Prepaid tips vs cash

[not-enough-cruising]

21 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

Wasn't the 4th one for the Head Waiter (Maitre 'D) so he can get his whopping .75 pp/pd?

I think you are right, there was one for the Head Waiter. 

[mayleeman]

Sometimes when auto gratuities are cancelled the supervisors will conclude that a passenger is dissatisfied. We sailed on the FOS for our 1st ever cruise years ago and I remember being asked why we cancelled the autos, and was it because we were unhappy. I told them that just like in restaurants here at home, I wanted to tip more than the suggestion because we were very happy. 

 

This works only where the tips are earned only by the staff with whom you have actual contact. Now that we know far more about crew salary structures, we will leave autos in place and give extra in cash to regular servers and the steward. Those might get divvied up, but the goal is not to sneak something by the pool--it is to express our aporeciation. 

 

Reading crew forums is a great education. Anyone thinking they are proving an ideological point by "refusing to make up for cruiselines' dismal salary structure" thru auto tips should realize that they are actually enhancing the lines' feudalistic control over some of the lowest paid service workers they will ever meet. 

 

As mentioned, withholding auto gratuities can be misinterpreted by supervisors, and can count as negative feedback. So, to ensure you don't accidentally get someone in trouble, may I suggest that the cash tippers also jot a note to supervisors expressing their happiness with tip recipients? Good passenger comments often cause recipients to get bonuses in the form of internet time or an extra hour in a port. Something we don't see, but very much appreciated by crew.

Edited February 21, 2019 by mayleeman
clarified 2nd parag

[Cruiselover0426]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This is the way I still handle it, cancel the auto grats and hand out my envelopes (3 now since the dissolution of the assistant steward)

That is what I do and stated on here and boy did I get slammed. Unreal. 

[Cruiselover0426]

5 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Yes, gratuities are optional but that doesn't meant they shouldn't be paid, unless the service is substandard. Tips make up most of the total salary of tipped employees (whether anyone likes that or not. And in land based establishments they are taxed on what the customer should have left so if that is below the standard amount the employee is hurt even more).

Mam, I state clearly in my OP that I do tip just not automatically.

[jon76indc]

This is always a tough topic ... since everyone has valid and mostly true opinions on the matter on either side of the coin.  I personally hate feeling like I have to pay the tips for anything other than service rendered ... but I do since I understand why the cruise lines do it ... and still tip extra when excellent service is rendered.

 

At the end of the day, right or wrong, RCL's primary fiduciary responsibility is to its shareholders (of which I happen to be one).  By paying most of the ship board staff a basic wage and catching them up on the rest through "tips", they are offloading that piece of the compensation pie off onto us passengers and removing it from their balance sheet.  This is also the reason it is so easy to remove tips for almost any reason .. if any conditions were placed on the ability of passengers to change or remove their gratuities, they would no longer be considered tips and would have to be reported on the company's balance sheet.

 

People often ask why they don't simply include the gratuities as part of the cruise fare.  I agree with that ... but its not quite that simple.  Once they do that ... that money becomes an operating expense on the company balance sheet, which will reduce the companies net income by x amount.  But now they will have likely need to make up the difference somewhere so that they meet or beat the street and what the Wall Street analysts are expecting.  So by including the gratuities in the cruise fare, not only would your cruise fare go up ... but prices elsewhere would likely go up to some degree as well to blunt the impact of the increased payroll expenses that are now on the corporate balance sheet.  

 

You notice the fares on a lot of the luxury cruise lines that already include tips in the price of the fare are usually quite a bit higher ... its not entirely because of the luxuries included ... a chunk of it is also the additional impact on their operating expenses in regards to payroll.

 

So long story short, unless people want to pay higher fares and likely higher prices on some add-ons (drink packages, excursions, anything) ... were stuck with the current system ... and all the complaints that go along with it :)

 

[HBE4]

21 minutes ago, Cruiselover0426 said:

That is what I do and stated on here and boy did I get slammed. Unreal. 

 

People are very passionate about tipping.

