto excuse HAL from spending what it would take to safely allow the b'que If we don't want to pay what it t akes, we won't, If they keep cutting, some of us may say i'm not paying to cuise on a ship that won'twspend the cost neccessary to provide a safe deck b'que.

 

It still amazes me how HAL offered no special anything for our whole Bermuda cruise,, I mean nothing..... special.

Edited March 21, 2018 by sail7seas

[SilvertoGold]

The World Cruise just had a Tropical Fruit Buffet, set up in the Lido. No doubt you could take your choices out to the pool area.

 

To me this is a good, smart compromise and could undoubtedly be used for BBQs, although somewhat modified.

[Despegue]

The fact that BBQ’s have been eliminated on all sailings and not just on USA originating routes, proves that HAL has used the USPH as an excuse for cost-cutting this beloved-by-many activity.

By the way, I find this whole USPH bbq issue exremely anal of them. Voila, I said it. It is the result of an overzealous institution that is looking for trouble instead of solutions, which is almost always a sure sign of total incompetency within.

[bUU]

Regulations suck.

Except when you get sick because they don't have sufficient regulations to ensure people do the right thing.

[bUU]

What could b e the big deal to insall a few hand wash sinks? Put in some sinks instead of wasting money on changing the long honored HAL logoThat had to have cost a lot of money to change for no obvious reason.

Unless there's a way to have portable hand wash sinks that could be brought out for BBQs, there could be complicated (and expensive) plumbing involved in such an installation.

Precisely. It is very common for us passengers (guests, etc.) to grossly underestimate how much it would for the cruise line (airline, railroad, resort hotel, etc.) to do something that we want them to do, and very common for us passengers (guests, etc.) to grossly underestimate the value of things like marketing, market research, advertising and promotion when we personally don't benefit from those things.

 

it's a convenient excuse to take away another popular feature from our cruises.

Reading nefarious intent into something just because we're frustrated with the impact of it is myopic nonsense. Remember: The cruise line is in business; they're not operating as a charity. When something is determined to cost more than its projected return on investment, that's not an "excuse" - that's financial justification and responsible exercise of fiduciary responsibility.

[iancal]

It is unclear to me how anyone can say that HAL is using these health regulations as a means to reduce costs.

 

That is not to say that HAL, and all other mass market cruise lines, have not been cutting costs. They have. It is simply that I do not possess any knowledge in the health and safety arena concerning food prep and safety.

 

I suspect that there are very few posters on this board that do possess this knowledge. Perhaps HAL is simply erring on the side of safety. Perhaps they feel the regulations are too onerous or that they are not willing to make the investment required to meet the necessary standards. Who really knows for certain?

[SFBayAreaShipLover]

It is unclear to me how anyone can say that HAL is using these health regulations as a means to reduce costs.

 

 

 

That is not to say that HAL, and all other mass market cruise lines, have not been cutting costs. They have. It is simply that I do not possess any knowledge in the health and safety arena concerning food prep and safety.

 

 

 

I suspect that there are very few posters on this board that do possess this knowledge. Perhaps HAL is simply erring on the side of safety. Perhaps they feel the regulations are too onerous or that they are not willing to make the investment required to meet the necessary standards. Who really knows for certain?

 

 

 

This is also the reason HAL has a constant high Heath score ratings over all. The rules are very stritic. If any of you folks take the galley tours, you will notice you will not even find screw heads that can hold food and germs, everything must be built and made easily for proper cleaning. Yes few people understand those rules.

 

 

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[OlsSalt]

A few years back it was the onboard noro-virus incidents that were doing a real number on the entire cruise industry. No one bothered to distinguish the differences between various cruise lines and the media just loved feeding the lurid headlines.

 

My seaside town public blogs, which is just starting to become a repositioning cruise ship stop, were full of claims that these cruise ships would be discharging diseased passenger, bringing plague and destruction into our midst, along with air pollution, water pollution and dead whales washing ashore after being sliced in half by the ship's bow. Erring on the side of caution unfortunately became a necessary part of countering this ready public hysteria that was mounting against cruise ships at that time.

 

Facts got trumped by another agenda, and a few very poor real life cruise ship malfunction scares that were mainly on Carnival ships. You don't hear much about those same dirty ship claims any longer. Could well be that what looks like overkill by the CDC Vessel Sanitation Program has helped both the passengers now onboard, as well as the image of cruise travel for those who were not. Or the headline generating news media has just moved on to other targets.

[chengkp75]

The fact that BBQ’s have been eliminated on all sailings and not just on USA originating routes, proves that HAL has used the USPH as an excuse for cost-cutting this beloved-by-many activity.

By the way, I find this whole USPH bbq issue exremely anal of them. Voila, I said it. It is the result of an overzealous institution that is looking for trouble instead of solutions, which is almost always a sure sign of total incompetency within.

 

It is not an issue for the USPH. Other cruise lines continue to have on deck barbeques. It is merely that with their current equipment and layout HAL does not meet the requirements. Again, it comes down to cost/reward. Obviously HAL does not see a commensurate reward to bringing the barbeque back compared to the cost. Simple business economics.

[OlsSalt]

How much verifiable cause and effect research goes into some/many of the VSP requirements?

 

Or is it just good theory decided by a committee dealing with potential hypotheticals that have no relationship to the real world. Do/can passengers really get sick if there is an open screw head?

 

OSHA is another example of theoretical regulation overkill that if stringently applied, one could barely do their own job.

[sail7seas]

How much verifiable cause and effect research goes into some/many of the VSP requirements?

