Galveston weather concerns

[BarryH]

Got any facts, why did they not stay in coz, or divert to Miami right away. I don't see "tons of options" at all, just speculation. I mean really, you must have these answers since you are writing letters and posting. Maybe you have been a personal guest of the captain on the bridge?

 

Actions *are* facts. Operating with the exact same information CCL made different/better decisions than RCI. Why *didn't* CCL attempt to dock in Galveston and why *did* RCI? To answer your question with another question. In whose interest was it to get us to Galveston on Sunday when the odds were clearly unacceptable to CCL?

[MADflyer]

While this has turned out to be the worst case scenario and RCI had to divert their ship to their closest home port that would allow a Freedom Class ship for handling and provisions, anyone that has dealt with hurricanes for many years knows just how really unpredictable they are.

 

This was the 8th storm of the season and this is the one that they got right the day prior to it making landfall. It was at Category 2 just hours prior to your departure from Cozumel, strengthened later to Category 3 and just as it made landfall was placed at Category 4.

 

Here is a link to how a St. Petersburg station was predicting this storm Monday evening a week ago.

 

http://www.baynews9.com/content/news/articles/bn9/2017/8/24/tropics_ts_harvey_mo.html

[setsail]

Actions *are* facts. Operating with the exact same information CCL made different/better decisions than RCI. Why *didn't* CCL attempt to dock in Galveston and why *did* RCI? To answer your question with another question. In whose interest was it to get us to Galveston on Sunday when the odds were clearly unacceptable to CCL?

You are the one writing the letters, I thought you had all the answers and facts, maybe you don't have any at all, much less "tons of options"

[MADflyer]

Actions *are* facts. Operating with the exact same information CCL made different/better decisions than RCI. Why *didn't* CCL attempt to dock in Galveston and why *did* RCI? To answer your question with another question. In whose interest was it to get us to Galveston on Sunday when the odds were clearly unacceptable to CCL?

 

Carnival did plan to arrive at Galveston on Sunday. Their ships were heading toward Galveston while you were waiting to be the fist ship into port. Their ships were due in on Saturday and their forecasting did not show that happening, but it did show them being able to return late Sunday, just as RCI did.

 

Their ships were only diverted for one night to NOLA and had to turn around and head back to their home port as well when it was evident that conditions would not allow.

[denali1]

I am a shareholder with Royal. I am so disappointed in them (and ashamed of them). A complete lack of common sense. Not one of their better moments. And it will cost them big time.

[tugboat]

Hope you and Miss Kathy are doing OK Curtis.

 

 

 

Water is halfway up the driveway but we are dry, hoping to get to the port on Sunday[emoji50]

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Edited August 28, 2017 by tugboat

[BarryH]

Consider context, people.

 

Nice post. Thank you.

 

The challenge for a lot of you is you're dealing with this theoretically. In real life there are people who have run out of medication, people desperate to get back to their homes in Texas to assess damage, people who have left children and pets in the care of others, people who exceeded their budget at 7 days, and the list goes on.

 

A five day "detour" doesn't sound big on paper but to many on board it's huge. Especially when it appears it was completely unnecessary.

[destiny217]

We have sailed both lines numerous times and have enjoyed all our cruises.

 

All I can say is that the texts responses from Royal tell us all we need to know.

 

Hope all those now on the 4 ships and those who had planned to cruise this week are safe.

[LadyFureya]

I do hope that Royal makes the right (whatever that ends up being) and TIMELY call for the Sep 3rd sailing. We are supposed to be on the LOS Sep 10th cruise, and I wonder how this is all going to play out. My heart goes out to those dealing with all of this right now.

 

I'm expecting them to make a very, very last minute call on that one, unfortunately :( I'm on that one and we were planning on driving down. I'm expecting the port to be open but the road conditions will be too bad for travel.

 

I certainly hope they don't go ahead and leave as scheduled if travel makes it so bad for a significant number of passengers to make it to the port, just because the port is open.

[JFontaine]

From RCL's most recent 10K Report (February 2017), unchanged over the last dozen or so years, at a minimum - and I wonder how this played into their decisions, as all expenses related to this are theirs:

 

"We do not carry business interruption insurance for our ships based on our evaluation of the risks involved and protective measures already in place, as compared to the cost of insurance."

[TC1957]

 

...anyone that has dealt with hurricanes for many years knows just how really unpredictable they are.

 

 

I don't have a dog in this fight as we have no RCI cruise scheduled and don't own stock. However, I have lived in a state prone to hurricanes my entire life, have rode out two in my wood-frame home (before we moved) and know the topography around Houston and Galveston EXTREMELY well.

