Better to Change US $ to EU in the US or wait til Europe

[Hlitner]

My math is not flawed. There is definitely a difference on the bottom line to us each and every time we do a comparison. I pay foreign ATM fees because the only account we have at the bank is a gratis plus 55 account. Not interested in a monthly fee account of any kind.

 

Does not matter to me what you really think. All that matters is that we have been saving a fair amount of bank fees by doing this for the past six years of fairly regular travel.

 

Just to clarify, if you are able to keep a balance on your credit card then your withdrawal would not, by definition, be a "cash advance" since you are simply taking available cash out of your account similar to a Debit card transaction. Many credit cards do not allow for maintaining a balance and will even go so far as to send the card holder a check in order to get it down to zero (we once experienced this issue).

 

Hank

[iancal]

Yes, We keep a balance. Just large enough to cover our next planned withdrawal. Then we build up the credit again. My best guess is that the Visa cash advance is based on the current VISA spot settlement exchange rate. The banks ATM withdrawal rate is set by the bank and is, in our experience, not as favourable to us.

 

The difference in exchange rates should come as no surprise. Several years ago we had $5K of USD to deposit in our Canadian bank account. I went to the bank and got the rate, and how much CAD we would get. Then I crossed the street, went down a block to the Calforex FX store. They gave me exactly $150. CAD more for that $5K of USD.

 

When depositing a larger US dollar cheque (in our case $15-20K) we never use the ATM or accept the banks 'counter exchange' rate. We phone the account manager, tell him/her the amount of the cheque, and then he or she gives us a rate (better than the bank ATM or counter rate) that is good for the next two or three hours. Then we do the fx change at that rate and deposit.

 

This business of banks and exchange rates is not the holy grail. It is basic competitive business and the rates are not all the same. Heck, at the FX store that we use we sometimes see bank tellers from across the street getting FX for themselves. They claim the rate at the FX store is sometimes better than their employee rate at their bank!

Edited August 10, 2018 by iancal

[Cruise Junky]

Heck, at the FX store that we use we sometimes see bank tellers from across the street getting FX for themselves. They claim the rate at the FX store is sometimes better than their employee rate at their bank!

 

Bank rates are a rip off. Scotia right now wants 1.3429 for US and the Exchange place across the street is 1.31970. I don't even remember the last time I used my bank for any type of foreign exchange.

[iancal]

I think I am able to do this because the Visa card that I used for foreign exchange purposes and cash advances was issued by a different bank from the bank that I have my account with. It is no no FX fee card. We typically buy our cruises from an on line TA in the US or from an agent in another country. Not having the 2.5 adder that our bank Visa would charge really adds up over time.

[sambamama]

I opened a Charles Schwab checking account (fee free) with opening a brokerage account (also fee free.) I got a debit card which is fee free, it refunds all bank Atm fees monthly, so as long as you keep enough money in there to cover the Atm fees, you are all set. I used it on a big trip where I need Singapore$, Hong Kong $, New Zealand $, TonGan $, Fiji $, and Tahitian money. Worked like a charm!

[Tampa Girl]

In Europe the best exchange rate is always at a bank ATM, which can be found at just about any airport and in the center of most cities. In some countries such as France, bank ATMs are on almost every block. This exchange rate is way better than what you can get when buying Euros in the US.

 

For purchases I try to use my credit card or debit card as much as possible. Try to use a card that has low or no exchange fees. Credit cards are widely accepted. Debit cards are almost universally accepted, even for tiny amounts. Sone Northern European countries, such as Denmark, are rapidly moving in the direction of cashless.

 

Debit cards are not as safe, even in the U.S. That having been said, it is the easiest way to get cash in foreign countries. Caveat: Don't use even a bank ATM that is across the street from a major attraction. The only time I had a problem was in Barcelona, where my debit card was scammed and all funds removed from my checking account. Later I read an article that warned against exactly what I did. In my case the bank was across from the Familial Segrada,

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tampa Girl

[SFO Peter]

[beginquote=Tampa Girl;56767114]Debit cards are not as safe, even in the U.S. That having been said, it is the easiest way to get cash in foreign countries. Caveat: Don't use even a bank ATM that is across the street from a major attraction. The only time I had a problem was in Barcelona, where my debit card was scammed and all funds removed from my checking account. Later I read an article that warned against exactly what I did. In my case the bank was across from the Familial Segrada,[/endquote]

====

 

Did you use an ATM that was attached to a "known" bank? Did they manage to get your PIN? I go to locations of ATM attached to banks and do not use "stand alone" ATMs. Again I have a limit of $1 purchase for ATM card so no one can use it for purchases.

