Emotional Support Animals No Longer Allowed on Royal Caribbean Cruise Ships

[Sam Ting]

This whole problem goes away if people just mind their own business and enjoy their vacation. Some peoplle just love to complain, so I guess everybody is happy.

 

Have a great cruise!

[jamesnmphs]

This whole problem goes away if people just mind their own business and enjoy their vacation. Some peoplle just love to complain, so I guess everybody is happy.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

 

 

The problem does not go away “when people mind their own business”. I don’t want anyone serving me food after they have been petting any animal without washing their hands.

 

There is a difference between “service animals” and “emotional support animals”. I don’t have an issue with someone who requires an animal to alert them to a health issue or for guidance (in the case of a seeing eye dog). But to say your dog is an emotional support and you are pushing it around in a baby carriage and dressing it up is totally absurd. If you need that as your emotional support, maybe you need to say home.

 

 

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[cltnccruisers]

Good news! I heard Southwest did the same thing and I hope ALL airlines follow. I saw so many dogs at Disney last week it was unreal!

 

I saw this on FBN yesterday and there were 6 or 7 airlines and RCL listed. Could be the start of a trend.

[cltnccruisers]

This whole problem goes away if people just mind their own business and enjoy their vacation. Some peoplle just love to complain, so I guess everybody is happy.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

It's difficult to mind your own business with constant yapping and someone's pooch does its business on deck.

[jamesnmphs]

My question is: Are the people with “Emotional support animals” paying to have these animals with them?

 

Several years ago I was on a Delta flight in first class, half way through the flight I noticed the seat in window seat in front and across the aisle was empty. When we landed, Bullseye, the Target dog sat up in the seat and looked out of the window. I did not know until that moment that the dog was in the seat. Yes, Bullseye’s handler had to buy or was given the seat. Bullseye has been making a public appearance at a children’s hospital.

 

I am not sure what kind of emotional support a bird, Turkey, chicken, snake, lizard or goldfish can give.

 

 

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[Melrosgirl]

My question is: Are the people with “Emotional support animals” paying to have these animals with them?

 

Several years ago I was on a Delta flight in first class, half way through the flight I noticed the seat in window seat in front and across the aisle was empty. When we landed, Bullseye, the Target dog sat up in the seat and looked out of the window. I did not know until that moment that the dog was in the seat. Yes, Bullseye’s handler had to buy or was given the seat. Bullseye has been making a public appearance at a children’s hospital.

 

I am not sure what kind of emotional support a bird, Turkey, chicken, snake, lizard or goldfish can give.

 

 

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Was it really Bullseye? 20 years ago I moved across the country and flew my dog and my infant daughter with me. Ticket for my dog was over $400 and he had to be under the plane in cargo. My infant daughter’s seat was only around $200. Drives me insane that dogs are allowed on board a plane or a ship nowadays for a very small fee if any . (I was on harmony last month and a dog left a nice surprise for everyone near elevators by Central Park. Any responsible owner would always be on the lookout for this. Service dog or emotional support dog.)

[Sam Ting]

The problem does not go away “when people mind their own business”. I don’t want anyone serving me food after they have been petting any animal without washing their hands.

 

There is a difference between “service animals” and “emotional support animals”. I don’t have an issue with someone who requires an animal to alert them to a health issue or for guidance (in the case of a seeing eye dog). But to say your dog is an emotional support and you are pushing it around in a baby carriage and dressing it up is totally absurd. If you need that as your emotional support, maybe you need to say home.

 

 

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If you saw that happen then you should complain nicely to the waiter. Keep in mind you don’t know where anyone’s hands have been anyway. Ever hear the joke that ends with smell my finger? Lol.

[Sam Ting]

It's difficult to mind your own business with constant yapping and someone's pooch does its business on deck.

 

 

How does a load of dog poop affect you so much? Just walk around it for heavens sake.

 

Where was the constant tapping? Are you just imagining it?