 

The National Hurricane Center and EVERY local meteorologist in DFW had been saying that this storm would make landfall near Corpus Christi for several days. They were also predicting the storm would not go very far inland before it stalled and would be able to pull moisture off the Gulf of Mexico while it was basically stationary...thus dumping several FEET of rain (not inches) on the area. DFW stations were saying that even though the official NOAA estimate was for an upper end Cat 2 storm they felt it would be a strong Cat 3 (made it to the low end of Cat 4 right before landfall).

 

Anyone who has ever seen a picture of a hurricane knows the east side of the storm is the worse side...and by a factor of at least 5...as that is the side the gets ALL the storm surge and tornado activity.

 

Hurricanes are, to some degree, unpredictable, but not to the extent that they would miss the projected landfall site by 260 miles 48 hours before it hit land. That is the miss it would have taken to put Galveston on the "good" side of the storm.

 

I have family in Southeast Texas (we live in DFW) and can assure you that a high school kid from there would be able to take the information they had and accurately tell you there is no way a ship was going to be able to dock in Galveston until late this week at best.

[OSUZorba]

Spirit's motto: "At least we are not United."

 

Yeah, at Spirit dental work is an an up-charge. United gives it to you for free.

[Coopdog08]

Carnival did plan to arrive at Galveston on Sunday. Their ships were heading toward Galveston while you were waiting to be the fist ship into port. Their ships were due in on Saturday and their forecasting did not show that happening, but it did show them being able to return late Sunday, just as RCI did.

 

Their ships were only diverted for one night to NOLA and had to turn around and head back to their home port as well when it was evident that conditions would not allow.

Point you missed is RC ship was as close as eight miles to port, carnival ships were never closer than 100 miles.

[EBFURR]

My wife and I were booked on the 8/27 Liberty sailing so I have skin in this game. We drove to Dallas Friday morning and listened to the reports coming out of Houston and wondered when we would hear from RCCL. I even called my travel agent and asked if our reservation could be transfered to a Florida sailing as it was already obvious that Galveston was going to be shut down for days to come. This was my first taste of truly bad customer service attitude from Royal to say nothing of horrible decision making. How can a major corporation fail so badly at the time a major disaster is happening in south Texas? What corporate culture causes this hazardous type of decision making? RCCL's corporate board needs to have an independent investigation and those responsible at the highest levels of the corporation need to fired. In is beyond incredible that as late as 9:30 am Sunday morning they sent an email to us stating we would sail Monday and that we needed to be to the port between noon and 3 p.m. Did no one in the Miami office bother to look at the live reporting on the Weather Channel, Fox News, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, etc and notice that Houston was flooding at a rapid rate. Finally the sent an email at 2 p.m. canceling the sailing. What possible explanation is there for that kind of decision making other than a complete focus on profit at all costs even when it means people potentially put their lives at risk? RCCL's senior management should be ashamed of themselves.

 

Yes, it is difficult if not impossible for anyone who was booked and had to deal with RCI this weekend to find anything approaching concern for their customers. From afar it may be possible to look at the situation and spin things to look in some sort of positive light, but if you were involved and had to talk to these people and try to make decisions it is impossible. Our roll call has several people who did make it to Houston one way or another an all are singing the same mournful tune. To me, it is the height of arrogance and insensitivity to second guess these people when they were acting on information supplied by RCI and put their faith therein. I was one of those to begin with and the only reason that I am not among those unfortunate one is that my flights were canceled while on the way to the airport. Here's hoping you guys can find a resolution soon. There but for a stroke of fate go I.

[kevdad]

EBFURR's approach was to head to the airport and get on flights to Houston. If not for the airlines canceling and because RCL didn't provide options, her honeymoon would be in Houston now... I guess RCL should thank the airlines for taking the "bailout" approach.

His anniversary... My apologies, EBFURR! I've been following your saga and could only wish to have your patience and good nature through everything. Congrats on your 35th anniversary and best of luck!

[BarryH]

From RCL's most recent 10K Report (February 2017), unchanged over the last dozen or so years, at a minimum - and I wonder how this played into their decisions, as all expenses related to this are theirs:

 

"We do not carry business interruption insurance for our ships based on our evaluation of the risks involved and protective measures already in place, as compared to the cost of insurance."

 

Wow. That explains so much and the basis for their decision making. I'll mention it in the interview I'm having via Skype with the #1 TV station in Baton Rouge this afternoon.

 

They are a CBS affiliate so I'm sure "live" feed from an affected ship will be picked up by the network.

 

Pay back time. :D:p

[BarryH]

Point you missed is RC ship was as close as eight miles to port, carnival ships were never closer than 100 miles.

 

And two stopped in New Orleans first giving passengers the option to disembark. The third ended up in New Orleans too I believe.

[destiny217]

Wow. That explains so much and the basis for their decision making. I'll mention it in the interview I'm having via Skype with the #1 TV station in Baton Rouge this afternoon.