 

Peter

[Tampa Girl]

[beginquote=Tampa Girl;56767114]Debit cards are not as safe, even in the U.S. That having been said, it is the easiest way to get cash in foreign countries. Caveat: Don't use even a bank ATM that is across the street from a major attraction. The only time I had a problem was in Barcelona, where my debit card was scammed and all funds removed from my checking account. Later I read an article that warned against exactly what I did. In my case the bank was across from the Familial Segrada,[/endquote]

====

 

Did you use an ATM that was attached to a "known" bank? Did they manage to get your PIN? I go to locations of ATM attached to banks and do not use "stand alone" ATMs. Again I have a limit of $1 purchase for ATM card so no one can use it for purchases.

 

Peter

 

Yes, it was a known bank, and yes they got the pin. They started taking out a few dollars, and then a day later, hundreds, and eventually withdrew everything, leaving a bare minimum. We were on a TA and were due in Tampa within a couple of days. I went on line and got this "overdrawn" message from the bank in my emails. Fortunately, the bank made the funds good within 36 hours, but it left me with a slight sense of urgency and the need for future caution. Check your bank balance frequently!

 

And this bring up another thought. Is it only me, or are others frequently finding that their charge card has been frozen because of a fraud alert? This always requires a phone call to the bank or credit card to o.k. the purchase. An advance phone call to the credit card co. or bank before leaving the country seems to be more advisable than ever. Sorry for the off-topic.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Tampa Girl
spelling

[Charles4515]

Yes, it was a known bank, and yes they got the pin. They started taking out a few dollars, and then a day later, hundreds, and eventually withdrew everything, leaving a bare minimum. We were on a TA and were due in Tampa within a couple of days. I went on line and got this "overdrawn" message from the bank in my emails. Fortunately, the bank made the funds good within 36 hours, but it left me with a slight sense of urgency and the need for future caution. Check your bank balance frequently!

 

 

 

Check if your bank has alerts. I signed up and my bank notifies me within minutes of any withdrawals. I get alerts for my credit cards too.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Charles4515]

Did you use an ATM that was attached to a "known" bank? Did they manage to get your PIN? I go to locations of ATM attached to banks and do not use "stand alone" ATMs. Again I have a limit of $1 purchase for ATM card so no one can use it for purchases.

 

Peter

 

 

They attach a skimmer to the machine. Most people can’t see it. They don’t make purchases, they withdraw cash. There is a limit, I think $300 a day so they just keep returning every day until it gets declined. That’s why everyone should sign up for alerts so they can have the card canceled before they take out too much. As long as the card was not lost or stolen, you have it in your possession you have no liability, the bank will put the funds back, but none wants their account drained. Sign up for the alerts if available. One of my banks does not have them so I never use an ATM with that debit card.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited August 12, 2018 by Charles4515

[kazu]

Yes, it was a known bank, and yes they got the pin. They started taking out a few dollars, and then a day later, hundreds, and eventually withdrew everything, leaving a bare minimum. We were on a TA and were due in Tampa within a couple of days. I went on line and got this "overdrawn" message from the bank in my emails. Fortunately, the bank made the funds good within 36 hours, but it left me with a slight sense of urgency and the need for future caution. Check your bank balance frequently!

 

And this bring up another thought. Is it only me, or are others frequently finding that their charge card has been frozen because of a fraud alert? This always requires a phone call to the bank or credit card to o.k. the purchase. An advance phone call to the credit card co. or bank before leaving the country seems to be more advisable than ever. Sorry for the off-topic.

 

Ironically the only time I had my credit card compromised

was in the United States. The source was found caught I'm persisten on that stuff. I don't use my CC at every little spot when we are travelling.

 

 

They attach a skimmer to the machine. Most people can’t see it. They don’t make purchases, they withdraw cash. There is a limit, I think $300 a day so they just keep returning every day until it gets declined. That’s why everyone should sign up for alerts so they can have the card canceled before they take out too much. As long as the card was not lost or stolen, you have it in your possession you have no liability, the bank will put the funds back, but none wants their account drained. Sign up for the alerts if available. One of my banks does not have them so I never use an ATM with that debit card.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

skimmers can be on not just ATM's but machines in stores. They are easily identified IF you are looking.

