Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

[davecttr]

In the past I have felt exactly the same Selbourne and I have therefore always paid the auto tip/service charge. However if P&O can pay all their other staff a basic wage which does not need the passengers to top it up to satisfactory level, then why can't it pay all its staff the same way.

More recently the statements being made by P&O about pay and service rewards have suggested that P&O pay all their staff a fair wage, they also state that cash tips are kept by staff, which can and will lead to some staff receiving double tips. In addition there is confusion as to whether P&O make up the auto tip element where passengers have deleted it. All of this leads me to assume that the auto tip is just disappearing into the P&O coffers as part of their revenue stream, but without it adding to their tax liability.

If I am correct then the only ones losing out are those that pay the tips, and as the numbers reduce so they will have to pay more. I am therefore getting off this roundabout and making a saving on my cruise cost, until P&O eventually decide to include gratuities in their fares.

 

That is what we should be asking P&O, the answers if any will be smoke and mirrors

[Expat Cruise]

Easy to find lots of information if you know were to look. Here are some sample pay rates for P & O. I wonder if those so happy to pay these auto fees found out a few pounds from every guest per day went to fund the officers pay would you be so quick to agree? Simple fact is they will not tell us the breakdown so for that reason alone I do not trust the cruise line

 

P&O Cruises Salaries

Updated 28 Aug 2017

 

How much do P&O Cruises employees make? Glassdoor has salaries, wages, tips, bonuses, and hourly pay based upon employee reports and estimates.

 

Job Title Average Base Salaries in (GBP) Low High

 

Waiter - Monthly Contractor

£671 - £778

 

Passenger Services Assistant - Monthly Contractor

£463 - £667

 

Head Waiter - Monthly Contractor

£693 - £807

 

Assistant Bartender - Monthly

£289 - £315

 

Photographer - Monthly Contractor

£651 - £692

 

Deck Housekeeper - Monthly Contractor

£1K - £1K

[cruisecrew1974]

The only reason crew don't protest is because they are gagged.

 

Can P&O please answer few questions.

 

What happens when a crew loses bonus because of a disciplinary warning...where does the money go. Certainly not to the intended crew

 

When the crew don't achieve the CSQ Targets....the crew don't get CSQ Bonus. So where does the money go

 

Why has P&O decreased salary of Filipino & Indian crew from April

 

How P&O intends to pay crew when guests pay in pounds and crew paid in US dollars..

What exchange rate is applied

 

Why suddenly a lot of old crew are leaving en masse after working for P&O for long time

 

There is more to it than u can imagine

 

Crew will not tell u straight forward. They will only tell u anonymously

[Expat Cruise]

The only reason crew don't protest is because they are gagged.

 

I live in the Philippines and talk to crew member,s ex crew members from several cruise lines. Some of my wife's extended family work for cruise lines.

 

They all say the same things. They are not allowed to talk about pay levels to a guest or explain anything but the official PR the company gives them. Two things gets a crew member thrown off the ship next port, personal contact with guest: Sexual, in guest cabins (not work related), any personal private time with guest, or talking about behind the scenes company policy or operations.

 

What happens when a crew loses bonus because of a disciplinary warning...where does the money go. Certainly not to the intended crew

They do not tell the crew but with creative accounting it could go to things like paying transportation to send terminated crew home. Now this may sound OK except part of the contract is to pay the crews way to and from the ship.

 

When the crew don't achieve the CSQ Targets....the crew don't get CSQ Bonus. So where does the money go

Again a good accounting team could move these funds into holding accounts, charge fees for holding and accounting, and then put the left over money to other places. Like new hire signing bonus... no one knows because they will not be honest and tell guest.

 

Why has P&O decreased salary of Filipino & Indian crew from April.

 

This I can answer directly from a crew Filipino crew member, (again not while working but here at home) The new pay plan shows much more projected from the service fee pool, so the line says a lower base pay is better. The problem is most Filipinos are hard working and simple people they cannot understand the concept of take less base to maybe make more..... So they have left the line.