[jamesnmphs]

Was it really Bullseye? 20 years ago I moved across the country and flew my dog and my infant daughter with me. Ticket for my dog was over $400 and he had to be under the plane in cargo. My infant daughter’s seat was only around $200. Drives me insane that dogs are allowed on board a plane or a ship nowadays for a very small fee if any . (I was on harmony last month and a dog left a nice surprise for everyone near elevators by Central Park. Any responsible owner would always be on the lookout for this. Service dog or emotional support dog.)

 

 

 

YES, it really was bullseye. Although, there are a couple of them with more waiting in the wings. He was in full makeup (red bulls eye around his right eye). The handler/Trainer lives north of LA on a ranch and Bullseye only flys first class.

 

 

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[cltnccruisers]

How does a load of dog poop affect you so much? Just walk around it for heavens sake.

 

Where was the constant tapping? Are you just imagining it?

 

Have you no sense of smell on a hot day? And that was yapping, not tapping - as in an annoyinng constant high pitched bark

[squadron]

Was it really Bullseye? 20 years ago I moved across the country and flew my dog and my infant daughter with me. Ticket for my dog was over $400 and he had to be under the plane in cargo. My infant daughter’s seat was only around $200. Drives me insane that dogs are allowed on board a plane or a ship nowadays for a very small fee if any . (I was on harmony last month and a dog left a nice surprise for everyone near elevators by Central Park. Any responsible owner would always be on the lookout for this. Service dog or emotional support dog.)

 

Service dogs are trained on a schedule (as was my large pet dogs) and would not have "an accident" in a public place. They wait until owners told them to the correct area. Have seen a service dog entering a designed area on a ship. A REAL service dog.

[cltnccruisers]

Service dogs are trained on a schedule (as was my large pet dogs) and would not have "an accident" in a public place. They wait until owners told them to the correct area. Have seen a service dog entering a designed area on a ship. A REAL service dog.

 

I agree with the training aspect but I think the question of a REAL service dog is the problem. I don't think anyone has a problem with them - it's the folks scamming the system.

[jamesnmphs]

How does a load of dog poop affect you so much? Just walk around it for heavens sake.

 

 

 

Where was the constant tapping? Are you just imagining it?

 

 

 

I am sorry, but when I pay in excess of $8,000.00 for a cruise, I do not want to have to be on the lookout for dog poop. Perhaps I am strange and that way.

 

I am glad I don’t cruise with a line that does not allow “emotional support animals “ at least none that I have ever seen.

 

Sam, what cruise line do you sail on? I want to make sure I avoid it, if they allow dogs to urinate and deficate, and no one is concerned about the issue.

 

 

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[TwoMisfits]

Best decision ever made. Balances the needs of those scared of dogs and those allergic to dogs, with those who TRULY need dogs, not just those who WANT dogs...

 

Since I have a little one freaked by almost all dogs (and yes, he's been exposed to many friendly and small dogs...and he still dives behind my legs and waits for them to go away...and no, he's never been bitten or hurt - he just can't handle the barking/excitement/licking/etc), this news could not make me any happier. True service dogs are about the only dogs that don't bother him b/c they are trained to not be excited/friendly/or trying to get near him...that "no excitement and no approach" is so important...

[Cruise_Couple]

Here is a list of Q&A directly on the ADA Government site explaining about SERVICE animals...

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

In short... it seems like this new policy will be fairly meaningless and impossible to enforce.

[orville99]

Here is a list of Q&A directly on the ADA Government site explaining about SERVICE animals...

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

In short... it seems like this new policy will be fairly meaningless and impossible to enforce.

 

 

Seems that this Q&A covers the actions that RCL's staff can take pier side quite well:

 

Q7. What questions can a covered entity's employees ask to determine if a dog is a service animal?

 

A. In situations where it is not obvious that the dog is a service animal, staff may ask only two specific questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability? and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform? Staff are not allowed to request any documentation for the dog, require that the dog demonstrate its task, or inquire about the nature of the person's disability.