 

they normally are in stores without good security and lazy clerks and the same thing for ATM's. (At least that is the case in Canada).

 

They are not hard to spot if you know what to look for but they can be tricky.

 

Like you, there is no liability in Canada but of course any burden the banks have to carry will be passed on to the consumer so best to be alert.

[SFO Peter]

So, they have ATM skimmers that will capture PIN as well??? I have always read that you need to cover the keyboard when you key your PIN. Did not know that they have skimmers that will capture PIN.

All the more reason to use cash and minimize Debit and Credit card usage. My last trip to Europe we paid cash at all of the restaurants.

 

Peter

Edited August 12, 2018 by SFO PETER
added

[Charles4515]

So, they have ATM skimmers that will capture PIN as well??? I have always read that you need to cover the keyboard when you key your PIN. Did not know that they have skimmers that will capture PIN.

All the more reason to use cash and minimize Debit and Credit card usage. My last trip to Europe we paid cash at all of the restaurants.

 

Peter

 

They use a camera or a fake keyboard over the real one to get your PIN.

 

Restaurants in Europe are pretty safe to use your credit card. Probably the safest place anywhere to use a credit card. They either bring a chip machine to the table or you insert your chip card into a machine at the door.

 

What I do is use Apple Pay whenever possible. Mobile wallets use tokens and encryption to mask your card number. Used it a lot in UK last year. Some banks are adding ATM cash withdrawals with Apple Pay. Well Fargo and Chase have begun adding it to their ATMs.

[kazu]

So, they have ATM skimmers that will capture PIN as well??? I have always read that you need to cover the keyboard when you key your PIN. Did not know that they have skimmers that will capture PIN.

All the more reason to use cash and minimize Debit and Credit card usage. My last trip to Europe we paid cash at all of the restaurants.

 

Peter

 

You most likely have a chip card as I do Peter.

 

that makes a huge difference :). When my credit card was hit it was some time ago and was not a chip and pin card.

 

They make a huge difference and the reason Canada and the EU went to them. they were worth the investment for the banks and credit card companies :)

[SFO Peter]

Yes, all Credit and Debit cards chipped and none of them have RFID (Radio Frequency). I believe US is still not on board with Credit Card Chip that requires PIN for usage.

 

Peter

[Charles4515]

Yes, all Credit and Debit cards chipped and none of them have RFID (Radio Frequency). I believe US is still not on board with Credit Card Chip that requires PIN for usage.

 

Peter

 

And it looks like the US never will be on board with requiring a PIN. Going the other way. Don't need a signature anymore only a Chip card. No signature. In the future Apple Pay and other mobile wallets will supplant using physical cards. Tap and Pay is faster too, which is what merchants want, fast processing at check out. In the last two weeks the only purchases where I had to use my physical credit card were at restaurants. Everywhere else I used Apple Pay.

[SFO Peter]

I think it is good that we all have choices. I don't want/need tap and go. Don't want my information broadcast over RFID since it may not be secure. Also crooks can pass a wand over your pocket and get your information while you are not looking. I know you can get protective sleeves. Someone posted a video of how to drill out the RFID )))) so I disabled my Costco Visa card RFID with a drill. No protective sleeves needed.

 

Peter

[SFO Peter]

A resident of this household had his card information stolen twice while the card was in his possession - here in SF. Then same thing happened to one friend in Las Vegas. This was about two years ago.

[Charles4515]

I think it is good that we all have choices. I don't want/need tap and go. Don't want my information broadcast over RFID since it may not be secure. Also crooks can pass a wand over your pocket and get your information while you are not looking. I know you can get protective sleeves. Someone posted a video of how to drill out the RFID )))) so I disabled my Costco Visa card RFID with a drill. No protective sleeves needed.

 

 

 

Peter

 

 

 

Apple Pay uses NFC. The iPhone or Apple Watch has to be inches away from the terminal. The credit card information is not transmitted. What is transmitted is a token created on your phone in a Secure Enclave. That is encrypted. It is a one time token. It is unencrypted by your credit card company when they receive it on their server from the terminal. Even if it were intercepted it wouldn’t be of any value as the token is one time. Apple Pay is way more secure than inserting your physical credit card into the terminal where someone could have installed a shimmer.