 

How P&O intends to pay crew when guests pay in pounds and crew paid in US dollars.. What exchange rate is applied

Another great way to stick the screws to the crew, first over charge on the credit card processing fee, included foreign currency conversion fees even if the lines does pay them. Process through a holding company that is paid a fee,. The company can take several points off the top and no crew member could question it. And then more games with the conversion rates. In the end even if everyone paid they could "lose" 50% or more of the money collected as they wash it from department and account to account.

 

Why suddenly a lot of old crew are leaving en masse after working for P&O for long time

Again the Filipinos I have talked to have been able to based upon work history get land based jobs outside of the country that pay well.

 

Crew will not tell u straight forward. They will only tell u anonymously

 

 

Yes you are right they will not tell most guest because they are afraid of the company. Again warm nice simple hard working people that do not even have passports in hand the cruise line holds them. The company works them and uses them. But it is not the responsibility of the guest to correct these wrongs with money.

 

 

Believe the information or don't believe it, I will not prove any of this as I will not put others in trouble. Pay the services fees or don't I never will and will use my funds to reward staff as I feel is correct.

[cruisecrew1974]

The only reason crew don't protest is because they are gagged.

 

I live in the Philippines and talk to crew member,s ex crew members from several cruise lines. Some of my wife's extended family work for cruise lines.

 

They all say the same things. They are not allowed to talk about pay levels to a guest or explain anything but the official PR the company gives them. Two things gets a crew member thrown off the ship next port, personal contact with guest: Sexual, in guest cabins (not work related), any personal private time with guest, or talking about behind the scenes company policy or operations.

 

What happens when a crew loses bonus because of a disciplinary warning...where does the money go. Certainly not to the intended crew

 

They do not tell the crew but with creative accounting it could go to things like paying transportation to send terminated crew home. Now this may sound OK except part of the contract is to pay the crews way to and from the ship.

 

When the crew don't achieve the CSQ Targets....the crew don't get CSQ Bonus. So where does the money go

 

Again a good accounting team could move these funds into holding accounts, charge fees for holding and accounting, and then put the left over money to other places. Like new hire signing bonus... no one knows because they will not be honest and tell guest.

 

Why has P&O decreased salary of Filipino & Indian crew from April.

 

This I can answer directly from a crew Filipino crew member, (again not while working but here at home) The new pay plan shows much more projected from the service fee pool, so the line says a lower base pay is better. The problem is most Filipinos are hard working and simple people they cannot understand the concept of take less base to maybe make more..... So they have left the line.

 

How P&O intends to pay crew when guests pay in pounds and crew paid in US dollars.. What exchange rate is applied

 

Another great way to stick the screws to the crew, first over charge on the credit card processing fee, included foreign currency conversion fees even if the lines does pay them. Process through a holding company that is paid a fee,. The company can take several points off the top and no crew member could question it. And then more games with the conversion rates. In the end even if everyone paid they could "lose" 50% or more of the money collected as they wash it from department and account to account.

 

Why suddenly a lot of old crew are leaving en masse after working for P&O for long time

 

Again the Filipinos I have talked to have been able to based upon work history get land based jobs outside of the country that pay well.

 

Crew will not tell u straight forward. They will only tell u anonymously

 

 

Yes you are right they will not tell most guest because they are afraid of the company. Again warm nice simple hard working people that do not even have passports in hand the cruise line holds them. The company works them and uses them. But it is not the responsibility of the guest to correct these wrongs with money.

 

 

Believe the information or don't believe it, I will not prove any of this as I will not put others in trouble. Pay the services fees or don't I never will and will use my funds to reward staff as I feel is correct.

 

Spot On....most of it.

 

By including tips in the fare it will only legalize the looting.

 

I am surprised people blindly pay tips not knowing whether a crew is really receiving them

 

Ask P&O for evidence, they will never give it.

 

So on one side P&O increases service charge by £1 and decreases crew wages

[cruisecrew1974]

When the automatic gratuities started it was £3.1 per day per guest now it is £7 an increase of 126%

 

But the crew wages have remained same for those particular ranks P&O is talking about

 

So 126% gone where.

 

To the shareholders????

