Single thread - New website issues and discussions

[Haboob]

The old website was horrendous on smartphones and small tablets. Being able to market your products and services to those researching their vacations on devices with modern form-factors is critical for the future of today's businesses. It is not just a matter of reaching the target market, the 18-35 age demographic, but also a matter of reaching others who don't know much about your brand and are using the Internet to research their vacation options. Those customers are the future of the cruise line's customer base, but more importantly will likely disproportionately represent the future of the cruise line's revenue stream.

 

The cruise line doesn't count how many times you cruise with them, something which many passengers seem to think matters. Instead, the cruise line counts how many more dollars you spend as compared to the number of dollars you cost them in terms of cost of service. That's why you'll see companies deliberately show some lower profit customer the door through both obvious and non-obvious means. (The best recent example of this was when AT&T announced in 2012 that it was going to turn off GSM radios nationwide, effectively ending service then used by 8.4 million customers. AT&T's profit margin is roughly 19.25%, so they evidently know what they're doing.)

 

However, reaching the customers you really want to reach is only part of it. It is also a matter of reaching customers at all. Google factors how well a website works on modern, mobile device form-factors into its search results. In other words, if someone searches for "Caribbean cruise" what comes up first is Royal Caribbean, because they changed their website to serve modern, mobile device form-factors a while ago. Google accounts for over 5.7 billion searches conducted on the web daily. Changing your website to satisfy Google's standards (which is part of what SEO is) is critical to successful business today.

 

This underscores the point that the website's main purpose is to sell new customers on the cruise line. Whatever the website offers to returning passengers it does so as a secondary consideration. Returning passengers already have preconceived notions about what cruise line they want to be on, and those preconceived notions will matter more than the website. Only a very few people would care more about the cruise line's website rather than whether the service staff treated them well on their last cruise.

 

What we're seeing in this thread are complaints, but what is really important to the cruise line are purchasing decisions: For new customers, the website is going to matter, and the website is going to tell them the story that the cruise line wants to tell them. They're likely not going to care about what's no longer there because they won't know. For returning passengers, they're going to choose the cruise line again or not based mostly on their last experience on-board rather than anything as trivial as the website.

 

"Walk and chew gum" is the New Coke pratfall.

 

The point is that HAL did not face an either-or choice: (1) HAL had a website that worked well

on a large-screen device, (2) HAL sorely lacked a web presence that was useable on a small-

screen device, (3) HAL can easily tell if a HTTP request comes from a large- or small-screen

device, and (4) rather than spend ...what? 4? man-hours for code to detect whether a customer

is using a large-screen device and deliver the "old website" or a small-screen device and deliver

the "new website", HAL chose to abandon a significant portion of their current clientele.

 

Time will tell how many of their current clientele will return the favor. Anecdotally, I know that

while I and my DW are enjoying a NS later this month, we've also just booked a T/A elsewhere.

Not "mad". Just "exercising our right to enjoy the best service".

 

Call me a ...discerning consumer? :halo:

[danb35]

The point is that HAL did not face an either-or choice

Yeah, they really did. The old website wasn't static, and neither is the new--any such site is going to need regular ongoing maintenance. Your suggestion, while superficially easy to implement, carries with the ongoing burden of maintaining two sites rather than one, which doesn't seem practical in the least.

[bUU]

Yeah, they really did. The old website wasn't static, and neither is the new--any such site is going to need regular ongoing maintenance. Your suggestion, while superficially easy to implement, carries with the ongoing burden of maintaining two sites rather than one, which doesn't seem practical in the least.

The attempts by some people to place their own personal preferences over that of prospective customers, the business and a clear and objective understanding of the marketplace is a quick and dirty excuse for bashing the cruise line but it doesn't have any legitimacy from a business standpoint.

 

To be fair, if you consider the best knowledge about what's happening and why it is happening, and take them to their logical consequences, it goes to a place where a lot of current customers are marginalized (new customers prioritized above old) and taken for granted (old customers are understood to purchase anyway, regardless of their grievances, and gains and loses of these customers to/from competitors is a wash), not just by this cruise line but really by all the cruise lines at this price point. No one wants to think that there are logical reasons for their being treated in that manner, so the reactions we're seeing are understandable. Going back to the AT&T example, this sort of thing happens all the time, and more and more as time goes on and the marketplace get more dynamic... but the AT&T customers affected stamped their feet claiming it was a mistake by AT&T. Obviously, it wasn't, but that didn't stop the claims that it was.

