Unfair booking policies

[Omega1]

I do not believe it needs to be your primary residence, just a genuine residence and in this respect one would expect that you have a bank account and credit card in US dollars with US banks relating to your US address. Many people have property overseas and in my opinion when they stay in those properties they are resident in them. You cannot simply use a friend's address as your residence.

 

Regards John

I used the term'primary residence' because that is what is stated in the Princess t&cs. I would imagine anyone who had the kind of evidence you cite would meet the residency requirements.

[antsp]

Absolutely true, no doubt - it happened to a friend of my brother. It's unfortunate you doubt my word.

Being able to book Princess cruises with a US ta was possible years ago - but not now. Unless you are part of the 'legacy' group referred to above.

 

You just call Princess catain circle in the USA and change your address with them before you book, honestly its as simple as that. The part time agent checking you in has no idea where you live nor cares

[Grego]

This will be great news to crew who work very hard in expectation of gratuities.

 

Others have made pronouncements about leaving, only to return.

I wish you honesty and integrity.

 

Amen!

[antsp]

Amen!

Lost me on above

[thinfool]

Absolutely true, no doubt - it happened to a friend of my brother. It's unfortunate you doubt my word.

Being able to book Princess cruises with a US ta was possible years ago - but not now. Unless you are part of the 'legacy' group referred to above.

 

I do not doubt your account.

 

What I find curious is that I have never been challenged for my home address on any of the 15 or so cruises that I have boarded. (in the US, UK, Italy, Argentina, Canada). All I have ever had to do is show my passport, which does not include a home address, only birthdate, citizenship, etc.

 

Even when we booked a special fare for our state of residence, no proof was required when we checked in for the cruise.

[antsp]

I do not doubt your account.

 

What I find curious is that I have never been challenged for my home address on any of the 15 or so cruises that I have boarded. (in the US, UK, Italy, Argentina, Canada). All I have ever had to do is show my passport, which does not include a home address, only birthdate, citizenship, etc.

 

Even when we booked a special fare for our state of residence, no proof was required when we checked in for the cruise.

 

Exactly

[Omega1]

I do not doubt your account.

 

What I find curious is that I have never been challenged for my home address on any of the 15 or so cruises that I have boarded. (in the US, UK, Italy, Argentina, Canada). All I have ever had to do is show my passport, which does not include a home address, only birthdate, citizenship, etc.

 

Even when we booked a special fare for our state of residence, no proof was required when we checked in for the cruise.

 

Sorry, I can't account for how it happened, only that it did!

It must be an extremely rare occurrence- it's the only case I am aware of.

This person admits that they misrepresented them self to a US ta in giving a fake (friend's) address. If folk wish to use this strategy, fine, but be aware of this cautionary tale.

[RDC1]

Evidence please.

 

Annie

Here is one example of how the protection laws in the UK might impact the flexibility of the cruise line. Under UK law a buyer is entitled to receive the exact room they book, and all of the benefits described at time of booking, and must approve all changes. Now if a cruise line were to allow a change then they would need a system that documents to a legal standard the approval of the change. Mostly likely a signed document approving the change. Otherwise someone could file a claim that they booked room x with benefits y but they got room z without some of the original benefits and were charged more money. They would have the original booking paperwork and could say that they did not approve the change. The Princess system is not set up to provide such a legal trail, since it is not an issue in most of their markets, and it would be very expensive to build it. It is much easier and less expensive for them to solve the problem by just following a policy of no changes where such a law applies.

[RDC1]

We usually book cruise only so this protection is not relevant to us, although it will be to those who book a package

 

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Actually it is relevent since a cruise, by nature, includes both transport and over night accommodation. Thus meeting the necessary requirements for the law to apply.

 

Easy to confirm via intenet search. Also a reason why UK passenger contracts are written with in terms of that law and are different from the US contracts.

[RDC1]

It obviously pays to keep on trying. Spoke to someone else this morning who was in the UK (we seem to go through to the US outside of office hours) and have been able to pay the £100 admin charge (£50 per person) to change to today’s offer. We have lost the OBC associated with the original booking but kept the FCC OBC. Overall we have saved £300. Feeling much happier now :D

That makes sense the payment of a change fee would both cover the increased regulatory risk as well as documenting buyer approval.