 

They are a CBS affiliate so I'm sure "live" feed from an affected ship will be picked up by the network.

 

Pay back time. :D:p

 

(y)

[Cruzaholic41]

Hold on-BarryH is trapped on a vacation he probably wanted to end 24 hours ago, no doubt concerned about career and property, so perhaps we should cut him some slack for making certain assumptions. I postulate that it is difficult for Freedom Class to enter NOLA, I don't know if it is possible one way or another.

 

Despite this, none of this changes the fact that he could have disembarked yesterday from Miami with different decision making. At the very least, it is important that as part of the aftermath of these decisions we know for future reference what is or is not viable. And as a corollary, perhaps it would be in everyone's best interest to design and develop more and larger ports if not for commerce, then for security. Building ships so large it can only dock in certain places has its drawbacks. Especially if those certain places are unreachable. BarryH might have been able to take binoculars and see his vehicle sitting outside Galveston and was told he has to go to Miami.

 

Consider context, people.

 

I would agree if it was just emotional Internet postings. But when a letter is written to the news outlets, a little bit of research should be done first.

[spleenstomper]

Don't get mad, get even. I sent this to Fox, CNN, NYT, and WSJ along with RCI.

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Royal Caribbean Cruise Line and Hurricane Harvey – A Study in Corporate Greed

 

I’m one of the 3,600 passengers that boarded the Liberty of the Seas for a seven night cruise that left Galveston on 8/20. Obviously what happened afterward due to Hurricane Harvey (HH) is beyond anyone’s control.

 

How the two cruise lines (Carnival [CCL], and Royal Caribbean [RCI]) impacted by the conditions in Houston and Galveston handled passengers onboard their ships trying to return to port and passengers booked on subsequent sailings is very different.

 

First, both CCL and RCI are multi-billion dollar public holding companies with a duty to their shareholders to maximize profit and minimize losses. In the instance of Hurricane Harvey the goal for both companies was to: protect their assets (the ships), keep passengers and crew onboard safe, and minimize expense related to the disruption. It’s in the latter that RCI made decisions based on self interest with little regard to the hardship caused to passengers on board the Liberty and those trying to board it on 8/27.

 

• We (the Liberty) and the Carnival Breeze were docked in Cozumel on Friday when it became clear that HH was going to impact our return to Galveston. Both ships left and were due to return to Galveston on Sunday. CCL had two other ships, the Breeze and Valor, also trying to get back to Galveston. While we were in Cozumel CCL announced the Breeze would remain overnight pending further evaluation of conditions in Galveston and that the other two ships would be routed to New Orleans. Once in New Orleans passengers on those ships were given the choice of disembarking or staying with the ship to eventually return to Galveston. With New Orleans being within driving distance or an inexpensive flight away to their homes many passengers chose to disembark.

 

• RCI opted to sail the Liberty to Galveston and informed us onboard that conditions at the port were showing a “window” in which we would be able to dock as scheduled on Sunday. Those onboard watching the news were quizzical because everything we were seeing on TV and online was projecting devastating flooding and infrastructure damage. If we were able to dock what would happen to us subsequently? We were told we’d be receiving ongoing updates which were given. There was reference to an endless succession of “conference calls” with the Port of Galveston and local Disaster Management. All the updates we were given confirmed the “window.” Meanwhile it became clearer HH was going to move slowly or remain stationary causing untold damage to Houston and Galveston. There was no reporting entity that didn’t predict that.

 

• Saturday night RCI had us pack our luggage and prepare for disembarkation Sunday morning. At 6:00AM Sunday we were holding in place 10 miles outside Galveston waiting for a 9:00AM “conference call” to determine when we’d be able to dock. At 10:00AM the Port announced it would remain closed for at least 24 more hours. The Port also tweeted that road conditions in and out of Galveston were or were becoming impassible. Shortly thereafter the Captain of the Liberty announced our diversion to Miami. About a half hour later he announced our departure for Miami was being delayed because he was working with the already over-burdened Coast Guard to attend to three medical emergencies that had occurred onboard.

 

• Onboard, RCI shared our arrival in Miami would be Tuesday or Wednesday and that we could disembark or stay with the ship and return to Galveston with it on Friday. If we disembarked any travel would be at our own expense. A return on Friday would mean a seven night cruise would become a twelve night cruise. There are people onboard with jobs and family to get back to, people with homes in Texas likely destroyed that they desperately want to get back to, people with only seven days of critical medication, and a large number of mobility impaired people onboard including a veteran with a service animal. For that group a twelve day extended vacation, even if complimentary, is a huge burden and would never be opted for given an alternative.