 

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

Edited May 10, 2018 by bUU

[Haboob]

Yeah, they really did. The old website wasn't static, and neither is the new--any such site is going to need regular ongoing maintenance. Your suggestion, while superficially easy to implement, carries with the ongoing burden of maintaining two sites rather than one, which doesn't seem practical in the least.

 

Been there, done that, yeah, even got the T-Shirt. ...in a safety-of-flight environment.

[innlady1]

So, can someone please tell me where to find the deck plans on the new site? From either my desktop or I-phone.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OlsSalt]

Before HAL tosses out all the old bathwater in pursuit of these illusive and ill-defined new future customers, they may want to consider those who have very high cruise credit days - sailing days plus onboard spending -- and still have another decade of cruise choices to make.

 

We remain their current and future demographics, not just as you say only creatures with our own "personal preferences". They shouldn't be alienating us. They should at least make it not impossible to find my cabin number and the ship's deck plan on their new website.

 

New Coke.

[thinfool]

So, can someone please tell me where to find the deck plans on the new site? From either my desktop or I-phone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

from my desktop...

 

HollandAmerica.com>The Experience>Our Ships>ShipName>Scroll Down to Deck Plans

[Haboob]

from my desktop...

 

HollandAmerica.com>The Experience>Our Ships>ShipName>Scroll Down to Deck Plans

 

Yep. Small-screen, too.

 

Which brings up the point that HAL has decided to use ">" to indicate the preceding is a link

in violation of W3C Recommendation 2.4.4.

[WeissGal]

from my desktop...

 

HollandAmerica.com>The Experience>Our Ships>ShipName>Scroll Down to Deck Plans

 

 

I don't see anything like Deck Plans, just activities and find a cruise.

[OlsSalt]

I don't see anything like Deck Plans, just activities and find a cruise.

 

I also want the deck plan in the same location as my current reservation information that also includes my cabin number ---where ever that now is. And I want that basic information all in one or two clicks - not forced to wander all over, wade through distracting imagery, scroll down ,follow incomprehensible symbols, and/or have to re-enter my sign-in information multiple times That is what HAL would hear if they asked me.

[thinfool]

Yep. Small-screen, too.

 

Which brings up the point that HAL has decided to use ">" to indicate the preceding is a link

in violation of W3C Recommendation 2.4.4.

 

Really...do you have some way to verify that?

 

I am definitely of the opinion that my index finger tapped the ">" key as I entered the requested information.

[catl331]

I don't see anything like Deck Plans, just activities and find a cruise.

You have to click on the ship name that is followed by > (e.g. Koningsdam > ) on the left side of the screen and then scroll down past Onboard Activities and Suites & Staterooms . Not so obvious, is it?

[bUU]

So, can someone please tell me where to find the deck plans on the new site?

The Experience / Our Ships then scroll down to the ship (in my case, Nieuw Amsterdam). Click on the ship name and then scroll down to Deck Plans. They are available on screen, as a PDF file, and also highlighting accessible routes.

 

Before HAL tosses out all the old bathwater in pursuit of these illusive and ill-defined new future customers, they may want to consider those who have very high cruise credit days - sailing days plus onboard spending -- and still have another decade of cruise choices to make.

There is every reason to believe that they have, and still made the best business decision for their owners, even though you may begrudge the decision. Also keep in mind what I wrote earlier: The website's main purpose is to sell new customers on the cruise line. Whatever the website offers to returning passengers it does so as a secondary consideration. So looking at the website as a bellwether with regard to your patronage is simply a mistake. Again, returning passengers already have preconceived notions about what cruise line they want to be on, and those preconceived notions will matter more than the website. Only a very few people would care more about the cruise line's website rather than whether the service staff treated them well on their last cruise.

 

I don't mean to say that you personally wouldn't make your purchasing decision based on the website alone, but rather that most returning passengers are going to choose the cruise line again or not based mostly on their last experience on-board rather than anything as trivial as the website.

Edited May 10, 2018 by bUU

[Haboob]

Yep. Small-screen, too.