 

I'm an average tipper. Sometimes when I'm having a real good time and the drinks are flowing, I'm an above average tipper. But I don't brag about it like I'm solving third-world poverty. And I never really pay attention to what others tip or don't tip. That's between them and their servers. I don't tell others how to spend their money.

[jon76indc]

28 minutes ago, jon76indc said:

This is always a tough topic ... since everyone has valid and mostly true opinions on the matter on either side of the coin.  I personally hate feeling like I have to pay the tips for anything other than service rendered ... but I do since I understand why the cruise lines do it ... and still tip extra when excellent service is rendered.

 

At the end of the day, right or wrong, RCL's primary fiduciary responsibility is to its shareholders (of which I happen to be one).  By paying most of the ship board staff a basic wage and catching them up on the rest through "tips", they are offloading that piece of the compensation pie off onto us passengers and removing it from their balance sheet.  This is also the reason it is so easy to remove tips for almost any reason .. if any conditions were placed on the ability of passengers to change or remove their gratuities, they would no longer be considered tips and would have to be reported on the company's balance sheet.

 

People often ask why they don't simply include the gratuities as part of the cruise fare.  I agree with that ... but its not quite that simple.  Once they do that ... that money becomes an operating expense on the company balance sheet, which will reduce the companies net income by x amount.  But now they will have likely need to make up the difference somewhere so that they meet or beat the street and what the Wall Street analysts are expecting.  So by including the gratuities in the cruise fare, not only would your cruise fare go up ... but prices elsewhere would likely go up to some degree as well to blunt the impact of the increased payroll expenses that are now on the corporate balance sheet.  

 

You notice the fares on a lot of the luxury cruise lines that already include tips in the price of the fare are usually quite a bit higher ... its not entirely because of the luxuries included ... a chunk of it is also the additional impact on their operating expenses in regards to payroll.

 

So long story short, unless people want to pay higher fares and likely higher prices on some add-ons (drink packages, excursions, anything) ... were stuck with the current system ... and all the complaints that go along with it 🙂

 

UGH ... hit submit reply instead of cancelling my post ... please ignore my post LOL. The reason why they do it in my post is still valid ... but the 3rd and 4th paragraphs aren't accurate as there is no material impact to the bottom line if gratuity amount is added to the cruise fare.  Thats what I get for starting a post after a long day at work 🙂

[Thorben-Hendrik]

9 hours ago, laslomas said:

They even provided the envelopes to assist the process.

LOL 😂

[mayleeman]

3 hours ago, jon76indc said:

UGH ... hit submit reply instead of cancelling my post ... please ignore my post LOL. The reason why they do it in my post is still valid ... but the 3rd and 4th paragraphs aren't accurate as there is no material impact to the bottom line if gratuity amount is added to the cruise fare.  Thats what I get for starting a post after a long day at work 🙂

I kind of liked it as is. Basically, if we pay more via tips, we pay less overall.

 

Of course, that works in our favor only if the tips in total do not equal the total wages the line would have to pay. Meaning someone in the tipping pool is likely getting screwed.

[Thorben-Hendrik]

Well the more you tip the less the line pays its workers....so at the end of the day it doesn't matter if you tip or not! 🙄

[tbillcruising]

My goodness. What a hot topic!  I agree that gratuities are discretional. It is up to each individual to tip as they see fit.  I do not allow tips to be added to my sea pass account.  I tip in cash.  I don't care to be blasted for that either.  It is a personal issue and everyone has a right to spend their hard earned money as they see fit.  

[brillohead]

10 hours ago, laslomas said:

Some years ago, before the auto gratuities were thought of, we were asked to put tips into envelopes for - Cabin Steward, Assistant Steward, Waiter, and Assistant Waiter. They even provided the envelopes to assist the process. These were the people expected to receive tips from the passengers. People we saw and interacted with, and were happy to tip.