[cltnccruisers]

Here is a list of Q&A directly on the ADA Government site explaining about SERVICE animals...

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

In short... it seems like this new policy will be fairly meaningless and impossible to enforce.

 

The change is for emotional support vs service.

 

 

Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?

A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws

 

 

I think lack of documentation will be the problem.

[chengkp75]

Here is a list of Q&A directly on the ADA Government site explaining about SERVICE animals...

 

https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html

 

In short... it seems like this new policy will be fairly meaningless and impossible to enforce.

 

Those are regulations, policies, and definitions of service animals for implementation within the US. As noted in my previous post, SCOTUS has ruled that the "internal policies and procedures" of foreign flag cruise ships are not bound by the ADA, and this is proved out in the information linked in post #165, which covers implementation on cruise ships, specifically, and notes that the lines' policies may be different than what is accepted in the US, but that they must make "reasonable efforts" to accommodate.

[gbatch750]

Short answer, the response was to the mother of a veteran with PTSD, who has been provided a "service dog". His dog is not an Emotional Support Animal, and is protected by the ADA. I do not believe that the cruise line will, or can. deny him passage with his dog. I believe it could be successfully challenged in court, if they did. I also think the risk associated with the press would be to high to take on the issue.

 

LONG ANSWER

Agreed regarding Emotional Support Animals, see above.

 

Conflict with Foreign Laws

From what was published by the DOT

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/PVGuidance2_3_11.pdf

 

Your language is a little off. Where you say, "would be waived to eliminate confusion", the written guideline says

 

"*Under section 39.9, a PVO may apply for a conflict of law waiver if the legalrequirement of a foreign government to which the PVO is subject creates a conflict withthe requirements of the Department’s rule.

 

*To be considered a conflict under this section, the foreign provision must be legallymandatory (e.g., a statute or a rule) rather than guidance or a recommendation. It mustexplicitly prohibit something that Part 39 requires or explicitly require something thatPart 39 prohibits."

 

I think we can agree the most relevant section is the last sentence.

 

Since the rulings that put this in place, I am unaware of any cruise line choosing to apply for a waiver from accepting service animals, but there may well be. I also admit that I am making the assumption, they would have to make the existence of such waiver publicly known. Without the waiver, they are required to be compliant.

 

Your last point is also well taken. I have actually seen it described as "Sailing" in US waters.

 

Do you know if there have been any further guidance written since the 2011 document?

 

As far as arguing that I know my ADA rights, I am blessed to not need protection under the ADA. I have argued the rights successfully on multiple occasions, BUT never for or against a cruise line. If you were saying that I shouldn't get on board a ship and argue ADA rights, why would I argue them on board? If you were saying that you couldn't get on board with my argument, that is your right.

Yes, as I understand it they are revisiting the 2011 requirements. They specifically note that the new review does not include foreign flagged vessels as "This [cruise] industry is contesting the jurisdiction of the United States Government as regards ADA". It also is focusing on accessibility issues and not service/emotional support animal.

 

Title 3 specifically addresses emotional support animals that do not compete a task as not being included in the service animal category. An alert would be a task, a petting of the animal I would not believe qualifies as a task, ofcourse I guess that would be up to the carrier since ADA failed to define a task. Ships can "consider" them and are allowed to ask qualifying questions and demand documentation. No HIPPA here.

 

In my opinion, like many federal regulations they leave way to much for individual interpretation. Terms like can, could, may are used instead of shall or will.

 

What I mean by arguing your ADA rights is that letigist folks tend to do that in their attempt to create ADA violations. There's a fellow in LA who visits Disneyland often and seeks out ADA violations. The one he files often is ride break downs and delays. Although he is in a wheelchair and requires ride stops to board rides like Its a Small World, if it stops while he is on it mid-ride he files a complaint due to anxiety and not being able to immediately exit the ride. Last I heard he had 2500 complaints with cases filed and that was 5 or 6 years ago.