[insanemagnet]

When the automatic gratuities started it was £3.1 per day per guest now it is £7 an increase of 126%

 

But the crew wages have remained same for those particular ranks P&O is talking about

 

So 126% gone where.

 

To the shareholders????

To the shareholders - yes in an indirect way.

 

For each £1 increase in service charge and £1 extra distributed through the service reward scheme there is a £1 decrease in base pay and £1 more profit for P&O as the wage bill has gone down.

[Expat Cruise]

This thread is about P & O Cruisesbut I do not think many here really understand the effects smallchanges have on corporate profits. Even moving a a single dollar orpound from the company side to the guest results big positive changesto profit.

 

 

Review here what the CEO of NorwegianCruise lines said when speaking to a group of other cruiseprofessionals. While not directly talking about daily service feesthe principles applied and used are the same.

 

 

How much effect can small fees changeshave? A single one dollar or pound change in the daily service feeresults in ,millions to the company. If they can shift the paymentfrom the corporation onto the guest same thing happens. These arethe real reasons that the fees are being pushed so hard, it is allabout money. Has nothing to do with the company helping the crew,everything to do with the corporation helping itself.

 

 

Here is some statements made in 2015by NCL CEO Del Rio

 

 

“we have looked across the fleet toidentify areas where marginal changes...can be implemented to improveperformance. A few examples include a 6.7% increase in beverageprices, the introduction of a normal room service fee and lowercost..... To put into perspective how these small changes can add upquickly, every dollar increase in yield translates to approximately15 million to the bottom line.”

 

 

P & O is not as large so theresults will be smaller but still real money.

[davecttr]

I wonder how Carnival tolerate P&O Australia's financial model as they don't have 'tips' so that wage bill, all of it, has to go in the companies accounts?

[Expat Cruise]

I wonder how Carnival tolerate P&O Australia's financial model as they don't have 'tips' so that wage bill, all of it, has to go in the companies accounts?

 

It is only the passengers booking from Austria accounts, if you book through the US Site they charge the service fee. On paper it is handle the same way any free service charge is. As a advertising promotion the US Site sometimes includes the service fee this is the same thing.

 

So it the service fee for the cabin 7 days (2 Passengers) is $210 a week, the US cruise is priced $105 less per passenger, the AU cruise is $110.00 more. The real question here is do they transfer the money to the crew funds or just give the crew less?

[grapau27]

I wonder how Carnival tolerate P&O Australia's financial model as they don't have 'tips' so that wage bill, all of it, has to go in the companies accounts?

It would be very interesting but my wifes cousin lives in Australia and she said cruises were more expensive over there so they have done what many here have asked,Put gratuitys onto the cruise price.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[insanemagnet]

I wonder how Carnival tolerate P&O Australia's financial model as they don't have 'tips' so that wage bill, all of it, has to go in the companies accounts?

They tolerate it for the same reason that NCL introduced inclusive fares for customers based in the UK and Europe booking their cruises.

 

NCL's UK and European customers were not paying the optional service charge so they had no option but to include it in the price.

 

Same with P&O Australia and their local customers.

[mary heyworth]

I'm sorry I disagree with you all. Perhaps I'm a lot older but I was brought up to tip people. My parents always tipped. Yes I am old enough to remember when a young boy would deliver our groceries on his bike ( just like Granville in 'Open all hours) He and the boy who delivered our fruit and veg would get a tip from my mother every week. My husband and I always tip in restaurants, hairdressers etc. It's not just an American thing but obviously young people today seem bewildered by it, just as I'm bewildered by the non-tipping generation.[/quote

 

I am certainly not suggesting that we do not tip anyone for any service we regard deserves it.

I to am of the generation that was brought up to tip people in the service sector and myself and my husband also always tip the hairdressers, bar staff in pubs and also restaurants. I would however, not give a tip if I considered the service was below acceptable. I would pay the bill unless everything had gone wrong but not tip.