 

So when did Royal Caribbean decide to include all the backroom workers in the tipping pool?  Was it ten years ago, or fifteen? What I do know is that it must have been when they decided on the new format of the auto gratuity. Then they could pass some of it on to the workers in the background, the hotel services, as they had control of our tips. It must save the company quite a bit of money as the passengers were now contributing to the wages of the workers we did not meet face to face, that were previously paid in full by RCI. We were not expected to pay towards this wage bill in the past, so why is it now so important to help out RCI like this? They paid their hotel services and laundry staff previously without the help of the auto gratuities.

 

You're going to be paying it, one way or another.  Why the big HISSY FIT over the method?

New York City just enacted a minimum wage hike to $15/hour.... and food prices went up in restaurants.  Go figure!  The wage money has to come from somewhere.

The company has always used passenger money to pay the workers.  The company will continue to always use passenger money to pay wages.  That money will either be in the form of cruise fare or gratuities / tips / daily service charge.  But the fact of the matter is that it's ALWAYS the customer's money that pays ANY company's expenses.  That's kinda how businesses work.

[tbillcruising]

12 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

You are so generous.  I'm sure the 98% of tipped crew who you stiffed appreciate your generosity very much.  Maybe on your next cruise they will all throw a gala in your honor.

 

What does this even mean? This doesn't even make sense.

[tbillcruising]

20 hours ago, Merion_Mom said:

Yes, you would be upsetting the apple  cart.  Your daily gratuities go to the housekeeping staff, mainly your cabin steward, plus the restaurant staff, for all of the venues on the ship, mostly to your assigned wait team in the main dining room.

 

Just leave the auto-gratuities on and tip anyone else what you wish.  That is the fairest way.

 

IMO.  Of course.  😄

 

What apple cart?  Why would I want to tip people in venues that I don't even go to?  No auto-gratuities for me. 

[mayleeman]

People often claim to base higher tips on the quality of service they are given. However, over 45 years of dining and travelling convinces me that customers who decide to reduce tips often do so because of things they associate with service quality that are not in the control of the server.  Food incorrectly prepared, wine unavailable, dirty table linens, slow kitchen, whatever. In a restaurant, servers rely on lots of other people to create a memorable dining experience. Same with a ship, where the same goes for the steward who is the representative of dozens of behind the scenes workers.

 

Cruise lines may have changed tipping to include non-front-line personnel to reduce salaries, as alleged, but spreading the tips out among all support personnel helps ensure that the relationships among the staff work smoothly, too. A kitchen that knows the tip part of its wage depends on delicious and prompt food will try to ensure that is what the server brings to your table, and so on down the line.

 

I do hope that everyone, especially the mega-cruisers, saying the cruise lines should pay better (instead of foisting salaries onto passengers) always remembers to notify the cruise lines of that concern. Refusing to accept auto gratuities doesn't exactly make much of an impact if the alleged concern is pay practices.

Edited February 22, 2019 by mayleeman
fixed garbled word

[Scotty G]

1 hour ago, tbillcruising said:

 

Why would I want to tip people in venues that I don't even go to?  No auto-gratuities for me. 

 

So how do you tip the housekeeping staff that cleans the public restrooms and keeps the passageways and stairways clean?

[Thorben-Hendrik]

1 hour ago, Scotty G said:

 

So how do you tip the housekeeping staff that cleans the public restrooms and keeps the passageways and stairways clean?

Why do you have that urge to tip them? 🤔

[mayleeman]

6 hours ago, Thorben-Hendrik said:

Why do you have that urge to tip them? 🤔

Two primary reasons come to mind:

1) they provide essential services to you; and 2) their wages are in part determined by tips.

 

On #1, it involves accepting that the service economy on a ship is broader than most people are used to in places they traditionally tip (and tipping is not part of the culture in many countries anyway). But if the justification is "I only tip for exceptional service" then recognizing all who provide essential services is fair.

 

On the second, if you know someone out of sight depends on tipping and expressly try to exclude that person, you should be asking why you have that desire. If you had a bad experience, that is one thing. If, however, you just have a theoretical objection to broadly based tipping, perhaps the fact that you are not in direct contact with some staff allows you to rationalize not tipping them when you would be unwilling to do that to a steward or waiter.

