Viking in the Great Lakes

[Host Jazzbeau]

I recently received an interesting email from the President of the Great Lakes Passenger Boat Association.  He provided some facts about why cruise prices on the Great Lakes are so high:

•  If it is an American-flag vessel, general operating costs are generally higher (US-Flagged vessesl are expensive anywhere, not just on the Great Lakes)

•  Port costs in the Great Lakes are insanely expensive. One of the most expensive ports on the planet is (unsurprisingly) London, and Chicago, for example, is about the same price.

•  Pilotage is required even “at sea” in the Great Lakes, and is very, very expensive. Even for a five-star luxury vessel, pilotage is a shocking chunk of expenses.

 

But he points out that despite the expense, "the Great Lakes is a very good cruise destination.  The opinions I have heard talking to Europeans is that they were all very pleased with their experience."

 

He also gave me some interesting trivia points about Great Lakes cruising:

•  This is where the concept of a 7 ‘day’ roundtrip Saturday/Saturday or Sunday/Sunday started.

•  Also, the idea of matching 3 night/4 night trips to one week was started there.

•  Balconies first appeared on Great Lakes cruise vessels.

•  Chicago had the record of the most (cruise) passengers for years- Miami only overtook the number in the 1980’s!!!

•  The Passenger Vessel Services Act came about because of worries about Canadian operators ‘cutting into’ Mackinac Island trade.  [His claim – would be interesting to hear chengkp75's reaction]

•  There are no ‘international waters’ in the Great Lakes- consequently casinos cannot operate on the Lakes, even on international voyages. The equipment has to be removed, also.

[Host Jazzbeau]

On 10/29/2018 at 1:14 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

Here's a note from the Hapag-Lloyd itinerary for their Great Lakes cruises:  "Please note that the use of Zodiacs is not currently permitted on the Great Lakes."

https://www.hl-cruises.com/cruisefinder/INS2011#itinerary

 

On 10/29/2018 at 5:18 PM, Jack E Dawson said:

I live and sail on Lake Michigan. Zodiac boats are allowed on Lake Michigan. I can't speak to the other Great Lakes.

 

Jak

 

I'm not an expert on this controversy, but I recently received an email from the President of the Great Lakes Passenger Boat Association.  He noted the discussion in this thread and commented: "[P]eople indicated that Zodiacs are not allowed. That is correct. However, RIB-type boats are allowed."  

 

According to wikipedia, "A rigid-hulled inflatable boat (RHIB) or rigid-inflatable boat (RIB) is a lightweight but high-performance and high-capacity boat constructed with a solid, shaped hull and flexible tubes at the gunwale. The design is stable and seaworthy. The inflatable collar allows the vessel to maintain buoyancy if a large quantity of water is shipped aboard due to bad sea conditions. The RIB is a development of the inflatable boat."

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigid-hulled_inflatable_boat

 

Apparently in popular usage "zodiac" refers to a non-rigid inflatable boat which lacks the solid hull.

The confusion probably arises from the fact that the Zodiac company makes both types.

https://www.zodiac-nautic.com/en-us/

[Jack E Dawson]

Thanks Jazzbeau,

You are right, the RIB vs inflatable is a very important distinction. However, since Zodiac does make a RIB type boat, then I would assume they are allowed. Generally speaking, the inflatable Zodiacs are used on boats, especially sailboats, as dinghy/tenders. We are still a month away from putting boats back in the water on Lake Michigan but once that happens I will look to see what is out there.

 

Jack

 

[Heidi13]

When referring to small boats we used RIB (inflatable) & RHI (rigid hull).

 

Concur that Zodiac is a manufacturer, but these days it is no longer a single company, as in the mid 2000's the military & professional side of the business became Zodiac Milpro, with most of their boats built on the West Coast in Metro Vancouver. Zodiac is also an accepted trademark for rigid hulled inflatable boats.

 

I find it really strange that RIB's are approved on the Great Lakes, but not the safer and more structurally sound RHI. They have fibreglass hulls, which often have 2 separate hulls glued together, with multiple chamber inflatable collars. The transoms are also beefed up to accept big engines, which can weight hundreds of lbs each. I have visited the factory many times and they are very well constructed.

 

Personally, I'll go almost anywhere in a twin engine RHI, but in a RIB, won't catch me in anything but a millpond. Also not aware of RIB that are approved for use on commercial ships.

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

Personally, I'll go almost anywhere in a twin engine RHI...

 

That reminds me of a smallish boat I saw in Ft. Lauderdale with 4 huge outboards on the stern.  The captain of our sightseeing boat said:  "Why does it have 4 outboards?  Because 5 wouldn't fit..." 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

That reminds me of a smallish boat I saw in Ft. Lauderdale with 4 huge outboards on the stern.  The captain of our sightseeing boat said:  "Why does it have 4 outboards?  Because 5 wouldn't fit..." 

Haha, perfect answer.

 

Have great memories being in the local Zodiac boat (7.3 metres) with 4 x 150's. Wow, it could move. 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Very interesting.  Upper Lake Huron and Georgian Bay are stunningly beautiful!  I've looked for luxury or near-luxury trips on the Great Lakes, since there is so much beauty and interesting historical places.  I live on Lake Ontario, so for me it would be a local trip. The Thousand Islands area is also lovely, and you'd get to see Niagara Falls and that's wine country.

 

Tobermory is a wonderful place, very scenic, and known to be a dive center.  Perfect for zodiac tours.

 

I can well imagine them avoiding Lake Superior simply because of the rugged nature of both the weather, and the shore.  The fall would be a natural time to do this, although summer up here is glorious.

 

Not sure how much I would pay, but I regularly pay per diems in excess of $500 pp.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Wendy The Wanderer

[Host Jazzbeau]

2 hours ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Very interesting.  Upper Lake Huron and Georgian Bay are stunningly beautiful!  I've looked for luxury or near-luxury trips on the Great Lakes, since there is so much beauty and interesting historical places.

 

You should look at Ponant's Great Lakes cruises.  They would provide the level of luxury you are looking for:

https://us.ponant.com/cruises/north-america-great-lakes-of-north-america-c120919-4

or even better, Hapag-Lloyd from Toronto to Chicago including Lake Superior:

https://www.hl-cruises.com/cruisefinder/INS2011 

[Wendy The Wanderer]

On 3/16/2019 at 5:34 PM, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

You should look at Ponant's Great Lakes cruises.  They would provide the level of luxury you are looking for:

https://us.ponant.com/cruises/north-america-great-lakes-of-north-america-c120919-4

or even better, Hapag-Lloyd from Toronto to Chicago including Lake Superior:

https://www.hl-cruises.com/cruisefinder/INS2011 

 

Thanks, I have looked at both of those.  I seem to remember that both are very expensive, let me look again... Le Champlain's lowest-level cabin is about 200 sq ft, and the lowest fare for a 10-night cruise is >$7500. It's hard to match the prices against the cabins since the descriptions don't exactly match.  French flagged, very expensive.  A leaf-peeper cruise, September or October.

 

The Hapag-Lloyd trip looks amazing.  Right up into Lake Superior, and down into Lake Michigan.  Again, small minimum cabins, 14 days, starting at >$9000.  It would be great for us since it starts in Toronto, our home. Current listing is in June 2020.

 

BTW, I don't need absolute luxury--Viking's apparent premium level would be fine, but a decent-sized cabin would be important to me.

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by Wendy The Wanderer