When will WiFi be free on Celebrity?

[yorky]

8 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

You really can’t compare the free WiFi on Oceania or Viking to Celebrity. If the WiFi was free on a 3000 passenger ship the number of users would slow it to a crawl. With current tech some kind of fee is still needed to ration the bandwidth. I think it should be lower on Celebrity than it is but free would probably make it unusable. Oceania and Viking have far fewer passengers sharing bandwidth.


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To be fair next to normal speeds these days it’s already crawling. We never drop below a speed of 200 in our home. I bet it hardly ever reaches 10 on a Celebrity ship, it should never be described as “ high speed”.

[mfs2k]

Some people are masters of the obvious. 

  

I think if anyone read my original post they’d see by “free” I meant “included”

 

Even the marine grade toilet paper some believe is being stolen off ships (as per another thread) isn’t “free.”  I know this. 

 

To the poster above, who is in the satellite business: Thank you for your valuable, informed input. It was an interesting read. 

[mfs2k]

4 hours ago, yorky said:

To be fair next to normal speeds these days it’s already crawling. We never drop below a speed of 200 in our home. I bet it hardly ever reaches 10 on a Celebrity ship, it should never be described as “ high speed”.

 

I think you’re giving them way too much credit. I suspect it rarely exceeds 1-2 Mbps on board but there are free apps to check that. Someone can provide a more accurate number. 

[Bo1953]

"Imagine there's no free internet
It's easy if you try
No signals below us
Above us only satellites that fly by...
Imagine all the people not connected today"

 

Accolades to John Lennon

 

Imagine free alcohol available to all....

It's very easy if you try

With all these 'freebies' imagine how everyone's fares will go up

Food and service quality goes up, too

Imagine all the happy passengers sailing with reasonable fares today

 

Imagine all these being Universal Rights when sailing today without any added fees...

 

I do believe that WiFi can be included at no additional charge, if one gets Perks, which are added into the fare in the long run, as can be beverages, service charges and OBC. Our choice on what to include if it is only one (1) or all four (4) or any combination in-between.

 

What is included in your package, if you took one or a lower fare which does not include Perks?

 

bon voyage

Edited March 5, 2019 by Bo1953

[Charles4515]

 
I think you’re giving them way too much credit. I suspect it rarely exceeds 1-2 Mbps on board but there are free apps to check that. Someone can provide a more accurate number. 

It varies by ship. Newer are faster. By itinerary, the speeds are slower on northern latitudes. I have measured 3-4.


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[Tourist1292]

15 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

I think you’re giving them way too much credit. I suspect it rarely exceeds 1-2 Mbps on board but there are free apps to check that. Someone can provide a more accurate number. 

If it is 1-2Mbps, it would not do streaming at all. They advertised for that and it would need to be around 10 times the speed of your suggested range. The actual speed depends on location and simultaneous network traffic, but there are some recent positive reviews at least on some of the ships.

[Charles4515]

  
I think if anyone read my original post they’d see by “free” I meant “included”
 

I agree with your original post that $200 to $300 is ridiculous. Free or included is semantics. We are still going to pay for it. I believe the ridiculous price on Celebrity is so they can inflate the value of the perks in their marketing.



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[mfs2k]

1 minute ago, Charles4515 said:

I agree with your original post that $200 to $300 is ridiculous. Free or included is semantics. We are still going to pay for it. I believe the ridiculous price on Celebrity is so they can inflate the value of the perks in their marketing. 

 

100%. 

[Charles4515]

If it is 1-2Mbps, it would not do streaming at all. They advertised for that and it would need to be around 10 times the speed of your suggested range. The actual speed depends on location and simultaneous network traffic, but there are some recent positive reviews at least on some of the ships.

I was able to stream Game of Thrones a couple of years ago a little bit with annoying buffering. Did get thru one episode. I was getting 3-4. Location does matter.

I really don’t want to stream. Just message, email, Twitter and download the digital New York Times to read later at my leisure. I have been able to do that.


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[mayleeman]

51 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

5 hours ago, yorky said:

To be fair next to normal speeds these days it’s already crawling. We never drop below a speed of 200 in our home. I bet it hardly ever reaches 10 on a Celebrity ship, it should never be described as “ high speed”.

 

I think you’re giving them way too much credit. I suspect it rarely exceeds 1-2 Mbps on board but there are free apps to check that. Someone can provide a more accurate number. 

That's funny--with everyone complaining about the speed so much, I assumed the post by Yorky was Kbps. When I had satellite internet, 1-2 Mbps would have seemed blazing fast. Normally for us it was about 80 to 160 Kbps download (with bursts up to 300!), and 60 or so upload.

[cgolf1]

39 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

100%. 

 

Your argument is so flawed it is bordering on ridiculous.

