The Elbe river 2019 - not just water levels

[arlowood]

23 minutes ago, oldgeez said:

 

Thanks.  This is a very useful site.

 

It tells me that unless we have 40 days and 40 nights of rain over the next 2 weeks, my ship won't be leaving the dock.

 

 

Looks like you might have to offer up a prayer to the equivalent of St Swithin in the Czechia and Germany

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, oldgeez said:

 

Thanks.  This is a very useful site.

 

It tells me that unless we have 40 days and 40 nights of rain over the next 2 weeks, my ship won't be leaving the dock.

 

 

I would not see it in such extremes, but I do think that it is very realistic to assume that you are more likely to not sail than sail. The BAfG authorities that operate the site state in their weekly report that the outlook for the Elbe is not good. While they obviously cannot comment on September yet, the wording and experience tells us that compared to the Rhine and Danube the Elbe is not likely to have consistently sufficient water levels (meaning for more than 24 hours) any time soon.

 

Hope the river will - come end of August - prove everybody wrong.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

On 7/17/2019 at 5:01 PM, FuelScience said:

Does the Elbe have similar problems downstream from Berlin? None of the lines serving North America seem to sail to Hamburg, but it might be a route worth pursuing if it doesn't suffer from the same navigation issues as the upper Elbe.

 

I have had a look at a popular online travel agency in Germany. Till the end of the year (including a New Year's Eve celebratory cruise) I can only see eight river cruises listed that sail down the Elbe from Magdeburg to Hamburg or vice versa. So cruises along the Elbe or the Canal - see AnhalterER1960's explanation - are few. They are all either CroisiEurope or German lines.

 

I can see the potential though for North America customers with different marketing - we have discussed this before. Tangermünde is a stop on the CroisiEurope itinerary and looks a nice enough place to me. The architecture and history connections are interesting. If one is interested in architecture, the brick gothic style of the regions there is fascinating and the flat plains make for an interesting contrast to the hills upstream. Mecklenburg-Vorpommern straddles the Elbe and as a region of lakes is so different from West Germany, i.e. the Rhine, I recommend visiting even if only to see how diverse Germany is.

But Schwerin I have been told is great. It would be far out from a river cruise, but still doable as a day trip.

 

By the way, one ship employed on the downstream route is the Junker Jörg, the former Viking Fontane.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

A quick look at the river levels on the Elbe. Overall, there has been hardly any change in the last week. A rise has been followed by a fall. Tonight Dresden is at 62cm and Magdeburg at 50cm. I hope I am mistaken but I cannot see the Elbe returning to reasonable sailing conditions in the next two weeks. A band of rain will be sweeping over the Upper Elbe tomorrow, but after that three days without rain follow. Sunday should bring more rain. Will it be sufficient to raise hopes for river cruising?

 

@AnhalterER1960, are steamships sailing out of Dresden?

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

I really don't understand how river cruise companies worked out a promising business plan for ships designed for either the Elbe or the Loire.  Both 'rivers' seem to resemble gravel pits more often than not...

[notamermaid]

15 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I really don't understand how river cruise companies worked out a promising business plan for ships designed for either the Elbe or the Loire.  Both 'rivers' seem to resemble gravel pits more often than not...

 

It was certainly a bold move by CroisiEurope to build a ship for the Loire, this being the first ever cruise ship on that river. The Elbe has a longer history of travel for leisure and the paddle wheel design is tried and tested. But I agree that the ship is not so much the problem for the companies, but turning it into a sensible business economically is the challenge.

 

I honestly think Viking should abandon the idea of combining the cruise with Prague. Berlin coach to ship at a reasonably close port with coach day excursion to Dresden would be closer to the truth of what is doable for them on the river. Then return via a short stretch of the Elbe downstream from Magdeburg might be better. But even that is a gamble. If all fails they could apply for a licence for even shorter boats on the Mecklenburgische Seenplatte, Mecklenburg's lake district: https://www.visit1000lakes.com/

Joking aside, perhaps an outing when in Wittenberge downstream from Magdeburg to the lakes could be nice. Doable in one hour by car one way.

 

notamermaid

 

[suspaul]

Having done the Elbe River Cruise in April of this year I’m glad to say we had no water issues but do feel sorry for those whose river cruises are bus tours.  What I don’t understand is why Viking even offers this cruise after April/May?  

