Emotional Support Animals No Longer Allowed on Royal Caribbean Cruise Ships

[cltnccruisers]

It appears, however, that RCL has chosen to follow ADA's definitions and procedures even though as you point out they are not bound by the ADA. It's good to see they are being proactive and working within those processes. My only other thought is that if they are not bound by the ADA, it would infer that they would not be bound by any prohibition on requesting documentation for the service animal prior to boarding.

 

"Service animals that are formally trained and certified to perform a function are still welcome onboard with the proper paperwork and certifications.

"We just want to be able to give all our guests great vacations, and the reality is some emotional support animals aren't properly trained."

 

I wonder if they are planning to require some sort of internal documentation. For example, we are taking our granddaughters on AOS in 2020 and are required to provide a Parental Consent Form. It's basically permission to take them out of the US, make medical decisions, etc, and must be notarized. Without it the girls can't board. Maybe they plan to implement something similar attesting to the animal's training?

[House_Atreides]

I don’t know the answer to that question. I know people that have paid for he certificate and the Vest for their dog though, and they claim that the dog is a service animal. So I guess the form looks official enough.

 

There is NO certification for an ESA OR SD which is a huge problem. Anyone can go on a website and"certify" their animal. This makes it hard for us who have spent thousands of dollars and countless hours with a real trainer so we can have a real SERVICE DOG WHO IS TRAINED TO PERFORM A SPECIFIC TASK OR TASKS and has passed a public access test.

 

This will be very difficult to enforce onboard because people will run to these websites and buy vests and the like to prove their animal is a SD. More injures will result from this as everyone's going to be bringing their pet onboard... Who is not trained to do anything. The animals will SUFFER because the poor dog is not trained to handle mass amounts of people and not...so and so is a selfish entitled brat who thinks Fifi has a right to cruise too.

 

I'm glad this cruise line has eliminated ESAs but I fear for the safety of people onboard and REAL SDs bring bitten and the like.

 

Leave Fifi at home.

[Domino D]

Title 3 specifically addresses emotional support animals that do not compete a task as not being included in the service animal category.

 

In my opinion, like many federal regulations they leave way to much for individual interpretation. Terms like can, could, may are used instead of shall or will.

 

What I mean by arguing your ADA rights is that letigist folks tend to do that in their attempt to create ADA violations. There's a fellow in LA who visits Disneyland often and seeks out ADA violations. The one he files often is ride break downs and delays. Although he is in a wheelchair and requires ride stops to board rides like Its a Small World, if it stops while he is on it mid-ride he files a complaint due to anxiety and not being able to immediately exit the ride. Last I heard he had 2500 complaints with cases filed and that was 5 or 6 years ago.

 

Again, if people need it due to a disability I have no problem with service animals. I have early onset Parkinson's and may need help myself one day and understand a service dogs capability, having been a police k9 officer at one time. Unfortunately, to many are abusing the system which made this issue, well an issue.

 

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Thanks for the additional information, very interesting.

 

I would agree 100% that too many Federal Regulations are poorly worded, or incomplete, and leave too much room for interpretation. Just look at our back and forth.

 

The Disney Land guy is a whole other problem, that also unnecessarily complicates things. The more businesses (like our clients which are hotels) have to face that glut of action, the more we tend to develop seemingly crazy policies to avoid the issue. At least in our experience, this is how the whole fake Emotional Support Animal became a problem. You can't press people, there is no recognized paperwork, you can not effectively train employees to have good judgement, so you end up with "take them all" as your policy.

 

I am solidly on the side of not taking pets, masquerading as service animals, I am just not sure how they can effectively do it. Hopefully, I might learn something if they do it well.

 

I am sorry to hear about your situation, and wish only the best for you moving forward. I have enjoyed our conversation very much. It is always interesting to me to hear other perspectives. Especially well informed one's like yours.

[steveru621]

That is strange since they are being sued for I believe it was a lab trying to rip another passengers face off.

 

Not positive on the lab part but it was not a pitbull. I don't understand why their rights out weigh ours when traveling. I do not mind a true service dog but sick of these fakers.

 

Well said.

 

I'm sure the Delta passenger incident was part of this decision, and certainly what civil liability Delta would bear. This escalated to what specific breed of dog makes flight attendants fearful. I take no position, but pit bulls do not have a great reputation. Right or wrong, flight attendants were threatening not to fly if this breed was allowed in the passenger cabin.

 

I've been on flights where peanuts were banned because of one passenger. I'm allergic to dogs, and I'm also allergic to an ESA ripping my face off.