 

This internet thing isn't free, maybe I will tell my provider at home that it should be free and see what happens when I don't pay the bill;) Of course cruise lines could use it as a marketing tool to draw people in, but if they choose not to that is their choice. Like some has said they can add it as a free perk option or as a loyalty thing. If it were free would more sail, maybe?

 

For us I couldn't care less, I like being unplugged for a week and that won't change either way. Also do you really think that a cruise line will give away something like this without bumping the price?

 

I don't follow Celebrity, but over the last few years we have watched Disney's cruise prices more than double while they were taking away perks and freebies, not adding things for the more money you were paying! I hope Celebrity and RCCL are different.

[mfs2k]

20 minutes ago, cgolf1 said:

maybe I will tell my provider at home that it should be free and see what happens when I don't pay the bill;)

 

It's not comparable.   

This is about what lodging/vacation sites choose to charge additionally to their guests.  GUESTS is the operative word.  We are their GUESTS.  Do you charge your guests in your home for your WiFi?   

 

Most hotels around the world have stopped charging guests for Wifi.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by mfs2k

[Charles4515]

 
Only someone uninformed and argumentative would compare home Wifi service to access on vacation.  They're not comparable.   
This is about what lodging/vacation sites choose to charge additionally to their guests.  GUESTS is the operative word.  We are their GUESTS.  Do you charge your guests in your home for your WiFi?   
 
Most hotels around the world have stopped charging guests for Wifi.  

Hotels are hooked up to the internet with fiber lines not satellite. Lot cheaper costs. To get it free have to be a member of their loyalty program. Or they have a free tier and a high speed for pay tier. Or have to sign up for marketing.






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[cgolf1]

15 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

It's not comparable.   

This is about what lodging/vacation sites choose to charge additionally to their guests.  GUESTS is the operative word.  We are their GUESTS.  Do you charge your guests in your home for your WiFi?   

 

Most hotels around the world have stopped charging guests for Wifi.  

 

Hotels have cruise lines haven't. With the recent trend in diminishing benefits and higher cruise fares, I really don't want to give the cruise lines a reason to increase the price further. Just because some places make it free doesn't mean everyone has to. Would be interesting though to see if RCCL did for example, what it would do to their booking levels and if other people would leave lines like Disney just to get free internet. 

 

Also like others are saying, satellite is more expensive then a land based internet.

 

My wife's thought on getting the younger generation onboard is lower prices, not higher prices.

Edited March 5, 2019 by cgolf1

[mfs2k]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

To get it free have to be a member of their loyalty program. Or they have a free tier and a high speed for pay tier. Or have to sign up for marketing.

 

None of that, except higher speed tiers, costs anything extra to the consumer. 

 

Most hotels are basically including usable wifi access in the room rate. 

[Charles4515]

 
Second, I am actually in the Satellite Internet business and have been for over 10 years. It costs over $100 million to put a modern satellite in orbit, and that does not include the ground stations required to complete the connection to the net. Somebody invested money to do that and they are entitled to a return on their investment. The cost of Internet on a ship is classic supply and demand. There is high demand and very limited supply. Only in the past couple of years have the two main providers started dedicating large amounts of their capacity to ships and planes. It is now their fastest growing segment. Since they can only put a new satellite up every 12 to 18 months, capacity will not come quickly. Supply may catch up but even then, you will never have more than one option on one ship, so internet access is going to have strong marketing value to the lines.
 

Since you are in the business I have a question for you. SpaceX and some other companies have announced plans to launch thousands of low orbit satellites a year over the next few years. So wouldn’t that increase capacity quite a lot? Is that real or are those plans a lot of hype?



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[bikerunner]

Why people say its free is just how they perceive it, that's all.  Hotels it is not free, its built into the price, some hotels have resort fees etc. I know when I was managing hotels and the wifi thing was coming in, at first it was a charge for guests and then we so called went "free" but also adjusted our prices 10-20 a night per room. Its all built into the pricing, personally I want it to stay a la carte since its not something I care to use on vacations.  If I wanted everything free I would pick one of the all inclusive lines and pay there prices.  Celebrity prices, though going up, I still find a good cost benefit overall compared to other lines and what I enjoy. 

[Charles4515]

 
None of that, except higher speed tiers, costs anything extra to the consumer. 
 
Most hotels are basically including usable wifi access in the room rate. 

The room rates have gone up or they charge resort fees which are in the fine print, not the quoted rate. I as a consumer am paying, the cost is passed on, even though I don’t use the hotel Wi-Fi. I have an unlimited cell plan and my AT&T LTE is much better than hotel Wi-Fi, plus it is more secure. I would not use hotel WiFi without a VPN.


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[tbugstwo]

Just book a suite and you will get it for free. Or cruise enough to make Zenith! 

[mfs2k]

I get that building and operating a cruise ship is expensive, and marketing so many rooms at such a high cost is competitive.