[nomad098]

Here is one example of how the protection laws in the UK might impact the flexibility of the cruise line. Under UK law a buyer is entitled to receive the exact room they book, and all of the benefits described at time of booking, and must approve all changes. Now if a cruise line were to allow a change then they would need a system that documents to a legal standard the approval of the change. Mostly likely a signed document approving the change. Otherwise someone could file a claim that they booked room x with benefits y but they got room z without some of the original benefits and were charged more money. They would have the original booking paperwork and could say that they did not approve the change. The Princess system is not set up to provide such a legal trail, since it is not an issue in most of their markets, and it would be very expensive to build it. It is much easier and less expensive for them to solve the problem by just following a policy of no changes where such a law applies.

 

This is not quite accurate

 

The regulations do not state that you should receive the stateroom number you book. Nor does the cruise contract.

 

Your stateroom number is not guaranteed by either the law or the cruise contract.

 

What the law does say is that if you book a type of stateroom at a certain category you should recieve that type and category stateroom as the minimum or higher including any added benifits as offered with your booking.

 

You can be moved or choose to be move to a lower category but this must be agreed by both parties.

 

The regulations where transposed into EU law as a directive yet booking terms and conditions vary by memeber states.

 

As an example NCL who have a UK and EU office.

 

UK deposit on NCL was £150pp non refundable -- On NCL EU 10% of cost non refundable

UK cannot change rooms without admin charge -- EU you can

UK final payment 56 days -- EU 30 days

 

As you can see UK/EU law is the same but implementation is different based on member states.

 

There is nothing in the law that requires deposits to be non refundable

Cruiselines choose to make the deposit non refundable because the law allows them to make them non refundable as part of the contract. It is a choice by the cruiselines not a requirement.

 

The same goes for price drops and moving rooms within category this is a choice by the cruiselines and is not something imposed on them by the law.

 

There is an extra cost involved with all cruiselines selling in the UK/EU.

They must put up a bond (no cost to company it just means they can not use the cash) or pay for insurance, this covers customers if the company goes belly up and fails

 

The cruiselines could offer most of the same deals and perks as the US but they choose not to.

 

There are many older posts on cruisecritic about UK/EU customers recieving price drops but when the cruiselines realised there was no legal requirement they chose not to.

[anniegb]

Here is one example of how the protection laws in the UK might impact the flexibility of the cruise line. Under UK law a buyer is entitled to receive the exact room they book, and all of the benefits described at time of booking, and must approve all changes. Now if a cruise line were to allow a change then they would need a system that documents to a legal standard the approval of the change. Mostly likely a signed document approving the change. Otherwise someone could file a claim that they booked room x with benefits y but they got room z without some of the original benefits and were charged more money. They would have the original booking paperwork and could say that they did not approve the change. The Princess system is not set up to provide such a legal trail, since it is not an issue in most of their markets, and it would be very expensive to build it. It is much easier and less expensive for them to solve the problem by just following a policy of no changes where such a law applies.

 

Sorry that is not evidence.

 

The reason Princess charge non-North American cruisers more is greed - IMO.

 

Annie

[RocketMan275]

Sorry that is not evidence.

 

The reason Princess charge non-North American cruisers more is greed - IMO.

 

Annie

If greed were the motive, then they would charge all cruisers more - IMO.

[anniegb]

If greed were the motive, then they would charge all cruisers more - IMO.

 

I will assume you are from North America.

 

You enjoy the privileges/benefits of the largest market.

 

Maybe they charge UK cruisers more to recover the fine levied on Princess for discharging in UK waters??

 

Annie

[Omega1]

It's sad that threads like this very often descend to us v them.

In my opinion, the reason Princess have the policies they do in the UK is simply because the market will stand it. All companies push the boundaries- if Princess policies were so detrimental then bookings would dry up and Princess would respond.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of UK Princess cruisers have no knowledge of booking conditions in the US and accept what they get as the norm.

[RocketMan275]

I will assume you are from North America.

 

You enjoy the privileges/benefits of the largest market.

 

Maybe they charge UK cruisers more to recover the fine levied on Princess for discharging in UK waters??

 

Annie

So, 'greed' isn't the reason for the differences in policies?

[suekay]

It's sad that threads like this very often descend to us v them.

In my opinion, the reason Princess have the policies they do in the UK is simply because the market will stand it. All companies push the boundaries- if Princess policies were so detrimental then bookings would dry up and Princess would respond.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of UK Princess cruisers have no knowledge of booking conditions in the US and accept what they get as the norm.