 

Which brings up the point that HAL has decided to use ">" to indicate the preceding is a link

in violation of W3C Recommendation 2.4.4.

 

Really...do you have some way to verify that?

 

I am definitely of the opinion that my index finger tapped the ">" key as I entered the requested information.

 

RTFM: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

 

You do know that W3C is the international standards keeper for the web, no?

[thinfool]

RTFM: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

 

You do know that W3C is the international standards keeper for the web, no?

 

My point was that Holland America had absolutely nothing to do with the way that I posted that information. It was all about my finger.

 

W3C while interesting, is irrelevant in my post.

[Haboob]

My point was that Holland America had absolutely nothing to do with the way that I posted that information. It was all about my finger.

 

W3C while interesting, is irrelevant in my post.

 

I'll accept that. Will you accept, then, that your reply to my post had nothing to do with my post?

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Well, I went through the whole frickin' online document process on my desk top, which still, thank goodness, gets the "old" HAL website (I use chrome). Then, behold: for the first time in 13 years of cruising, I couldn't print either our tags or our boarding passes (saw the message about disabling all ad blockers). I'm the first to admit that I'm an incompetent, technical luddite and boob (mea culpa). Thank goodness for my long-time, wonderful, full-service travel agent who sent me PDF attachments that I could print at home.

[OlsSalt]

The Experience / Our Ships then scroll down to the ship (in my case, Nieuw Amsterdam). Click on the ship name and then scroll down to Deck Plans. They are available on screen, as a PDF file, and also highlighting accessible routes.

 

There is every reason to believe that they have, and still made the best business decision for their owners, even though you may begrudge the decision. Also keep in mind what I wrote earlier: The website's main purpose is to sell new customers on the cruise line. Whatever the website offers to returning passengers it does so as a secondary consideration. So looking at the website as a bellwether with regard to your patronage is simply a mistake. Again, returning passengers already have preconceived notions about what cruise line they want to be on, and those preconceived notions will matter more than the website. Only a very few people would care more about the cruise line's website rather than whether the service staff treated them well on their last cruise.

 

I don't mean to say that you personally wouldn't make your purchasing decision based on the website alone, but rather that most returning passengers are going to choose the cruise line again or not based mostly on their last experience on-board rather than anything as trivial as the website.

 

I use the old HAL website to easily explore new cruises that I may want to take, having made a decision to explore HAL first. I can't do this now. I am locked out of the game. We have always booked directly, or with a HAL PCC after our initial old website exploration, primarily searching date, length, ship and location.

 

I hear what you are saying but I personally feel like a stranger in a strange land on this new website - all our former well-earned comfort with HAL has been broken. Shattered.

 

If they were willing to do this with us, as high cruise credit customers, there is no reason we should bother with them since they are making so many onboard changes anyway. They no longer care about our business. We did cancel a long Westerdam cruise after seeing what they did to the library, but we also just happened across the new InDepth Maasdam using our old search methods only because I was searching for September cruises of longer duration.

 

I had no idea this was an "Indepth" cruise - that was not the draw, though it does sound like a step in the right direction. But I was not enticed by it on any form of the new website - I only fell into it because of the month it was offered.

 

Point here is this new website is alienating old HAL passengers because it is impossible to navigate. That should state the case as clearly as possible. How much digging do I want to do on this website right now - zero. After our next two cruises are over on HAL ..... I honestly don't know how I will find our next one, or with whom.

[danb35]

I use the old HAL website to easily explore new cruises that I may want to take, having made a decision to explore HAL first. I can't do this now.

Why not? Admittedly, I'm pretty much at the opposite end of the experience spectrum from you--I have my first HAL cruise (my first cruise at all, actually) scheduled for next January.

 

But why can't you "easily explore new cruises"? I go to hollandamerica.com, and right there on the home page I can search by destination, departure date, departure port, and length. Admittedly, searching by ship takes a few more clicks.

[drlee]

I don't know if anyone from HAL would ever look at this forum, but I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful to post what we don't like about the new site. My experiences:

1. To get to a cruise I have already booked, it takes at least two different logins. Then even, even when signed in, I have to enter my booking number and last name. Not helpful.

2. If you have a cruise booked, and not have an assigned cabin, there is no easy way to check if a room is assigned and what it is. In the past, when you checked your bookings, the main page would tell you the booking, ports, and stateroom. From that page you could select print luggage tags, neither are available now.

