Crisis in Barcelona

[Corfe Mixture]

Well, the subject has finally become a point of discussion over here. But perhaps not in the way it is being discussed on the other side of the Atlantic.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41346846

[Host Hattie]

This has been reported for several days over here, I can certainly understand the concern.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/20/spain-guardia-civil-raid-catalan-government-hq-referendum-row

[anniegb]

Just checked the FCO advice for UK travellers. Be aware - full stop. Mention of possible disruption to local transport services.

 

Let's keep it in perspective.

 

Annie.

[Corfe Mixture]

This has been reported for several days over here, I can certainly understand the concern.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/20/spain-guardia-civil-raid-catalan-government-hq-referendum-row

 

 

'I can certainly understand the concern' ......

 

Oh come on! GET REAL!!

 

As a moderator on here you should be promoting common sense not joining in the ridiculous scaremongering.

 

Where in the Guardian article is there anything which might suggest that tourists should be worried?

 

Check how many times the word peaceful is being used in the article. The only risk of violence is one of the police getting violent with the voters.

 

All that is going to happen is that the authorities are going to use force, and do things like seizing all the voting papers, in order to stop a referendum, that that would almost certainly result in a vote against independence.

 

I'm going to shut up now as it is obvious that one cannot reassure those that do not wish to be reassured.

[Host Hattie]

One man's ridiculous scaremongering is another man's staying informed.

[BritinSoCal]

This thread does seem to be the latest in a long line of "is it safe to go here (insert name of destination)?" following on from Mexico, "Europe", Turkey, etc... Frankly - and as someone who lived through the "Troubles" I'd be more worried about catching an early morning LAX flight after disembarking at San Pedro.

 

In terms of context this isn't the first Catalan referendum of recent times, nor the first in which the Madrid government has taken a dim view - in fact their promised response seems to be similar to that of the previous referendum.

 

But seriously, if you're worried or have concerns, don't ask a a complete group of strangers on a travel forum. Take a look at the advice for travellers on your government's website (generally I find the FCO is a little less "sensationalist" than the State Dept.)

 

Finally, remember that Princess isn't going to take you somewhere that isn't "safe" - if only because it's bad PR.

 

But if you still have doubts - don't go.

[grapau27]

This thread does seem to be the latest in a long line of "is it safe to go here (insert name of destination)?" following on from Mexico, "Europe", Turkey, etc... Frankly - and as someone who lived through the "Troubles" I'd be more worried about catching an early morning LAX flight after disembarking at San Pedro.

 

In terms of context this isn't the first Catalan referendum of recent times, nor the first in which the Madrid government has taken a dim view - in fact their promised response seems to be similar to that of the previous referendum.

 

But seriously, if you're worried or have concerns, don't ask a a complete group of strangers on a travel forum. Take a look at the advice for travellers on your government's website (generally I find the FCO is a little less "sensationalist" than the State Dept.)

 

Finally, remember that Princess isn't going to take you somewhere that isn't "safe" - if only because it's bad PR.

 

But if you still have doubts - don't go.

If your cruise departs from Barcelona just go straight from the airport to the port but really this is a safe place that has had holidaymakers flying here for over 50 years including myself and it is a fabulous place and if the FCO says it is okay your insurance will be fine so don't worry.

 

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[stevenr597]

I think the issue should be to report the facts, and get comments from the readers in regards to what these facts could and do mean. It seems that mentioning the referendum in Barcelona, and the possibility that could it have a potential effect on the cruise ships there seems to bend some people out of shape.

 

It's as if one see a hurricaine in the Atlantic, and an individual states that they do wish to talk about it.

 

If an individual doesn't think that this issue is worth discussing, than don't comment. If they think it is of no consequence, than state that, but please don't don't attack individuals who do raise the question.

 

In the spirit of this, just saw today that the National Government is stating that the local police forces should be under national, not local control, and they are making an effort to seize all the ballots, as well as arresting anyone who they feel is behind the referendum.

[Griller]

If your cruise departs from Barcelona just go straight from the airport to the port but really this is a safe place that has had holidaymakers flying here for over 50 years including myself and it is a fabulous place and if the FCO says it is okay your insurance will be fine so don't worry.

 

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Only thing that has ever worried me so far in Barcelona is being pickpocketed or experiencing luggage theft.

Its not unusual on the airport bus, train or around the La Rambla area.

Although it happens in every European tourist city it does seem to be exceptionally common in Barcelona.

[spookyfudge]

My wife and I are scheduled to depart on the Royal Princess, Oct. 21, 2017, from Barcelona, touring Spain and then cruising to Ft. Lauderdale. The rise in terrorism in Europe including the attack several weeks ago in Barcelona has been some cause for concern. However, most recently the issue of independence for the State of Catalonia may also be a problem.

 

There is a referendum scheduled in Catalonia, including Barcelona on Oct.1, 2017. The Spanish government has stated that they will not allow the vote to take place, however the local government in Barcelona insists that it will.

 

We do wonder whether this will be a problem for cruise ships going to and from Barcelona.

