Bruin Steve Posted August 18, 2017 #1 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I spoke last night with a RCCL representative--the sales director for the region of California from the Northern part of Los Angeles up to Mammoth...We got into a discussion about the lack of RCCL/Celebrity ships home-porting in California. I was prepared for all of the usual "reasons" thrown around here on Cruise Critic--ie. they didn't make that much money while here, they had to lower prices to compete with Carnival, lack of viable ports to visit, consumer fears of traveling to Mexico...BUT, no, the prime reason he came up with was a new one to me...and something I am guessing most people here are also not aware of: Apparently, commencing in 2014, California passed a new law: http://www.polb.com/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=10587 ...requiring that, while in port, ships must shut down their auxiliary engines and plug themselves into the "grid". He told me that NONE of the Royal Caribbean ships currently in the fleet have the capacity to do that. None of them are equipped so as to allow them to just "plug in". The law, apparently has an exemption for a minimal number of cruises a year per ship--in order for the line to get the ships relocated between the Caribbean market and the Alaska market--but, beyond that, they are simply banned from stopping here. I asked how Carnival and Princess were able to do it...and he told me THEIR ships have that capacity. He said he believes that the newly designed and ordered RCCL ships will have that ability, but none do as of yet. He did, of course, note that they do make more money in China--mostly because of the casino revenues on those cruises...admitting at the same time that the Caribbean cruise don't come close to matching that revenue either--but Royal Caribbean, being based in Miami and having "Caribbean" as their "middle name", won't give up those routes... But he also said he "would not rule out" Royal Caribbean returning to the West Coast...but, as of now, that electricity restriction is the main qualifier. Interesting, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bennett'sCruise Posted August 18, 2017 #2 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Hmmm Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalCruzzing Posted August 18, 2017 #3 Share Posted August 18, 2017 It not that difficult to modify a ship to tax shore power. I heard the real reason is that CA air pollution standard forces all ships to stop using bunker oil within 12 miles of CA and they have to switch to a much more expensive diesel oil when in CA waters. This means all ships have to carry both fuels in separate tanks and makes it both a logistics and heavy cost burden Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peety3 Posted August 18, 2017 #4 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Juneau requires the same. So for RCCL, wah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiserBruce Posted August 18, 2017 #5 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I understand a number of European ports have similar fuel and pollution restrictions, although perhaps not as restrictive as California. RCCL maybe drifting behind in modern technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieN Posted August 18, 2017 #6 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Went googling and found out that the bunker oil regulation went into effect in 2008, right when the economy tanked and RCI pulled out http://lngbunkering.org/lng/regulations/us-legislation/california-regulations As a native Angeleno I appreciate the ability to breathe decent air. I live at the base of the tallest mountain in So Cal. Nowadays I can see the top of Baldy most days. A huge improvement. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swedish weave Posted August 18, 2017 #7 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I read somewhere that it costs around two million dollars per ship to equip them for plug in power. Maybe that helped spur RCCL decision to leave Calif. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CruiserBruce Posted August 18, 2017 #8 Share Posted August 18, 2017 As a native Angeleno I appreciate the ability to breathe decent air. I live at the base of the tallest mountain in So Cal. Nowadays I can see the top of Baldy most days. A huge improvement. Sent from my iPhone using Forums I love it when people complain about the EPA, or California's laws being strict. People who have no idea how bad the smog was in LA up to the 1980s. And how much better things are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcerst Posted August 18, 2017 #9 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I love it when people complain about the EPA, or California's laws being strict. People who have no idea how bad the smog was in LA up to the 1980s. And how much better things are today. Yep, I lived there in the 80s and totally agree Sent from my SM-J320V using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted August 19, 2017 #10 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I spoke last night with a RCCL representative--the sales director for the region of California from the Northern part of Los Angeles up to Mammoth...We got into a discussion about the lack of RCCL/Celebrity ships home-porting in California. I was prepared for all of the usual "reasons" thrown around here on Cruise Critic--ie. they didn't make that much money while here, they had to lower prices to compete with Carnival, lack of viable ports to visit, consumer fears of traveling to Mexico...BUT, no, the prime reason he came up with was a new one to me...and something I am guessing most people here are also not aware of: Apparently, commencing in 2014, California passed a new law: http://www.polb.com/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=10587 ...requiring that, while in port, ships must shut down their auxiliary engines and plug themselves into the "grid". He told me that NONE of the Royal Caribbean ships currently in the fleet have the capacity to do that. None of them are equipped so as to allow them to just "plug in". The law, apparently has an exemption for a minimal number of cruises a year per ship--in order for the line to get the ships relocated between the Caribbean market and the Alaska market--but, beyond that, they are simply banned from stopping here. I asked how Carnival and Princess were able to do it...and he told me THEIR ships have that capacity. He said he believes that the newly designed and ordered RCCL ships will have that ability, but none do as of yet. He did, of course, note that they do make more money in China--mostly because of the casino revenues on those cruises...admitting at the same time that the Caribbean cruise don't come close to matching that revenue either--but Royal Caribbean, being based in Miami and having "Caribbean" as their "middle name", won't give up those routes... But he also said he "would not rule out" Royal Caribbean returning to the West Coast...but, as of now, that electricity restriction is the main qualifier. Interesting, huh? Pretty sure this has been brought up before, but thanks for the clarification. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Forums mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieN Posted August 19, 2017 #11 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Yep, I lived there in the 80s and totally agree Sent from my SM-J320V using Forums mobile app I love it when people complain about the EPA, or California's laws being strict. People who have no idea how bad the smog was in LA up to the 1980s. And how much better things are today. Can't even remember the last Smog Alert we've had. Usually there were several each summer. The local populations called the Los Angeles basin The Valley of the Smokes because of the inversion layers etc. The industries made a bad thing worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bequia Posted August 19, 2017 #12 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I read somewhere that it costs around two million dollars per ship to equip them for plug in power. Maybe that helped spur RCCL decision to leave Calif. Chump change for RCCL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Keith1010 Posted August 19, 2017 #13 Share Posted August 19, 2017 I spoke last night with a RCCL representative--the sales director for the region of California from the Northern part of Los Angeles up to Mammoth...We got into a discussion about the lack of RCCL/Celebrity ships home-porting in California. I was prepared for all of the usual "reasons" thrown around here on Cruise Critic--ie. they didn't make that much money while here, they had to lower prices to compete with Carnival, lack of viable ports to visit, consumer fears of traveling to Mexico...BUT, no, the prime reason he came up with was a new one to me...and something I am guessing most people here are also not aware of: Apparently, commencing in 2014, California passed a new law: http://www.polb.com/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=10587 ...requiring that, while in port, ships must shut down their auxiliary engines and plug themselves into the "grid". He told me that NONE of the Royal Caribbean ships currently in the fleet have the capacity to do that. None of them are equipped so as to allow them to just "plug in". The law, apparently has an exemption for a minimal number of cruises a year per ship--in order for the line to get the ships relocated between the Caribbean market and the Alaska market--but, beyond that, they are simply banned from stopping here. I asked how Carnival and Princess were able to do it...and he told me THEIR ships have that capacity. He said he believes that the newly designed and ordered RCCL ships will have that ability, but none do as of yet. He did, of course, note that they do make more money in China--mostly because of the casino revenues on those cruises...admitting at the same time that the Caribbean cruise don't come close to matching that revenue either--but Royal Caribbean, being based in Miami and having "Caribbean" as their "middle name", won't give up those routes... But he also said he "would not rule out" Royal Caribbean returning to the West Coast...but, as of now, that electricity restriction is the main qualifier. Interesting, huh? This is correct. In fact because of this one of the Crystal ships had to revise its schedule earlier this year on a voyage going from Japan to San Pedro to end in San Diego instead given the number of other times that its sister ship would be using San Pedro this year. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Keith1010 Posted August 20, 2017 #14 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I do want to add that I am glad that California imposes these standards. I remember the day when you couldn't not only see because of the smog but the smell was terrible. Sometimes on a freeway in rush hour traffic during bumper to bumper traffic I thought if someone would light up a match the area would burst into flames. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinter Posted August 20, 2017 #15 Share Posted August 20, 2017 I love it when people complain about the EPA, or California's laws being strict. People who have no idea how bad the smog was in LA up to the 1980s. And how much better things are today. The 1980s? You should have lived in the LA basin like I did in the late 1950s and 1960s. I have vivid memories of going on school field trips in non-air-conditioned buses and the tears streaming down our faces because the smog was so bad. I lived in Pomona, and only when we had a good Santa Ana or the day after a good rain could we see Baldy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revdoll Posted October 6, 2017 #16 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Disney Dream Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankc98376 Posted October 13, 2017 #17 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Holland America Vista class ships have gas turbine engines they can use in Alaska for low emission Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare John&LaLa Posted October 14, 2017 #18 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Holland America Vista class ships have gas turbine engines they can use in Alaska for low emissionRadiance ships have gas turbines Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeepCalmBearOn Posted October 17, 2017 #19 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I love it when people complain about the EPA, or California's laws being strict. People who have no idea how bad the smog was in LA up to the 1980s. And how much better things are today. Oh yeah, I remember all the smog that cruise ships generated back in 60's, 70's and 80's. The local populations called the Los Angeles basin The Valley of the Smokes because of the inversion layers etc. The industries made a bad thing worse. Ummmm, actually LA was first called the Bay of Smokes (Baya de los Fumos) by Juan Cabrillo in 1542. Glad we got rid of all those nasty automobile, aircraft and space craft manufacturers from the Southland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SadieN Posted October 17, 2017 #20 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Oh yeah, I remember all the smog that cruise ships generated back in 60's, 70's and 80's. Ummmm, actually LA was first called the Bay of Smokes (Baya de los Fumos) by Juan Cabrillo in 1542. Glad we got rid of all those nasty automobile, aircraft and space craft manufacturers from the Southland. Were you living in the SFV when they were testing the rocket engines in the Santa Susanas? That site is now a Superfund site. After almost 50 years can still feel the hours long rumble of those things. Maybe that’s why so many of my generation aren’t freaked out by the more minor earthquakes. I know you do realize that pollution is a cumulative thing. Not only cruise ships but all the container ships, LA/Long Beach being one of the larger world ports. Can’t forget the Kaiser Steel plant that was out in my current area. It’s gone but it’s in-house medical plan still thrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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