To understand RCI’s decisions which are clearly based on their self-interest one needs to look at the following:

 

• Getting the Liberty back in position in Galveston as close to schedule as possible is/was RCI’s most cost affective option regardless of passenger impact. That was clearly the driving force in their decision making. In fact, they were telling people on the upcoming 8/27 sailing to proceed to port for boarding or risk losing what they paid for their cruise. They told those trying to get on that sailing the Liberty would sail a day later than scheduled on Monday. At that time conditions in Houston and Galveston were already unsafe and predicted to further deteriorate. They maintained this position until late Saturday while CCL began allowing cancellations mid-day Friday. People on the Cruise Critic discussion forum were up in arms at RCI’s callous indifference. RCI didn’t grant refunds until the Liberty was diverted to Miami Sunday morning – the day of departure for those booked on the 8/27 sailing.

 

• Had RCI not been so financially motivated to get the Liberty back to Galveston they could have made the decision to keep the ship in Cozumel an additional night (an expense) as CCL did and benefit from additional assessment of HH. Had they done that we could have sailed to an alternate port shaving days off our eventual return to Galveston when it was safe.

 

• The most galling display of expense management and the reason for me writing this missive is the choice of returning to Miami. There are few ports available for diversion that can handle a ship the Liberty’s size. New Orleans is one of them and in fact RCI has announced using New Orleans as a departure port in the near future. Had we diverted to New Orleans rather than attempting to dock in Galveston we would have arrived yesterday (Sunday) or today (Monday) at the latest.

 

• The futile and ill thought out attempt at docking in Galveston wasted two to three days when the decision to divert was finally made. We’re now enroute to Miami (two days) and it’ll take an additional three days to return to Galveston. That begs the question, why Miami and not New Orleans which is days closer? RCI is headquartered in Miami and sails a dozen ships out of Miami and Port Everglades. If we were diverted to New Orleans they’d have to fly in resources and establish a mobile command center assumedly at great expense. There can be no question that, RCI’s expense aside, a New Orleans diversion, and one made earlier, would have been in the best interest of those on the Liberty both in time and personal expense. Even diverting earlier to Miami rather than attempting docking in Galveston would have saved five days. Instead RCI opted for a solution that minimized or attempted to minimize disruption and expense for themselves. It spectacularly blew up in their face. We, and I speak for many onboard, find that behavior reprehensible and inexcusable. Especially in light of the trauma hundreds and perhaps thousands onboard are facing by not being able to return to their flood impacted homes in Texas for days and to be reunited with their loved ones.

 

As I began, RCI can’t be held responsible for a natural disaster. But they should be held to account for their behavior in dealing with it. And every decision they made showed little regard for their fare paying passengers best interest. To be clear, this isn’t about safety and our safety onboard was never in jeopardy. But there were many alternatives available to RCI with no impact on safety that could have made their passengers situations better.

 

I've been waiting for you to get mad, especially given your service industry career.

[grandgeezer]

Magic 8 ball says...LOL

 

That's probably how RCL made their choice.

[Cruzaholic41]

And two stopped in New Orleans first giving passengers the option to disembark. The third ended up in New Orleans too I believe.

 

Like several others, I'd also like to know how you're so certain that Freedom Class ships can go to New Orleans. I suggest actually doing some research before spouting off to the media.

[BarryH]

(y)

 

If you're going to be road kill be the kind that messes up their windshield. I'm feeling very Norma Rae all of a sudden. ;)

[spleenstomper]

I often disagree with things you post, but in this case I think you hit the nail on the head. We were deep into the worst flooding in the history of this part of Texas and the official line from RCI was still that people needed to provide proof of flooding in order to receive a cruise credit.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take off your Royal Blue colored blinders! I am an RCI frequent cruiser/Diamond member/Houston resident/stock holder who is appalled at what the 8/27 cruisers were being told. Royal Caribbean should have erred on the side of caution, and instead they insistently told future passengers they were proceeding with business (almost) as usual. 8/27 cruisers were repeatedly instructed their cruise would sail one day late, and if they were unable to make it proof of flooding was required.

 

I really don't understand why anybody thinks this is OK. It's one thing to make a decision based on current information and have it be the wrong decision. Compounding it by repeatedly telling people they should make their way towards Galveston as late as mid day yesterday is unacceptable. Do individuals need to purchase insurance and make decisions based on their safety? Absolutely! Nevertheless, I think Royal Caribbean has to shoulder a lot of the blame for the problems. I hope the fall-out from this incident causes Royal Caribbean to examine their policies and make changes that help improve decision-making in a time of crisis. I'm not going to hold out hold my breath though. That's what they said they did after sailing in Anthem into a storm.

 

 

 

 

 

 

JIm Walker would probably be interested in this. I'm not suggesting using his services... I think he really would be interested in seeing this.

[setsail]

Wow. That explains so much and the basis for their decision making. I'll mention it in the interview I'm having via Skype with the #1

 

You already brought this up earlier in this thread and it was answered in #995