 

I would cancel and take what ever money you can, dont go!

[OzKiwiJJ]

We're on Royal at the moment. We embarked two weeks ago after two wonderful days in Barcelona, incidentally only two weeks after the La Rambla tragedy.

 

We felt perfectly safe in Barcelona. Yes, in some places there was increased security, like military guys toting machine guns, but we also experienced that in Paris, Naples, Civitavecchia etc.

 

We disembark on the 30th and are very much looking forward to two more days on Barcelona before returning to Australia. We're careful ... or as one Aussie politician once said "Be alert but not alarmed!".;)

 

Bon Voyage.

[Corfe Mixture]

I think the issue should be to report the facts, and get comments from the readers in regards to what these facts could and do mean.

 

Agreed, but remember, YOU were the OP and YOU chose the title for this thread. Had you entitled it Barcelona Referendum then we could have had a sensible discussion about the situation and reassured folks without having to put the scaremongering to bed .

 

Instead YOU chose to use the word 'Crisis in Barcelona' as the title, which is hardly reporting a fact and creates a perception in potential visitors who are not familiar with the situation that this is going to put them at risk even before they have read one word on the subject.

 

Remember, these protesters are committed to expressing their desire for change by peaceful protest and know that they will hold the moral high ground if the authorities prevent them from testing public opinion in what most people would regard is a reasonable manner.

 

I don't wish to offend anyone with the following parallel, but contrast this with the situation a few weeks ago in Charlottesville where, despite the fact that at least one group arrived with the intention of holding a violent protest, I don't think any of us would have been inclined to use the word 'crisis' and I certainly I can't imagine anyone even thinking of suggesting that people should not visit Charlottesville three weeks after the event.

[stevenr597]

Agreed, but remember, YOU were the OP and YOU chose the title for this thread. Had you entitled it Barcelona Referendum then we could have had a sensible discussion about the situation and reassured folks without having to put the scaremongering to bed .

 

Instead YOU chose to use the word 'Crisis in Barcelona' as the title, which is hardly reporting a fact and creates a perception in potential visitors who are not familiar with the situation that this is going to put them at risk even before they have read one word on the subject.

 

Remember, these protesters are committed to expressing their desire for change by peaceful protest and know that they will hold the moral high ground if the authorities prevent them from testing public opinion in what most people would regard is a reasonable manner.

 

I don't wish to offend anyone with the following parallel, but contrast this with the situation a few weeks ago in Charlottesville where, despite the fact that at least one group arrived with the intention of holding a violent protest, I don't think any of us would have been inclined to use the word 'crisis' and I certainly I can't imagine anyone even thinking of suggesting that people should not visit Charlottesville three weeks after the event.

 

Have to disagree with you on this one. Took took many of the words and statements from U.S News Services. The fact that the federal government is stating that they will call out federal troops and arrest the leaders of the movement, and the fact that the greatest number of demonstrations is/are taking place in the city of Barcelona does make the title and the discussion appropriate.

 

However, thanks for your opinion.

[Corfe Mixture]

Have to disagree with you on this one.

.....However, thanks for your opinion.

 

No problem. At least we have exercised the subject in a way which will allow everyone to assess the various reports and information and come to their own conclusion.

 

The one thing that is certain is that by this time next week we will know much more and in four weeks time we will all know whether or not it impacted on your cruise.

[Astro Flyer]

'stevenr597' and 'Corfe Mixture'...appreciate turning this into a respectful discussion about the situation resulting in learning more about it instead of childish name calling. It's refreshing to be able to disagree without being disagreeable which is too often lacking in this social media world. It has resulted in gaining more knowledge & to become better informed.

 

Corfe...I think you're British so do you consider the BBC to be an objective source of news? I'm reading different news sources seeking objective reporting on this situation. Hopefully my question won't divert this discussion into a debate about news sources but it's not easy to discover objective facts about an evolving situation.

 

Then travelers can make a decision based on their comfort zone without someone telling them what they should do.

[Flamencacha]

My wife and I are scheduled to depart on the Royal Princess, Oct. 21, 2017, from Barcelona, touring Spain and then cruising to Ft. Lauderdale. The rise in terrorism in Europe including the attack several weeks ago in Barcelona has been some cause for concern. However, most recently the issue of independence for the State of Catalonia may also be a problem.

 

 

 

There is a referendum scheduled in Catalonia, including Barcelona on Oct.1, 2017. The Spanish government has stated that they will not allow the vote to take place, however the local government in Barcelona insists that it will.

 

 

 

We do wonder whether this will be a problem for cruise ships going to and from Barcelona.

 

 

 

I live in southern Spain. A Minority of the Catalans want to succeed from Spain.

 

It's all political bull crap. Covering up for bigger stuff. They try to pull the stunt every couple of years. The Spanish government has brought in reinforcements. They have also already made some arrests of the organizers.

 

IMO nothing will happen. But if I was in charge they would all be in jail for treason. They have no precedent of being independent.

 

 

 

This is my opinion only.