 

I do realize that water levels are always a crapshoot, you never know if they’re going to be too high, too low or just right but it seems the Elbe has always been a problematic cruise.  Just my opinion.

[AnhaltER1960]

On 8/20/2019 at 10:34 PM, notamermaid said:

@AnhalterER1960, are steamships sailing out of Dresden?

 

notamermaid

 

 

@ notamermaid, , I havent been to Dresden in recent weeks, so I cannot say from own observations. But the internet said that the "white fleet" did not run their complete schedule. At least that was the situation at the time of your question. Now the situation has changed as a result of this weeks rainfall in Bohemia. There is quite some wave coming down the Elbe - just not sure, how long. 

[notamermaid]

Thanks, AnhalterER1960. I thought the boats must be affected to some extent.

 

I have had a look, you are right, the rain has improved the situation, Dresden being currently at 89cm. But as it peaked at 100cm this morning, I am not too hopeful this will last. As you said, not sure how long...

 

So, if one wanted to travel on an Elbe steamboat, what would it be like? Here is a nice report on one journey: https://www.dw.com/en/bridging-the-past-and-present-in-and-around-dresden/a-50091270

 

notamermaid

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by notamermaid
added link

[notamermaid]

No news is good news... not on the Elbe. Just to keep you informed, here is the graph of what the river level at Dresden has been like in the last 31 days:

 

 

Quick explanation: The line MNW means mean low water, a statistical value. That figure or any below it is useless for decent sailing on a river cruise ship. The spike of 100cm looked promising but less rain fell in that region than in other river basins so the level quickly dropped again.

 

Just in case anyone wants to have a look at last year's thread on the Elbe can have a look here: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2516541-the-elbe-river-2018-not-just-water-levels/

It starts off with some nice info and becomes more dire as the year progresses...

 

The heat will finally break on Sunday, hopefully bringing rain to the Upper Elbe (i.e. the Czech Republic and the border region). This looks most likely on Monday. A chance for the Elbe?

 

 

notamermaid

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by notamermaid
grammar

[oldgeez]

On 8/29/2019 at 12:31 PM, notamermaid said:

No news is good news... not on the Elbe.

 

We're about to head to the airport on our way to Berlin, Prague, and a couple of boatels. 

 

There's an awful lot of noise on Cruise Critic, but the posts from notamermaid have been really useful and appreciated. Thank you.

 

 

.

[notamermaid]

My pleasure, oldgeez.

 

I hope you are having a great time despite the non-sailing.

 

The river is still not seeing any real improvement.

 

I remember smiling at your use of the word boatel when I first read it here. Yup, that describes the non-sailing ship perfectly I thought.

 

If it has not been used before your posts and you have coined a new word, it should enter the Oxford English Dictionary very quickly. 

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

32 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

My pleasure, oldgeez.

 

I hope you are having a great time despite the non-sailing.

 

The river is still not seeing any real improvement.

 

I remember smiling at your use of the word boatel when I first read it here. Yup, that describes the non-sailing ship perfectly I thought.

 

If it has not been used before your posts and you have coined a new word, it should enter the Oxford English Dictionary very quickly. 

 

notamermaid

 

It was the name of a marina at Beaverton, Ontario (the Beaverton Boatel) on Lake Simcoe more than 50 years ago. We docked a houseboat there for a season.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

It was the name of a marina at Beaverton, Ontario (the Beaverton Boatel) on Lake Simcoe more than 50 years ago. We docked a houseboat there for a season.

Oh well, not new then. Houseboat rental sounds good. There are probably some people who do that sort of thing on the Elbe, too. Somewhere along the quite long river...

 

Without wanting to sound sarcastic: I think currently "The Elbe Viking Boatel" is quite a fitting term for the two ships moored for weeks on end.

 

Tomorrow, the region, i.e. the river and the tributaries in the Czech Republic, will finally see a substantial amount of rain. But it is the only day within the next six. It will feed the thirsty plants but if it is enough to raise the river level substantially for more than three days I am sceptical about.

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

3 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Without wanting to sound sarcastic: I think currently "The Elbe Viking Boatel" is quite a fitting term for the two ships moored for weeks on end.

 

notamermaid

 

I agree entirely.

[G.M.T.]

9 hours ago, notamermaid said:

My pleasure, oldgeez.