Perhaps you misunderstood but what I am trying to say is why do the cruise companies firstly tell us what we have to tip and also put it on our bill ? I remember when this first happened several years ago on a Princess cruise. I intended as usual to tip at the end of the cruise if I thought we had received good service in the envelopes that were provided. However, I was informed that this charge would be included on my final account but I could go to see the Purser and get it removed if I wished. I decided to do that and had to stand in the main atrium in a queue especially set up for this reason on the first sea day. Then run the gauntlet of other passengers looking on to see who were the meanies removing the tips. There was even a sign notifying where to stand for this reason. I appreciate this is not done now and a bit more discrete.

We spend quite a lot of time on holiday in hotels in the UK and abroad and we dont get a service charge or tip added on there so why the cruise ships ?

I still stand by my origional point that the Care Staff in the Nursing Home that I work at are paid the minimum wage and dont expect or get tips! Someone comented if you dont like the system dont go on cruises. My answer to that is if you dont like the working conditions and the pay for that dont work on a cruise ship !!

[Expat Cruise]

The reason is still going on is simple the corporation is making millions by playing daily service fee con game. I for one will never submit to this, it is my money and my choice to tip as I see fit. No one has the right to tell anyone that they must pay these voluntary daily service fees.

 

Really do not care how hard the cruise lines make it to remove these fees have always found a way and always will. And yes I really hope the other side is upset by this, post how mean and nasty I am, I fight for what I know is right. Nothing on this earth will ever get me to change my opinion about this subject. So please keep trying it only makes me fight harder.

[grapau27]

The reason is still going on is simple the corporation is making millions by playing daily service fee con game. I for one will never submit to this, it is my money and my choice to tip as I see fit. No one has the right to tell anyone that they must pay these voluntary daily service fees.

 

Really do not care how hard the cruise lines make it to remove these fees have always found a way and always will. And yes I really hope the other side is upset by this, post how mean and nasty I am, I fight for what I know is right. Nothing on this earth will ever get me to change my opinion about this subject. So please keep trying it only makes me fight harder.

That is why service charges should be included in the cruise fare like NCL and Marella then everyone can feel free to tip or not without people being judgemental.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[cruisecrew1974]

My answer to that is if you dont like the working conditions and the pay for that dont work on a cruise ship !!

 

You ain't no nothing about cruise life. Some people don't have another option. This is why cruise lines exploit people from Asian Countries.

 

Why don't you see British waiters on british cruise lines? Because they would have to pay minimum wage to them around £2350 per month. That would raise the cruise price for people like you.

 

You can cruise only because you get to pay a cheap cruise price because cruise lines pay the crew low wages.

[jeanlyon]

None of the cruise lines to my knowledge use British staff as waiters, cabin staff. There are a few obvious reasons why!! Brits wouldn't work those hours with a smile on their face for a start.

[kalos]

I was brought up to tip people.

My answer to that is if you dont like the working conditions and the pay for that dont work on a cruise ship !![/quote]

 

I think the poster Mary was possibly lost a little in what she was trying to say.

To me her points are she does tip and if after that the staff still dislike the job ,then it's up to them to try to change it or it's time to walk away. She cannot do any more than what she is doing to support you.

 

 

 

You ain't no nothing about cruise life. Some people don't have another option. This is why cruise lines exploit people from Asian Countries.

 

I do have a couple of friends who are EX crew one who was P&O a few years back way before Auto Service Charge came along .He too felt that he was exploited when he and a lot of his friends were pushed out of a job (his words) to make way for Stewards sourced from overseas.

P&O way of saving money at the time. He now works the UK ferries.

When you say Some people don't have any other option the truth is they do but it may not be as good as where they are now and I do really sympathise with them.

A few weeks ago the multinational household name firm I work for called a meeting .

The MD told us corporate want us to shut down (not for the first time) a couple of factories overseas sending part to the USA and the UK.

The times I have seen grown men & women with family's to support crying in their co workers arms ... Not good at all .

Then the jobs that come back here are expected to be absorbed into the workforce.

Yes more work and no more pay . The MD just says " Anyone who does not like it feel free to leave"

This will resonate on here with a lot of posters , who work dam hard to afford to go on a cruise.

Not all cruises are cheap as you imply in your post .

Just Highlighting the fact that life is not always a bed of roses on dry land .

My other point is you go onto say Not sure if this is aimed at all of us or at Mary but you say

"You ain't no nothing about cruise life " .