3. Access to the past is either not there, or hidden.

I wish when companies decide to update their websites, that they would include their customers, both to find desired features, and to find workability issues. I'm not opposed to change, but I am opposed to change that doesn't make it better. Making it prettier should not be a goal.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Why not? Admittedly, I'm pretty much at the opposite end of the experience spectrum from you--I have my first HAL cruise (my first cruise at all, actually) scheduled for next January.

 

But why can't you "easily explore new cruises"? I go to hollandamerica.com, and right there on the home page I can search by destination, departure date, departure port, and length. Admittedly, searching by ship takes a few more clicks.

 

Depends on whether you are interacting with the "old" HAL website, or the "new" one. Right now, I think the website is a hybrid of the two, if the previous reports on this thread are any indication.

[OlsSalt]

The new "plan a cruise" now takes multiple clicks and multiple page re-loads to get the customized combination I used to get in one page. That is what I hate. Hate, hate, hate. Too much time, too many dead ends, too many unwanted page views.

 

Plus it is totally confusing to the uninitiated - if I want a cruise for Sept - out comes a long, long list of all sorts of cruises I am not interested in - they dumped everything they had in Sept.

 

. Do I have to scroll down the entire first list to find a duration, area or ship I would like? How did I know I was supposed to keep clicking and clicking and keep reloading and reloading page after page to finally get a combination that I was in fact looking for?

 

I admit I gave up on the first try when all it did was dump the entire load of Sept cruises on me.

 

The upfront navigation of this plan a cruise feature is off-putting. Bring back the laundry list of questions first - and then offer the list of cruises that best meet that combination ..... with one click.

[danb35]

Depends on whether you are interacting with the "old" HAL website, or the "new" one.

I'm pretty sure it's the new one--in any event, the path given just up-thread to get to the deck plans works. I was going to paste in a screenshot of the landing page I get, but apparently this forum doesn't support that. But that page has an image of a ship at sea, and below that, four drop-down menus: Sail to, Depart from, Departure date, and Duration, followed by a yellow Search button.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I don't know if anyone from HAL would ever look at this forum, but I wonder if it wouldn't be helpful to post what we don't like about the new site. My experiences:

1. To get to a cruise I have already booked, it takes at least two different logins. Then even, even when signed in, I have to enter my booking number and last name. Not helpful.

2. If you have a cruise booked, and not have an assigned cabin, there is no easy way to check if a room is assigned and what it is. In the past, when you checked your bookings, the main page would tell you the booking, ports, and stateroom. From that page you could select print luggage tags, neither are available now.

3. Access to the past is either not there, or hidden.

I wish when companies decide to update their websites, that they would include their customers, both to find desired features, and to find workability issues. I'm not opposed to change, but I am opposed to change that doesn't make it better. Making it prettier should not be a goal.

 

I hadn't noticed that you don't see your cabin number when you check your booking. I always choose my cabin, so it isn't something I have to look for. You're right, you have to go to manage my booking and then click check in (which requires putting in your name and booking number again). Everything seems to take more clicks than it used to.

 

The interactive itinerary you get when you select a cruise in the "plan" process is very cool. But I want to be able to see the whole itinerary at a glance. The map doesn't cut it because it doesn't show times. You can choose "list view" but it's so spread out you still need to scroll down the page. If you start a booking, after 2 clicks you can get a drop-down or pop-up that gives you a nice concise itinerary, with times. But NONE of these variations on the itineraries show the usual caveats like tender required. That's important info and I hope they add that.

[bUU]

I hear what you are saying but I personally feel like a stranger in a strange land on this new website

As we have reached "that age" we are expecting that feeling to become the general case for most things, just like our parents did before us.

 

Admittedly, I'm pretty much at the opposite end of the experience spectrum from you--I have my first HAL cruise (my first cruise at all, actually) scheduled for next January. But why can't you "easily explore new cruises"? I go to hollandamerica.com, and right there on the home page I can search by destination, departure date, departure port, and length.

That has been the critical point through most of this thread. The reality is that the website is great. It does exactly what it's supposed to do. It serves the need and appeals to the specific Market segment that it supposed to appeal to. The controversy is just about some people not liking not being the target any longer.