 

I hope you are having a great time despite the non-sailing.

 

The river is still not seeing any real improvement.

 

I remember smiling at your use of the word boatel when I first read it here. Yup, that describes the non-sailing ship perfectly I thought.

 

If it has not been used before your posts and you have coined a new word, it should enter the Oxford English Dictionary very quickly. 

 

notamermaid

 

Passau has Rotel!

 

[suspaul]

On 9/8/2019 at 5:01 PM, G.M.T. said:

Passau has Rotel!

 

 

No way...no how!  1 communal toilet and no shower, give me the boatel anytime over this!  

[G.M.T.]

5 hours ago, suspaul said:

 

No way...no how!  1 communal toilet and no shower, give me the boatel anytime over this!  

Every tree is a toilet and every bucket a shower - that is luxury.

[geekette]

I posted before about our Elbe booking for this summer, which was turned into a "boatel" trip, so we cancelled.  Viking was very quick to refund all the payments.  

We rebooked the same itinerary for May 5, 2020, which will encompass my Mom's 85th birthday.  We're hoping very much that the ships will still be sailing that early in the season!

[G.M.T.]

9 hours ago, geekette said:

I posted before about our Elbe booking for this summer, which was turned into a "boatel" trip, so we cancelled.  Viking was very quick to refund all the payments.  

We rebooked the same itinerary for May 5, 2020, which will encompass my Mom's 85th birthday.  We're hoping very much that the ships will still be sailing that early in the season!

Good luck with the Elbe water levels for next year, I think the situation will be the same as this and last year.

 

Rhine or Danube cruises are a better bet.

[notamermaid]

On 10 September the level at Dresden rose to over 100cm - for about six hours. I wonder if Viking did some relocating of ships... Well, the window of opportunity was not long (two days perhaps?) and now Dresden is back at 65cm.

 

But visiting Dresden is sure to be a delight - I have never been there - and to relive memories or as an appetizer, here is a short 360 degrees video by Deutsche Welle: https://www.dw.com/en/the-baroque-city-of-dresden-in-360/a-40294060

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Let us revisit the Elbe. You have probably guessed, the river levels are not good and the outlook into next week is bleak, according to the latest low water report by the German authorities.

 

This is the last 14 months along the rivers taken from the BAfG website:

May I draw your attention to the red graph at the bottom. That is Magdeburg on the Elbe. On many, many days over the last 14 months the levels were below the figure that is relevant for navigation, that is the dotted line. I am not saying that ships could not sail but that it impaired shipping to a lesser or greater degree. Details who actually sailed would have to be obtained from the respective cruise line.

 

What one can also see comparing the graphs is that while all other stations on the respective rivers depicted here show better levels this late summer into early autumn than last, the Elbe at Magdeburg has been as bad as last year.

 

It sure is not comforting when considering booking a river cruise on the Elbe for 2020.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

When looking at the Viking river cruises website, you will notice from the map of course that the ships do not sail from or to Magdeburg. The stretch of river is cut out by doing the trip by coach from Berlin to Wittenberg (or vice versa). So all fine for sailing if Magdeburg is the problem bit? Not really. While I cannot give you long term data, I can give you the figures at Wittenberg for the last 30 days:

 

The line above the graph called MNW is the statistical figure for mean low water. The line below the graph is the figure for lowest low water level recorded (in modern times).

 

It does not look much better than Magdeburg. All gauges along the German Elbe from the border downstream towards and including Magdeburg are on statistical low water status.

 

Current figures: Dresden 65cm, Wittenberg 87cm, Magdeburg-Strombrücke 58cm.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

Surprise surprise. At a time when (nearly) everybody thought, that would be it for the season, Viking will be sailing again. The Tours starting around Oct 10th they will at least sail Dresden-Wittenberg and the other way round (didnt memorize the exact dates)

[Winedogs]

Notamermaid-

I have been looking at the bfg (https://www.bafg.de/EN/06_Info_Service/01_WaterLevels/waterlevels_node.html

website over the last few weeks. I see that the Elbe route has gone from orange to green (low to mean water levels). I am happy because our Viking Elegant Elbe trip starts on November 5th. I'm hoping this will mean cruising and not a boatel, though we have made to decision to continue our trip even if no sailing.

would the increase in water level be all due to recent rain and do you know what minimum cm levels need to be?

thank you for your help.

debbie