 

With a name like Cruise Crew (sorry if I am off the mark) but if I am not and you have any inside

information about the Service Reward program of P&O . Maybe you could enlighten us as to how

it works as I am sure a lot of us on this forum would like to know the real story behind this Service Charge and put it to bed for once and for all.

 

 

 

Why don't you see British waiters on british cruise lines? Because they would have to pay minimum wage to them around £2350 per month. That would raise the cruise price for people like you.

 

You can cruise only because you get to pay a cheap cruise price because cruise lines pay the crew low wages.

 

Maybe soon P&O will follow TUI and a few others who's staff seem happy.

[Eglesbrech]

None of the cruise lines to my knowledge use British staff as waiters, cabin staff. There are a few obvious reasons why!! Brits wouldn't work those hours with a smile on their face for a start.

 

While I know where you are coming from I don’t agree.

 

All things are relative and while UK workers benefit the from minimum wage relatively they are no better off than someone from a country where the cost of living, rents etc are lower.

 

A lot of people in the UK work very, very long hours for very little pay, no tips and keep a smile on their face because if they didn’t they would lose their job. Add to that lack of job security with zero hours contracts etc and we are far too quick to knock down our own. Ask the average care assistant how many hours they work (while maintaining kindness and standards) and you may be surprised.

 

Most of us, me included, live on our middle class bubble where we own our home, can afford a cruise holiday and have a salary rather than a zero hours, minimum wage, insecure, long hours, no sick pay or pension job.

 

People ring their hands over cruise staff but there are people at home who work just as long and just as hard -and yes they still smile.

[jeanlyon]

Actually you are probably right. I hadn't thought of that. My mind was just on cruise ships.

[kalos]

While I know where you are coming from I don’t agree.

 

All things are relative and while UK workers benefit the from minimum wage relatively they are no better off than someone from a country where the cost of living, rents etc are lower.

 

A lot of people in the UK work very, very long hours for very little pay, no tips and keep a smile on their face because if they didn’t they would lose their job. Add to that lack of job security with zero hours contracts etc and we are far too quick to knock down our own. Ask the average care assistant how many hours they work (while maintaining kindness and standards) and you may be surprised.

 

Most of us, me included, live on our middle class bubble where we own our home, can afford a cruise holiday and have a salary rather than a zero hours, minimum wage, insecure, long hours, no sick pay or pension job.

 

People ring their hands over cruise staff but there are people at home who work just as long and just as hard -and yes they still smile.

 

 

I think we are on the same wave length .

[AnOnymously]

Looks like a RESULT!

 

Had this from PO regarding that infamous letter

I can confirm we do not send anything to the cabins asking you to change your mind. It is entirely your choice if you wish to remove or amend the gratuities, please visit reception at the start of your cruise where they will have a form for you to complete.

 

or is it the left hand not knowing what the right is doing?

Hope not.

 

Anyone had one since that first fatal batch?

[jeanlyon]

It was all over Facebook, so hopefully they have taken notice!

[cruisecrew1974]

Wonder how many in UK works 300- 390 hours a month without a day off for 9 months

 

Things can only be shared anonymously

[kalos]

Wonder how many in UK works 300- 390 hours a month without a day off for 9 months

 

Things can only be shared anonymously

 

Not many and as I Said Some people don't have any other option the truth is they do but it may not be as good as where they are now and I do really sympathise with them.

No one is saying the job is easy and the staff are away from home a long time from family.

 

The cruise passengers do understand the hours and time away issues cruise staff have,

that is why they e-mail P&O and protest through other media outlets saying pay them a real wage

just like everyone else who works a P&O ship.

As for the hours apart from P&O taking more staff on I have no answer for you.

Only the other week one of the staff I was talking to told me that they could have gone home on leave after our cruise but wanted to stay on and do a full 9 month stint.

They had done a few years doing this .They were going to do one more contract and then go home and set up a job being their own boss. So that tells me the 9 month is not mandatory and even that person said P&O and others have long Queues of people wishing to join them .

 

As for "Things can only be shared anonymously" ...This is what this site is ..

 

You do not know me just as I do not know you .