 

Cruise lines want to be able to advertise the lowest possible published fares, to compete with other cruise lines, so that buyers making a decision based on price, aren't turned off.

That's why "Prices Starting at $919 per person" ends up costing more than $919 per person when you're all done paying for your cabin, gratuities, alcohol, soda, internet, specialty dining, excursions, spa appointments, yoga classes, and cappuccinos.  Cruiselines need to make as much revenue as possible to pay their costs.  I read in an article recently the average guest on a cruise pays about $450 per person for additional costs, after they've booked their cruise.  Cruise lines count on this added revenue.

 

It's a marketing choice to show a base price as low as possible, because this is what appears on OTA sites  (Online Travel Agent) and on the cruise line website. 

 

The main point I'm trying to make here is, in a changing demographic market, internet while not essential for everyone, (obvs from the responses)  is an essential service to most (not all) people under age 40 now. (at least they think it's essential.)

 

Some cruise lines have base fares which have very little included and others include these services in the base fare.  

I think All Inclusive resorts have tapped into a market where a buyer knows exactly what his/her cost is, when they make the buy decision, and there are very few add-ons unless they want a premium service (romantic dinner for two on the beach, private cabana, or an excursion)  Most people don't have to pay any more than they originally committed to, and have a great time.

 

I'm not saying this will happen, but I do predict more and more cruise lines will start incorporating WiFi into their base fare over the next five years for the reasons I outlined in my original post.   

 

Come back to this spot in 2024 and we can see if I was correct.

 

 

 

[mfs2k]

9 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

The room rates have gone up or they charge resort fees which are in the fine print, not the quoted rate. I as a consumer am paying, the cost is passed on, even though I don’t use the hotel Wi-Fi. I have an unlimited cell plan and my AT&T LTE is much better than hotel Wi-Fi, plus it is more secure. I would not use hotel WiFi without a VPN.


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Room rates have NOT gone up for many hotels.   In NYC, Average room rates are still lower than they were in 2009.

 

Many hotels are struggling because of rate resistance and competition, particularly from AirBNB and the ability for consumers to competitively shop, and rates can't go higher or they sacrifice occupancy.  

[Charles4515]

3 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

Come back to this spot in 2024 and we can see if I was correct.

 

 

 

 

You could be right but you are not the first to predict WiFi would be included by some date. I recall several threads going back at least seven years predicting free WiFi by 2015, 2017, 2019 etc. So far only on boutique cruise lines.

[Charles4515]

13 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

The main point I'm trying to make here is, in a changing demographic market, internet while not essential for everyone, (obvs from the responses)  is an essential service to most (not all) people under age 40 now. (at least they think it's essential.)

 

 

In January I did a cruise with a group on Royal Caribbean. The unlimited Voom and Stream WiFi was only $85 for the seven days. I purchased it but the younger folk who booked inside cabins, none thought it was essential enough to buy the package. Our group met on the interent yet out of about 20 cabins only 5 bought internet. So interent on a cruise may not be as essential as you believe while n vacation.

[bikerunner]

4 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

Room rates have NOT gone up for many hotels.   In NYC, Average room rates are still lower than they were in 2009.

 

Many hotels are struggling because of rate resistance and competition, particularly from AirBNB and the ability for consumers to competitively shop, and rates can't go higher or they sacrifice occupancy.  

There is an over saturation in the market then of course there will be rate resistance.  The cruise industry is slowly getting there, with all the ships being pushed out but has not reached that point and still far off.  Just like hotels or anything in the tourist industry there is the basic supply vs demand.  The market, and cruise companys will shift as needed, there have been many adjustments from when I took my first cruise back in 2002.  Will eventually the wifi be included in the price, probably but it will be a shared cost among all people going on cruises.  The NYC prices are stagnant over the years but  also many hotels have cut back on services to save money, turn down service, some basic preventive maintenance has been stretched out, staffing has been reduced.  So there is always an adjustment in pricing, might not be seen in the price structure but overall companies are there to make money and will figure out ways to cut costs to make there margins needed to be successful.  Otherwise they would be out of business. 

[cgolf1]

14 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

Room rates have NOT gone up for many hotels.   In NYC, Average room rates are still lower than they were in 2009.

 

Many hotels are struggling because of rate resistance and competition, particularly from AirBNB and the ability for consumers to competitively shop, and rates can't go higher or they sacrifice occupancy.  

 

Watching what Disney is doing with price and still sailing mostly full is eye opening. They have more than doubled their rates in the times we would cruise them since 2016 and they are still going strong booking wise. I am really curious at what price point cruise lines will start to suffer.

 

Edge is its own beast, we loved it, but could see where some others wouldn't like it. I think we fit the high end age wise of their target market for that ship. I honestly am hesitant to try other Celebrity ships so we are sticking to E class and RCCL for now.