 

 

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[Griller]

I live in southern Spain. A Minority of the Catalans want to succeed from Spain.

 

It's all political bull crap. Covering up for bigger stuff. They try to pull the stunt every couple of years. The Spanish government has brought in reinforcements. They have also already made some arrests of the organizers.

 

IMO nothing will happen. But if I was in charge they would all be in jail for treason. They have no precedent of being independent.

 

 

Actually Catalonia was independent until 1714. Its not a totally different scenario from Scotland and England.

[Corfe Mixture]

Corfe...I think you're British so do you consider the BBC to be an objective source of news?

 

Hmmm. You'll get as many different opinions on that as we have on the Barcelona matter.

 

Yes you are correct, I am British, but I spend most of the summer sailing off the Atlantic coast of France.

 

What I will say is that the left think the BBC has a right wing bias whilst the right think it has a left wing bias so I rather suspect that, on balance, they have probably got it about right.

 

One thing you can be certain about is that the BBC do check their facts very carefully and so whilst we may get opinion, we tend not to get a distorted view of the facts, which means that when I am in France, I usually visit the BBC for my definitive take on the news.

 

I also have an keen interest in US political history (a couple of years ago I relieved a hotel manager in Santa Barbara of a bottle of champagne after I successfully named all the US Presidents in the correct order) and although my personal politics tend towards the right, for some reason I hold the view that the most balanced UK reporting of US politics can be found on the website of the Guardian though, in truth, I have to admit that my perception might well be at variance with the view a US citizen might have of the Guardian's reporting.

[Flamencacha]

Actually Catalonia was independent until 1714. Its not a totally different scenario from Scotland and England.

 

 

 

Really, that's not the locals were taught here. Not that I doubt you.

 

 

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[Practical Planner]

Smart Traveler app will help keep you up to date re current conditions in a country. Cruise lines don't want liability for taking passengers places they will have problems getting them out. Travel insurance always a good idea as a back up plan to get home.

 

 

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[Griller]

Really, that's not the locals were taught here. Not that I doubt you.

 

 

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History is written by the victors.

 

In 1714, the War of Spanish Succession ended Catalan autonomy, with power ceded to Spain under the Nueva Planta decrees. From 1932, the Generalitat of Catalonia was revived and the region achieved greater autonomy but the 1938 Nationalist victory in the Spanish Civil War led by General Francisco Franco greatly reduced Catalonia's power once more. Franco's death in 1975 led to the restoration of democracy in Spain and the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 1979. Catalan political parties concentrated on further autonomy rather than independence.

The 2006 Statute of Autonomy supplanted the 1979 legislation, but parts of it were ruled unconstitutional by the Spanish High Court of Justice in 2010. In November 2015, president Carles Puigdemont announced a referendum on independence, to be held on 1 October 2017.

[Flamencacha]

History is written by the victors.

 

 

 

In 1714, the War of Spanish Succession ended Catalan autonomy, with power ceded to Spain under the Nueva Planta decrees. From 1932, the Generalitat of Catalonia was revived and the region achieved greater autonomy but the 1938 Nationalist victory in the Spanish Civil War led by General Francisco Franco greatly reduced Catalonia's power once more. Franco's death in 1975 led to the restoration of democracy in Spain and the Statute of Autonomy of Catalonia of 1979. Catalan political parties concentrated on further autonomy rather than independence.

 

The 2006 Statute of Autonomy supplanted the 1979 legislation, but parts of it were ruled unconstitutional by the Spanish High Court of Justice in 2010. In November 2015, president Carles Puigdemont announced a referendum on independence, to be held on 1 October 2017.

 

 

 

But is that the real deal? I am kidding, next time I will do my research.

 

My sincere opinion is they can go, after they take out the industry Spain invested in the area.

 

But thank you, for the info.

 

 

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[grapau27]

No crisis in Barcelona.

I have been going to Spain for 50 years and they have had problems with Basque Seperatists as well but we have never felt vulnerable in Spain and certainly not in Barcelona.

 

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[Kingofcool1947]

No it will not be a problem. Don't know what the papers are saying over on your side of the pond, but why do you even think there will be a problem?

 

The Catalonian Independence movement is committed to achieving its objective by peaceful means.

 

Only issue will be if the police decide to get violent with those people who turn up to vote in what the Spanish Gov't has declared to be an illegal referendum.

 

These forces are being brought to stop people from voting not to prevent rioting etc.

 

Nobody will trouble visitors unless you try to vote.

 

As others have said this is all 3 weeks before you arrive and any confrontation between the authorities and those wishing to vote will cease as soon as the polls close.

 

 

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So there are no worries that a bomb will be set off in any of the popular tourist areas? I will myself be relieved.

[LondonTowner]

Bombs can go off anywhere at any time. Who knows where and when. I live in central London and very rarely think about it unless there has been a recent incident.

 

All European cities have a visible police/military presence these days, not just Barcelona. There are also hundreds of security in civvies that you don't see. The majority of the population feel reassured that they are there.

 

 

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