 

Or is it just good theory decided by a committee dealing with potential hypotheticals that have no relationship to the real world. Do/can passengers really get sick if there is an open screw head?

 

 

 

 

OSHA is another example of theoretical regulation overkill that if stringently applied, one could barely do their own job.

 

 

 

If you actually find a reliable response, please let us know.

[chengkp75]

How much verifiable cause and effect research goes into some/many of the VSP requirements?

 

Or is it just good theory decided by a committee dealing with potential hypotheticals that have no relationship to the real world. Do/can passengers really get sick if there is an open screw head?

 

OSHA is another example of theoretical regulation overkill that if stringently applied, one could barely do their own job.

 

As opposed to OSHA, the VSP was promulgated in conjunction between the world leading experts on infectious diseases, and the cruise industry itself.

[sail7seas]

The fact that BBQ’s have been eliminated on all sailings and not just on USA originating routes, proves that HAL has used the USPH as an excuse for cost-cutting this beloved-by-many activity.

By the way, I find this whole USPH bbq issue exremely anal of them. Voila, I said it. It is the result of an overzealous institution that is looking for trouble instead of solutions, which is almost always a sure sign of total incompetency within.

 

 

Thank you for summing it up so well and likely spot on.

 

 

Who is HAL kidding to represent this is about hand wash sinks? It's about $$$ as is almost eveything re; cruise ships.They jumped all o over USPH's inspection as an 'easy' out' from doing something t hey want to discontinuel.

[kazu]

No one knows if HAL wanted to discountinue these.

 

None of us have access to HAL head office discussions.

 

From an on board experience...

 

The crew, cooks and chefs certainly seemed to enjoy showing off their "stuff". Several of them would say "don't miss the bbq today with a big smile ".

 

I enjoyed them and miss them, but I do think $$ have played the role in this and not an "excuse" to discontinue them.

[SFBayAreaShipLover]

A few years back it was the onboard noro-virus incidents that were doing a real number on the entire cruise industry. No one bothered to distinguish the differences between various cruise lines and the media just loved feeding the lurid headlines.

 

My seaside town public blogs, which is just starting to become a repositioning cruise ship stop, were full of claims that these cruise ships would be discharging diseased passenger, bringing plague and destruction into our midst, along with air pollution, water pollution and dead whales washing ashore after being sliced in half by the ship's bow. Erring on the side of caution unfortunately became a necessary part of countering this ready public hysteria that was mounting against cruise ships at that time.

 

Facts got trumped by another agenda, and a few very poor real life cruise ship malfunction scares that were mainly on Carnival ships. You don't hear much about those same dirty ship claims any longer. Could well be that what looks like overkill by the CDC Vessel Sanitation Program has helped both the passengers now onboard, as well as the image of cruise travel for those who were not. Or the headline generating news media has just moved on to other targets.

 

 

 

Olsalt,

 

I think you said it very well.... I really do feel the VSP program has helped a lot... esp for the ships that hit American ports. Cruise lines can’t win either way. Folks get sick, looks bad against them. They take extra precautions folks get upset. Having been going on cruises as a passenger for over 35 years, and also a shipyard project manager that has dealt with the VSP program. I feel it’s all for the best. If folks were to look in kitchens of many shore side resturants, they properly wouldn’t eat there.. the VSP program on land would have a bad effect on them.

 

 

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[sail7seas]

No one knows if HAL wanted to discountinue these.

 

None of us have access to HAL head office discussions.

 

From an on board experience...

 

The crew, cooks and chefs certainly seemed to enjoy showing off their "stuff". Several of them would say "don't miss the bbq today with a big smile ".

 

I enjoyed them and miss them, but I do think $$ have played the role in this and not an "excuse" to discontinue them.

 

 

By the same logic none of us knows it is NOT an excuse to end the barbeque s and in the process save money. Some of us know comments that have been made to us by various crew through the years and that leads us to a certain train of thought. Not much that happens on a cruise is NOT connected to money in one way or another . I think hthe Chefs and cooks do a lot of hard work for those events but seem to enjoy the chance to interact with guests as they go through the serving line choosing if they want, a burger, ribs or whatever. They seem to enjoy the evening despite the hard work setting it up etc. They lovd when someone says something like " it all looks so Good. :) What Che f wouldn't like that?

[OlsSalt]

By the same logic none of us knows it is NOT an excuse to end the barbeque s and in the process save money. Some of us know comments that have been made to us by various crew through the years and that leads us to a certain train of thought. Not much that happens on a cruise is NOT connected to money in one way or another .........

 

The Dutch East India company has been going to sea and making money since1602. Holland got very good at this apparently simple concept. :hearteyes:

 

(PS: It is all about money for use too)

[sail7seas]

The Dutch East India company has been going to sea and making money since1602. Holland got very good at this apparently simple concept. :hearteyes:

 

(PS: It is all about money for use too)

 

Okay, charge us and call t he deck barbeque an ' on board' excurrsion. I would have paid for som thing to be offered during our Bermuda cruise.

 

But No, they offered nothing special.

[kazu]

I must be missing something here, but if a person is in Bermuda, is it not anticipated they will be in the port exploring? Isn't that why people go to Bermuda? Activities on board are usually less when you are in port.

[OlsSalt]

Okay, charge us and call t he deck barbeque an ' on board' excurrsion. I would have paid for som thing to be offered during our Bermuda cruise.

 

But No, they offered nothing special.

 

You might be on to something. Maybe a local catering company could come on board, who has a set up that meets the necessary food service requirements.

[kazu]

You might be on to something. Maybe a local catering company could come on board, who has a set up that meets the necessary food service requirements.

.

 

No thank you. Uggh :(