I think you are right

 

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[majortom10]

It's sad that threads like this very often descend to us v them.

In my opinion, the reason Princess have the policies they do in the UK is simply because the market will stand it. All companies push the boundaries- if Princess policies were so detrimental then bookings would dry up and Princess would respond.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of UK Princess cruisers have no knowledge of booking conditions in the US and accept what they get as the norm.

 

Sorry but thanks to the internet and numerous cruise forums UK Princess cruisers are well aware of booking conditions, cheaper cruises, free gratuities and sip n sail offers that US Princess cruisers receive that we dont get in UK.

[RocketMan275]

Sorry but thanks to the internet and numerous cruise forums UK Princess cruisers are well aware of booking conditions, cheaper cruises, free gratuities and sip n sail offers that US Princess cruisers receive that we dont get in UK.

What is unique to the UK market that allows Princess to treat UK customers differently?

[Omega1]

Sorry but thanks to the internet and numerous cruise forums UK Princess cruisers are well aware of booking conditions, cheaper cruises, free gratuities and sip n sail offers that US Princess cruisers receive that we dont get in UK.

 

That is your opinion - I hold a different view. The vast majority of fellow Brits I speak to on cruises are unaware of Cruisecritic, they book their cruise on the high street or through an online agent. Beyond that, they are blissfully unaware of the booking conditions in other countries.

My sample size is small but I'm content it is representative.

[nomad098]

That is your opinion - I hold a different view. The vast majority of fellow Brits I speak to on cruises are unaware of Cruisecritic, they book their cruise on the high street or through an online agent. Beyond that, they are blissfully unaware of the booking conditions in other countries.

My sample size is small but I'm content it is representative.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Policies and T&C's put in place by the cruise lines are the same ones the big 3 travel agencies put in place many years ago.

 

Somethings are changing like hotel bookings their systems are now more inline with the rest of the world.

 

But in the UK we generally pay a bit more for products than the most of the world just because the market will bear it.

 

Except holiday insurance for some reason it is generally cheaper

 

It is not so much the price that is the problem but the fact that the T&C's are so draconian compared to others.

 

Unfortunately some cruiselines are slowly following the UK method in the US with non refundable deposits softening the blow with slightly lower pricing with no idea if things like price drops and moving cabins will be allowed.

[Rsad]

. . Pm 2pm

 

 

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[antsp]

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

 

Policies and T&C's put in place by the cruise lines are the same ones the big 3 travel agencies put in place many years ago.

 

Somethings are changing like hotel bookings their systems are now more inline with the rest of the world.

 

But in the UK we generally pay a bit more for products than the most of the world just because the market will bear it.

 

Except holiday insurance for some reason it is generally cheaper

 

It is not so much the price that is the problem but the fact that the T&C's are so draconian compared to others.

 

Unfortunately some cruiselines are slowly following the UK method in the US with non refundable deposits softening the blow with slightly lower pricing with no idea if things like price drops and moving cabins will be allowed.

Lots of things in the UK are cheaper than the USA, food in supermarkets is a lot cheaper. Cruise prices on Princess are actually cheaper at the moment and lots of bookings come with $780 obc

[nomad098]

Lots of things in the UK are cheaper than the USA, food in supermarkets is a lot cheaper. Cruise prices on Princess are actually cheaper at the moment and lots of bookings come with $780 obc

 

Granted it's swings and roundabouts.

 

For my upcoming cruise pricing Ruby 31/03/2018 7 night Pacific coastal Balcony BE for 2

 

US TA £1836 + $150 OBC (£1722 after taking off OBC)

UK £1696 no perks

UK TA based in US £1641 no perks

 

I know this is only one cruise and is just an example how consumer law has little to no effect on price.

 

Market forces are king.

As explained by a CEO at MSC "pricing is determined by individual market dynamics "

 

Non refundable deposits is the cruiselines choice

No price drops is the cruiselines choice

Admin charges is the cruiselines choice

Inability For Non North American customers to book in the US is the cruiselines choice

 

There is no law making them make these choices. It is simple a fact that in the UK we have always done holidays this way it is standard practice.

 

So please can we stop this myth popularised by some that UK consumer law is some how responsible for higher prices and the disparity in T&C's between the UK and the US