Anthem and Noro - sailing today?

[familycruzer]

Saw Anthem from a distance as it sailed from Bayonne right on time yesterday, so noro protocol didn't appear to cause a delay. Hopefully the virus has been contained and things will return to normal on the current sailing. That said, I'm not crazy about posts about noro outbreaks and even less happy about media reports of noro outbreaks on cruise ships. I understand and appreciate that folks in the know want to give others a heads up but no one bothers to get his/her knickers in a knot when schools, offices, hospitals and other semi-contained environments experience an outbreak. We've been on several cruises during which there were noro outbreaks, including Celebrity's infamous "Bleach Cruise." The cruise experience is altered to an extent and not for the better - especially with respect to food and beverage; but with the exception of those who fall ill on vacation, no one hates a noro outbreak more than the cruise line. It's disruptive, expensive, a publicity nightmare and people have a tendency to place blame squarely the ship! Cruise ships don't cause viruses, people do - whether on land or at sea. Not sure that's newsworthy. JMHO.

 

 

 

My biggest complaint as someone who now is sick a day after my return is that the ship crew hid the severity of the outbreak from us other than a standard letter. When we see areas roped off, the crew running drink stations, all iPads gone, and people in hazmat suits it's a concern. Yes RC was cleaning everything they could and taking steps to prevent it but some people just are not aware enough to notice. I think announcements should have been made for passengers to be more careful as well. I saw countless people skip the washing stations.

 

 

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[Maraprince]

Im not surprised that noro was present on anthem. It seems ive read many reports here that anthem is understaffed and not that clean. Dirty dishes and glasses everywhere

Most important thing is dont touch ur face anywhere with your hands

 

 

With the large number of passengers on board Anthem (over 4,000+) it is much harder to contain than on a ship with only 1200 passengers. Think about all the people touching the same serving spoons in the buffet and the germs on them!. We have seen adults filling their water bottles directly from water spouts, adding coffee or water to used cups and glasses, putting food back after touching it, eating while going through the buffet lines. The best solution is to have the staff serve passengers rather than letting passengers serve themselves. It would drastically slow down things, but it would be more effective in stopping the spread of Noro. Scrubbing down surfaces helps, but people do not properly wash with soap and water upon entering the buffet area. As much as I hate the hand sanitizers, at least you have to rub in it and no one escapes without a generous dollop of it.

 

While it is certainly true that kids tend to be germ spreaders, many adults are worse at flaunting the rules by not following basic rules for washing your hands after using the bathroom. I wonder why Anthem does not have hand dryers in the public restrooms. This would also help with controlling germs.

 

MARAPRINCE

[nolesrule]

My biggest complaint as someone who now is sick a day after my return is that the ship crew hid the severity of the outbreak from us other than a standard letter. When we see areas roped off, the crew running drink stations, all iPads gone, and people in hazmat suits it's a concern. Yes RC was cleaning everything they could and taking steps to prevent it but some people just are not aware enough to notice. I think announcements should have been made for passengers to be more careful as well. I saw countless people skip the washing stations.

 

 

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Look at the bright side.... you brought a little bit of your vacation home with you. :halo:

 

Seriously though, I think you are right. They probably should have made a better effort to communicate, and more people would have taken more precautions, though it still wouldn't have stopped the slobs. I assumed everyone got the November 7th letter in their cabin, but apparently that wasn't the case.

 

My understanding is that it hit somewhere between 8% and 10% of guests and crew combined, which while a lot isn't nearly as bad as the outbreaks that make the news. This one apparently wasn't newsworthy. I haven't been able to find any articles online yet, and there were no news crews waiting to interview passengers when we got off the ship, though perhaps they just didn't want to stand outside in 30 degrees.

[familycruzer]

Look at the bright side.... you brought a little bit of your vacation home with you. :halo:

 

 

 

Seriously though, I think you are right. They probably should have made a better effort to communicate, and more people would have taken more precautions, though it still wouldn't have stopped the slobs. I assumed everyone got the November 7th letter in their cabin, but apparently that wasn't the case.

 

 

 

My understanding is that it hit somewhere between 8% and 10% of guests and crew combined, which while a lot isn't nearly as bad as the outbreaks that make the news. This one apparently wasn't newsworthy. I haven't been able to find any articles online yet, and there were no news crews waiting to interview passengers when we got off the ship, though perhaps they just didn't want to stand outside in 30 degrees.

 

 

 

I will never forget this cruise :)

 

Speaking of slobs - I saw a woman in Cocoa Cay dig watermelon out of the carvings with her long fingernails, eat it, and go back for me.

 

 

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[mandi_91]

Yep!

 

 

 

 

Airborne? Ok.

 

 

 

 

All it makes me wonder is why people are touching things then putting their hands to their mouths without washing their hands.