[Domino D]

In my opinion, like many federal regulations they leave way to much for individual interpretation. Terms like can, could, may are used instead of shall or will.

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To your larger point about confusion and interpretation, I knew I had seen this somewhere in the guidance.

 

39.5QUESTION: DO THE PROVISIONS OF PART 39 APPLY TO PVOs WHOSEVESSELS PICK UP OR DISCHARGE PASSENGERS AT U.S. PORTS, OR ONLYTO PVOs WHOSE VESSELS PICK UP PASSENGERS AT U.S. PORTS?

 

ANSWER:*There is a discrepancy between the language of the preamble to the Department’s regulation and its regulatory text that may cause confusion on this point.

 

They do go on to resolve it.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Domino D

[vwgolf]

What protection is their for people with dog allergies? You no longer get nuts on planes because of the fear of nut allergies so why should dogs be allowed on planes?

[grest]

bottom line: yes on service animals who, after training, provide vital services for its owner, and no on emotional support animals who are not trained in this way. I have compassion for those who may get some kind of support, but there has been so much abuse that others' rights, just as important, are being violated. My emotional support is in the cruise itself...I do not wish to hear barking, to see animals eating off plates, to walk past animal gifts. Not all support animals do any of these things, but too many do. Good on RCI in this instance.

[Floater4life]

That's exactly my point. Many of those that bring fluffy onboard are top cruisers. The reason they can sail so often is because their pets are allowed. They admit that they don't want pay kennel fees.

 

Will RCI have the guts to tell them that their pooch is no longer allowed? We'll have to wait and see. Hopefully they'll stand their ground no matter who it is. I'm totally for it.

 

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A guy I saw on a cruise at sail away had "fluffy" in his arms. He said she was a emotional support dog to everyone who came up to pet fluffy. All the time his wife was shaking her head. When he walked off she said to me. That dog is NOT a support dog he just loves her and doesn't want to leave her home. Total scammer. To your point they were in a very expensive suite and according to her cruised regularly. Will they tell this guy if you can't leave your dog home don't cruise with us? Hmmmm.... We'll see.

[Domino D]

The change is for emotional support vs service.

 

Q3. Are emotional support, therapy, comfort, or companion animals considered service animals under the ADA?

A. No. These terms are used to describe animals that provide comfort just by being with a person. Because they have not been trained to perform a specific job or task, they do not qualify as service animals under the ADA. However, some State or local governments have laws that allow people to take emotional support animals into public places. You may check with your State and local government agencies to find out about these laws

 

I think lack of documentation will be the problem.

 

Transpose that against this:

 

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

I'm sure a medical professional could make the differentiation, but I am struggling to figure out how you train reservations, ship and port employees to do this. Add to that you can only ask 2 questions. I'm not sure what will happen if someone accompanied by what many people call "litlle fluffy" claim to have been diagnosed with PTSD and require the dog. The answer seems more in the enhanced behavior regulations which can extend beyond ADA requirements, or unless the Chief and gbatch750 are saying that the cruise lines can ask more questions or require more documentation.

[A&L_Ont]

Will the time come that individuals with legitimate animals take a stand a demand that their rights are still protected but don't mind giving up further information to accomplish this? To continue to protect themselves but stop the abusers of the system.

 

I wonder if people with legitimate service animals will lobby for a better laid out national program to curb the abusers. For example, more specific questions that legally can be asked and perhaps have government photo ID of their animal. This would document their animal and it's training, something like a divers licence. Maybe even this ID states what your animal does, and no further questions have to be asked. If you are caught with a fake ID, you face a step fine such as $5,000 for the first charge, and escalates from there for reoccurring charges. I currently have to show my divers license to prove who I am when I check in to a hotel, why not have something similar for an ADA animal. It could answer the obvious questions, without even asking them.

 

If I needed assistance from an animal I would be livid at the fakers and be fighting against them. I would be willing to give up that information, to protect my rights and quash their falsehoods. Just my thoughts, and perhaps people with legitimate needs have already started to think about something like this.

[Beachammo]

My question is: Are the people with “Emotional support animals” paying to have these animals with them?

 

Several years ago I was on a Delta flight in first class, half way through the flight I noticed the seat in window seat in front and across the aisle was empty. When we landed, Bullseye, the Target dog sat up in the seat and looked out of the window. I did not know until that moment that the dog was in the seat. Yes, Bullseye’s handler had to buy or was given the seat. Bullseye has been making a public appearance at a children’s hospital.