 

Again, if people need it due to a disability I have no problem with service animals. I have early onset Parkinson's and may need help myself one day and understand a service dogs capability, having been a police k9 officer at one time. Unfortunately, to many are abusing the system which made this issue, well an issue.

 

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[Sam Ting]

I am sorry, but when I pay in excess of $8,000.00 for a cruise, I do not want to have to be on the lookout for dog poop. Perhaps I am strange and that way.

 

I am glad I don’t cruise with a line that does not allow “emotional support animals “ at least none that I have ever seen.

 

Sam, what cruise line do you sail on? I want to make sure I avoid it, if they allow dogs to urinate and deficate, and no one is concerned about the issue.

 

 

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We have been on most major lines and not once did I see a load anywhere We haven’t been on RCCL in a while. Are you saying there are loads of crap everywhere on their ships? Disgusting.

[Sam Ting]

Have you no sense of smell on a hot day? And that was yapping, not tapping - as in an annoyinng constant high pitched bark

 

 

Yeah sure. Complain complain complain.

[jamesnmphs]

We have been on most major lines and not once did I see a load anywhere We haven’t been on RCCL in a while. Are you saying there are loads of crap everywhere on their ships? Disgusting.

 

 

 

No Sam, that is not what I am saying. You are the one who posted the quote “just walk around it”. I don’t want to “just walk around it” when I am on vacation on a cruise ship. What I am saying is that “emotional support animals” have no place on a cruise ship.

 

 

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[orville99]

Those are regulations, policies, and definitions of service animals for implementation within the US. As noted in my previous post, SCOTUS has ruled that the "internal policies and procedures" of foreign flag cruise ships are not bound by the ADA, and this is proved out in the information linked in post #165, which covers implementation on cruise ships, specifically, and notes that the lines' policies may be different than what is accepted in the US, but that they must make "reasonable efforts" to accommodate.

 

It appears, however, that RCL has chosen to follow ADA's definitions and procedures even though as you point out they are not bound by the ADA. It's good to see they are being proactive and working within those processes. My only other thought is that if they are not bound by the ADA, it would infer that they would not be bound by any prohibition on requesting documentation for the service animal prior to boarding.

[Sam Ting]

No Sam, that is not what I am saying. You are the one who posted the quote “just walk around it”. I don’t want to “just walk around it” when I am on vacation on a cruise ship. What I am saying is that “emotional support animals” have no place on a cruise ship.

 

 

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Such a burden to watch where you are walking. Lol. Some people need these dogs you know for whatever reason.

[chengkp75]

It appears, however, that RCL has chosen to follow ADA's definitions and procedures even though as you point out they are not bound by the ADA. It's good to see they are being proactive and working within those processes. My only other thought is that if they are not bound by the ADA, it would infer that they would not be bound by any prohibition on requesting documentation for the service animal prior to boarding.

 

My reading of RCI's statement is that they are providing a policy that is somewhat more restrictive than the ADA, which is allowed. They are requiring physical restraint while in public areas, while the ADA says that "verbal control" is acceptable in the US. And without seeing the complete set of policies that RCI intends to enforce, it is difficult to say what those policies will be, since the DOT gives a good bit of leeway for foreign flag ships, as noted in the document linked in post #165. What RCI is doing specifically per ADA's definitions and requirements is saying that they cannot disallow service animals, and that they will make "reasonable efforts" as outlined in the DOT document to accommodate service animals. They may well be able to restrict the service animals from certain areas of the ship, and they certainly can enforce a no feeding from the table policy, as even the ADA prohibits this.

 

As to the documentation issue, since the ADA does not require certification, the cruise line cannot deny a service animal for not having one. They will, most likely be fairly strict on determining whether the passenger has registered with special needs as to a disability, and with determining what the task the animal does for this disability.