 

Nothing like actually experiencing and owning one’s poor hand washing habits to make a true change! Thankfully my son and I had that experience while at home.

 

 

 

I'm not sure if you meant that you don't believe the Notovirus can be airborne?

 

In fact there is actually some research that it can become airborne in a confined area. A confined area such as a large over crowded cruise ship perhaps? It's rare but there is a research study that shows that in some instances 13-2350 viral particles per cubic meter of air. This virus is so contagious that it really on requires 18-20 particles to be come infected. The flu takes about 100-1000 to put that in perspective as to why this is so highly contagious. I agree with you though, people need to wash their hands. I saw adults, who know better than the 1100 children onboard, reaching in the buffet with their grubby dirty fingers to grab food after not washing their hands. Disgusting!

 

 

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[Maraprince]

Douse everyone entering the buffet with globs of hand sanitizer so that they must rub their hands together. This will catch the "make believe" hand washers who only use water on their hands.

 

Don't allow anyone to approach the coffee, water or soft drink stations who is carrying a used cup/glass in their hands. Lower the level of the water spout to prevent passengers from filling their water bottles. Little things that go a long way to halt the spread of Noro once it has started.

 

MARAPRINCE

[lilwun1014]

I would love to know who told you they stopped serving drinks with fruit, as one of the standard sanitation procedures, even when there is no noro, is that all "ready to eat" food, like fruits and vegetables for salads are sanitized before leaving the provisions area.

 

 

The bar tenders told me no fruit in drinks cause of norovirus

[lilwun1014]

Look at the bright side.... you brought a little bit of your vacation home with you. :halo:

 

Seriously though, I think you are right. They probably should have made a better effort to communicate, and more people would have taken more precautions, though it still wouldn't have stopped the slobs. I assumed everyone got the November 7th letter in their cabin, but apparently that wasn't the case.

 

My understanding is that it hit somewhere between 8% and 10% of guests and crew combined, which while a lot isn't nearly as bad as the outbreaks that make the news. This one apparently wasn't newsworthy. I haven't been able to find any articles online yet, and there were no news crews waiting to interview passengers when we got off the ship, though perhaps they just didn't want to stand outside in 30 degrees.

 

 

 

If you go to cruisejunkie.com go to events .theres stuff on there people post about cruises that dont make the news

[Jasukkie]

This could happen anywhere people are in close quarters, but the last two times I got a GI virus I ended up in the hospital on IV fluids so this subject does make me nervous. My next cruise is Anthem in January. Have you seen the movie Contagion? I'm not above a Hazmat suit.

[gaylemh]

If the bartenders weren't wearing gloves during a GI outbreak, that's a problem. They are handling dirty glasses and then clean glasses? Serious opportunity for cross-contamination.

 

If they were wearing gloves, it would be the same as not wearing them, unless they changed gloves with every glass they touched. They get a new drink, and seconds later they are taking old glasses away.

[gaylemh]

Just off the Anthem too. Our cabin steward supplied us with a letter dated 11/3/17 with the same info. He also warned us very distinctly about it when we first met him. Our bathroom reeked of a chemical smell as well as the floor was sticky from a spray. We wondered if someone from our cabin on the last cruise had been afflicted. :o

 

P.S. We heeded the warnings and were okay.

 

I have been on Anthem and other ships many, many times, and whatever they clean the floor with is always sticky, not just during an outbreak. I usually end up wiping the floor with one of my own wipes.

[chengkp75]

If they were wearing gloves, it would be the same as not wearing them, unless they changed gloves with every glass they touched. They get a new drink, and seconds later they are taking old glasses away.

 

That's the thing. They either have to have one bartender who handles dirty glasses, and one who does clean, or they need to reglove frequently, or wash their hands. It's just like the guys washing dishes, if they touch a dirty dish going into the dishwasher, they need to either wash or reglove before they are allowed to touch clean dishes. This is one area where the protocols for mediation of an outbreak tasks the crew heavily, and getting the bar staff to comply is always a trial.

[mjkacmom]

We were on the 10/28 sailing. My husband ended up getting noro but didn’t go to medical so they’re number of cases isn’t correct because I’m sure others didn’t seek medical.

 

We never felt the ship was understaffed or unclean. We didn’t experience dirty dishes and glasses everywhere.

 

There were a TON of younger kids on this sailing. I believe the “kids sail free” was to blame!

Jersey Week, always tons of kids on this sailing even without kids sail free from NJ/NY.

[maria1122]

We boarded the Anthem on oct. 28th and got off nov 12th. Noro was just starting at the end of the first cruise. On the second cruise it got out of hand. We are friendly with the captain and he sat with us Friday morning and you could see worry in his face. He does understand that people do not report it and do not go down to medical. But as far as letting us know we did receive a letter on both cruises and our attendant also told us. Do people expect someone to come and knock on their door to tell them also? Common sense will tell you there is noro when they insist that you was with warm water and soap. This was announced on the all ship speaker many times.