 

I am not sure what kind of emotional support a bird, Turkey, chicken, snake, lizard or goldfish can give.

 

 

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I saw a small pig in Delta first class a few years ago. Had it's own seat....

 

Not sure if the pig got upgraded or paid........lol

 

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[johnjen]

I didn't really mind seeing dogs on board. But as the years progressed, I saw this "emotional support" dog thing get exaggerated. The phonies are destroying the legitimacy of SERVICE animals. But, this is a well thought of move by Royal. It was an abused privilege. Glad it's over.

[Rala]

Well, that's just ducky. Now what I am I supposed to do with the adorable sailor suit and ballerina tutu that I just had custom-made for my Bootsie to wear on our next cruise? The nerve of Royal Caribbean...now I am a nervous wreck! ;p

[RDC1]

Transpose that against this:

 

Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair,alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.

I'm sure a medical professional could make the differentiation, but I am struggling to figure out how you train reservations, ship and port employees to do this. Add to that you can only ask 2 questions. I'm not sure what will happen if someone accompanied by what many people call "litlle fluffy" claim to have been diagnosed with PTSD and require the dog. The answer seems more in the enhanced behavior regulations which can extend beyond ADA requirements, or unless the Chief and gbatch750 are saying that the cruise lines can ask more questions or require more documentation.

 

The cruise line is not asking ship and port employees to make the determination. Instead they are requiring anyone planning to bring a dog on board to get prior approval from corporate, most likely the special needs department. No pre-approval, no boarding. Thus the port and ship personnel are not involved in the decision.

[johnjen]

Well, that's just ducky. Now what I am I supposed to do with the adorable sailor suit and ballerina tutu that I just had custom-made for my Bootsie to wear on our next cruise? The nerve of Royal Caribbean...now I am a nervous wreck! ;p

 

I'm waiting on the "why were emotional support animals never allowed in the pools with the owners?"

[A&L_Ont]

I'm waiting on the "why were emotional support animals never allowed in the pools with the owners?"

 

Only if they were wearing swim diapers. ;)

[Mikew0805]

How about folks who use giant jogging strollers on the ship? I'd rather see a tiny dog stroller

 

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I'd rather see a dog than almost any human. ;)

[cltnccruisers]

I'm waiting on the "why were emotional support animals never allowed in the pools with the owners?"

 

How about my emotional support piranha?

[Toofarfromthesea]

It's a huge problem for the entire travel industry.

 

Frankly I think the solution to the issue is to require 'emotional support' animals to have exactly the same obedience training as legitimate service animals, which are some of the best trained animals around. The real problem with purported emotional support animals is not their presence (except for those with allergies), but their behavior and the behavior of their owners.

[BillOh]

I hope it is enforced.

 

https://cruisefever.net/royal-caribbean-banning-emotional-support-animals-from-their-cruise-ships/

 

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Coming late to the thread. I don't think enforcement will be an issue, To the best of my memory Service Dogs have easy to verify credentials. Without those, they don't board.

[John&LaLa]

Bummer I cant post Bella pics anymore

I'd rather see a dog than almost any human. ;)

 

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[Retired LEO]

A guy I saw on a cruise at sail away had "fluffy" in his arms. He said she was a emotional support dog to everyone who came up to pet fluffy. All the time his wife was shaking her head. When he walked off she said to me. That dog is NOT a support dog he just loves her and doesn't want to leave her home. Total scammer. To your point they were in a very expensive suite and according to her cruised regularly. Will they tell this guy if you can't leave your dog home don't cruise with us? Hmmmm.... We'll see.

 

Not a chance. Most of the scammers are top cruisers and they wouldn't have the guts to tell them to leave fluffy at home.

[Cuizer2]

Well, that's just ducky. Now what I am I supposed to do with the adorable sailor suit and ballerina tutu that I just had custom-made for my Bootsie to wear on our next cruise? The nerve of Royal Caribbean...now I am a nervous wreck! ;p

 

Then get an ES cat.

[John&LaLa]

Very popular in Japan

Only if they were wearing swim diapers. ;)

 

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[Icesk8rReedy]

At what point does this get so out of hand that the government steps in and starts making requirements for proof for the service animals? I take my dog with me any place I can IF they are dog friendly (Lowe's, Home Depot, etc) but never ever some place like a cruise or restaurant or even a friends house unless the dog is invited. My dogs are my kids but I have enough sense to not take them places that aren't pet friendly.