 

Considering how often I have seen people walk away from wonderful dinners in nice restaurants leaving a $5 tip for a >$100 meal, it is also possible some people willing to spend thousands on cruises are just cheap when it comes to the hired help. Out of sight, out of mind.

[steevo L]

while prepaid gratuities is easier, I have seen enough workers on several cruises who didnt do their jobs, were rude, and only got tipped because they were auto paid. On my last cruise, the couple next door had a horrible room guy who actually stole their review of how the week went because they checked off he was terrible.  Luckily, my travel agent always prices the gratuities in so I dont have to think about them.

 

I wish you could purchase the beverage package without auto tips and gratuities, I would rather tip all the bartenders on my own. Some bartenders on the ships are just plain awesome, while the others are just terrible.

[Sam Ting]

4 minutes ago, mayleeman said:

Two primary reasons come to mind:

1) they provide essential services to you; and 2) their wages are in part determined by tips.

 

On #1, it involves accepting that the service economy on a ship is broader than most people are used to in places they traditionally tip (and tipping is not part of the culture in many countries anyway). But if the justification is "I only tip for exceptional service" then recognizing all who provide essential services is fair.

 

On the second, if you know someone out of sight depends on tipping and expressly try to exclude that person, you should be asking why you have that desire. If you had a bad experience, that is one thing. If, however, you just have a theoretical objection to broadly based tipping, perhaps the fact that you are not in direct contact with some staff allows you to rationalize not tipping them when you would be unwilling to do that to a steward or waiter.

 

Considering how often I have seen people walk away from wonderful dinners in nice restaurants leaving a $5 tip for a >$100 meal, it is also possible some people willing to spend thousands on cruises are just cheap when it comes to the hired help. Out of sight, out of mind.

Actually they provide essential services to the billion dollar cruiseline to maintain their ships. Why people think they have the responsibility to donate to the company so they can pay its employees is strange. 

[dpostman]

I'm wondering if I can go to Guest Services or the Casino Window and get $20 US bills broken down in 1, 2 and 5s.  It is easy here in Canada to get $20 bills from some ATM machines but smaller bills are a bit more of a challenge and take up more room to travel with.  Especially for a 12 night cruise.

 

We leave the Auto-grats on and like to use smaller bills for bartenders and wandering bar servers.

 

Thanks

dp

[Clarea]

5 minutes ago, dpostman said:

I'm wondering if I can go to Guest Services or the Casino Window and get $20 US bills broken down in 1, 2 and 5s.  It is easy here in Canada to get $20 bills from some ATM machines but smaller bills are a bit more of a challenge and take up more room to travel with.  Especially for a 12 night cruise.

 

We leave the Auto-grats on and like to use smaller bills for bartenders and wandering bar servers.

 

Thanks

dp

 

You can normally get limited amounts of change (except for the $2 bills) at Guest Services.

[Bee Guy]

5 minutes ago, dpostman said:

I'm wondering if I can go to Guest Services or the Casino Window and get $20 US bills broken down in 1, 2 and 5s.  It is easy here in Canada to get $20 bills from some ATM machines but smaller bills are a bit more of a challenge and take up more room to travel with.  Especially for a 12 night cruise.

 

We leave the Auto-grats on and like to use smaller bills for bartenders and wandering bar servers.

 

Thanks

dp

$1 & $5 may be easier to come by than $2 as they are rather uncommon.   I go to a bank and request them before the cruise.

[Trex827]

Has anyone asked their room steward if he turns in a cash tip to the tip pool? Or does it go in his pocket?



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[dpostman]

7 minutes ago, Host Clarea said:

 

You can normally get limited amounts of change (except for the $2 bills) at Guest Services.

4 minutes ago, Bee Guy said:

$1 & $5 may be easier to come by than $2 as they are rather uncommon.   I go to a bank and request them before the cruise.

 

OK thanks.  I forgot about the 2 dollar bills.  Last time we cruised, I went to the bank here and got a bunch small bills, and for some reason, they had a bunch of 2 dollar bills on hand.

 

I'm hoping to be able to go to GS and have $20 or $40 broken down.  And I can just go back when I need more.

 

dp