[lbjen]

I don’t know what people expect - even if they knocked on every door and personally informed each and every passenger, there would still be people who thought it didn’t apply to them and not change their habits. They don’t think they’re doing anything wrong to start with, or they wouldn’t be doing it.

[Jerseygirl1416]

Jersey Week, always tons of kids on this sailing even without kids sail free from NJ/NY.

 

This wasn’t Jersey week. It was Halloween week before Jersey week.

 

I also saw someone post a notice they got in their cabin regarding Noro during our sailing but we didn’t get the notice. Why wouldn’t they deliver the notice to all cabins? I did hear one announcement by the Captain about the Noro cases on board.

[NJCruiseCpl]

The bartenders would not wear gloves because they would have to change the gloves with every new customer in order for it to be "sanitary"

 

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[MaryL31]

On Anthem now. Although I am very appreciative of the great effort to keep everyone healthy, I was extremely frustrated in the Windjammer this morning. Every single table that was available was soaking wet-and the chairs were wet, too. I don't know what they are using to wipe everything down with. I guess it may need to sit a few minutes to provide the sanitization effect? Will avoid WJ tomorrow.

[lilwun1014]

On Anthem now. Although I am very appreciative of the great effort to keep everyone healthy, I was extremely frustrated in the Windjammer this morning. Every single table that was available was soaking wet-and the chairs were wet, too. I don't know what they are using to wipe everything down with. I guess it may need to sit a few minutes to provide the sanitization effect? Will avoid WJ tomorrow.

 

 

Are the walls in hallways dripping as well? Friday nov 10th they were ..does anyone have norovirus yet on your sailing?

[dvond]

We were on the 11/4 sailing, knew all about the virus, made sure we washed hands extra and it seemed staff made huge effort to clean extra, sure they stopped fruit in drinks for last 2 days and they had to pour our soda, ehhh not a big deal, they also had no lunch buffet in dining room last day, another minor inconvenience.

 

I had othr issues that bugged me more that this but to each their own

[bob brown]

Holland America has a procedure on its sailings called "Code Orange"....For the first 2 and a half days of each cruise, all food in the buffet's are served by staff....no self service. If there is no evident outbreak on board by that time, they go to normal self service.

It seems to work pretty good....

 

I am sailing on the Anthem cruise on 2 December....I think I will play it safe, and bring some of my own bleach wipes on with me to go over critical area's of my own cabin, just as an extra precaution....;)

[chengkp75]

The bartenders would not wear gloves because they would have to change the gloves with every new customer in order for it to be "sanitary"

 

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No, just like the cooks who plate hundreds of meals wearing the same gloves, or the wait staff that take those meals to several tables, the key is "clean/dirty". As long as you are only handling clean ware and food, you can use the same gloves for multiple customers. Once you touch a contaminated surface (a surface in the galley that hasn't been sanitized within 2 hours, or take dirty dishes away from a table, or a dirty glass off the bar), then you need to reglove or wash before touching clean items again. So, the bartenders would either work in pairs, with one filling orders using clean glasses, and one takes the empty glasses to wash, or the one bartender leaves the empty glasses until there are enough to warrant taking them and regloving or washing hands. It can work, it does work, it is just a pain, and the staff needs to be trained in it, and the ship goes through cases, not boxes, of gloves daily.

[NJCruiseCpl]

Easier said than done! The Anthem was a poorly staffed ship on my sailing considering the amount of passengers. Many of the indoor bars had one bartender. Where I think they could have stepped it up was in the public bathrooms. They were a disgrace! Many toilets not flushed or needing a good cleaning. Nov.4th sailing was sold out with over 1200 kids on board. I am not surprised the outbreak occurred. The staff on board was doing their best with the resources they had. Again u think it comes down to the staff to passenger ratio.

 

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[NJCruiseCpl]

"I think it comes down to staff to passenger ratio"

 

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[Jasukkie]

On Anthem now. Although I am very appreciative of the great effort to keep everyone healthy, I was extremely frustrated in the Windjammer this morning. Every single table that was available was soaking wet-and the chairs were wet, too. I don't know what they are using to wipe everything down with. I guess it may need to sit a few minutes to provide the sanitization effect? Will avoid WJ tomorrow.

 

It's great that they use enough sanitizer to leave it soaking wet like that. Wet time is required to get the job done. You don't want to touch this with bare hands while wet though. Were they treating the chairs and tables after each use, or were you there at the opening?

 

Might be a good time for the covered to-go box discussed in another thread. Not bad for those with balconies.