NCL Gratuities/Service Charges & Cabin Steward

[erdoran]

I do wonder....what is the appropriate response when someone does directly raise the tip issue - not in this inappropriate "give me 100% of the DSC to keep for myself" manner, but "I've worked really hard for you, give me a tip" or even worse "give me $xxx".  My instinct would be to say "Isn't that what the DSC is for?" and if I think they have gone above and beyond, I would leave extra the last morning as I leave, mainly to avoid confrontation if they think they should have gotten more than I left (for the steward I mean, the rest of staff would get an envelope probably the night before). 

[Outerdog]

38 minutes ago, erdoran said:

I do wonder....what is the appropriate response when someone does directly raise the tip issue - not in this inappropriate "give me 100% of the DSC to keep for myself" manner, but "I've worked really hard for you, give me a tip" or even worse "give me $xxx".  My instinct would be to say "Isn't that what the DSC is for?"

 

No. You tell somebody it's deadass inappropriate to ask.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Outerdog

[erdoran]

2 hours ago, latebloomer56 said:

Well this is a new one for us as well. We did ask at a meet and greet and were told the DSC was divided among several areas of service only personnel. The staff at kids club, show folk's, customer service, etc. do not get this. Also if you remove this DSC and give cash to each person you want to have a tip they can be discharged if they don't turn this in. 

Asked our steward on NCL if they worked the same as Princess and he told us pretty much. Any cash they receive they need to add the cabin # to the envelope and turn it in, once the (sorry forget who he said) person in charge checks and the fee hasn't been removed they get the envelope back if it has then the cash goes to the pot to be shared.

We do leave a little now and then but not always, I do go to the coffee bar for the person who took care of me for that trip generally even though I know they are part of the fee (DSC ,auto tip, whatever it's still a fee) but only if they are good.

So the steward discussed in this thread knew what she was doing could lead to being fired because I'm certain if she had received the "removed DSC" she wouldn't have turned it in--over and above confronting (to use OP's term) pax and asking people to remove DSC AND looking at other peoples' bills.

[thetaro]

She said that so she can pocket all the gratitude. This is probably violating the company's policy and could get her fired.

 

Edited April 1, 2019 by thetaro

[thetaro]

2 hours ago, erdoran said:

I do wonder....what is the appropriate response when someone does directly raise the tip issue - not in this inappropriate "give me 100% of the DSC to keep for myself" manner, but "I've worked really hard for you, give me a tip" or even worse "give me $xxx".  My instinct would be to say "Isn't that what the DSC is for?" and if I think they have gone above and beyond, I would leave extra the last morning as I leave, mainly to avoid confrontation if they think they should have gotten more than I left (for the steward I mean, the rest of staff would get an envelope probably the night before). 

 

I would just say I didn't hire you and you are barking at the wrong tree.

I would give tip when you go an extra mile to do me a favor, not when you just do your job which you are paid to do.

[1stTIMECRUZER]

19 hours ago, Love my butler said:

 

If the service your steward provided was average at best,  why did you feel the need to shower her with money throughout the week and give her even more money at the end?  Just curious.

We didn't shower her with money but rather left a bit here and there for service appreciated.  Definitely no "shower" of money.

[1stTIMECRUZER]

17 hours ago, OBSESSIVEWORLDTRAVELER said:

So your cabin steward confirmed they do get a portion of the funds from the Daily Service Charges. There have been conversations on CC about stewards and dining staff stating they don’t get anything and NCL is keeping 100% of it. I heard it myself when a guest asked a dining staff personnel cleaning tables about it and he said he gets nothing. Maybe your cabin steward has sinked to this level to make up for the guests who line up at the end of the cruise complaining about bad service and want their DSC refunded. It’s economics. The less money there is in the pot, the less each individual will potentially receive. 

Yes, as I recall she confirmed they got a little of it but very little.   I was so stunned by the conversation that I did not ask for detail.

[1stTIMECRUZER]

11 hours ago, Von & John said:

 

What ship were you on? 

 

We had a similar situation with our steward (also female) the night prior to disembarkation.  We had an add'l tip already planned for her.  She asked to speak to us privately in our room & mentioned that a number of the EE's had been talking & they didn't think the service charge distribution was fair.  Ultimately it was very awkward for us!  We were so taken aback at the time, we didn't know what to say (a first for me 🙂).  We let her know we were expected elsewhere & needed to depart.  Up until that point, she had been an amazing steward!  We debated over eliminating her additional tip.  In the end - we still gave her the full planned additional tip & kept the service charge in place.  Plus we had already provided a couple of Cruise Hero cards in her name.

 

However, it left a very sour note on our cruise for us - which I still struggle with today.  We decided against mentioning anything to the Hotel Director.  I would have preferred to mention it - so they could do retraining with the team.  However, I fully appreciate that instead - it most likely would have ended with disciplinary process &/or employment termination.   We were also asked not to tell anyone!

I have decided if this were to happen again, I would simply express the impact the conversation was having on my cruise satisfaction & that if it persisted no additional tip would be forthcoming.  We would possibly report it this time, dependent upon how the conversation went.

We were on the NCL Jewel.

[chengkp75]

19 hours ago, Love my butler said:

 

Yeah, on the last morning, waste your time reporting this poor girl and possibly get her fired.  That's the ticket.....

This poor girl should have been reported, as this is in direct violation of company policy, and something the staff are told will be a terminating offence when they first sign on the ship.

[chengkp75]

And a lot of the crew know that many cruisers think the crew are paid the old $2/day and the rest is DSC.  While the daily salary is still low, since the adoption of the MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention) in 2013, there is a minimum wage set for every person working on a ship, and if the combination of salary and DSC falls below this minimum, the company must make up the balance.  This minimum is currently $618/month, but that is for a 40 hour work week, and hours in excess of 40 in any 7 days must be paid at 125% of the base (they don't actually get paid hourly, but the company calculates a "blended" daily salary of straight hours and overtime hours, from both salary and DSC that meets the overtime requirement), and this minimum increases by 4.5% annually for the next two years.  If I remember right from the last time I did a calculation, this means that if the crew is working a 14 hour day, they make about $1600/month.  Now, only the $618 is guaranteed, so their salary can vary from $1600 to $618 depending on the DSC.

Edited April 1, 2019 by chengkp75

[Von & John]

51 minutes ago, 1stTIMECRUZER said:

We were on the NCL Jewel.

 

So were we...

Did the stewards name begin w/ an "M"?

[NLH Arizona]

29 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 Now, only the $618 is guaranteed, so their salary can vary from $1600 to $618 depending on the DSC.

Thank you for clarifying this for everyone.

[Von & John]

47 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This poor girl should have been reported, as this is in direct violation of company policy, and something the staff are told will be a terminating offence when they first sign on the ship.

 

Thanks chenkkp  --  I'll keep this in mind, if it ever happens again...

[spanishguy1970]

I would have reported her immediately, called the housekeeping manager. We always leave a tip a the end of the cruise for our steward in an envelope when we leave.

[ziggyuk]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And a lot of the crew know that many cruisers think the crew are paid the old $2/day and the rest is DSC.  While the daily salary is still low, since the adoption of the MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention) in 2013, there is a minimum wage set for every person working on a ship, and if the combination of salary and DSC falls below this minimum, the company must make up the balance.  This minimum is currently $618/month, but that is for a 40 hour work week, and hours in excess of 40 in any 7 days must be paid at 125% of the base (they don't actually get paid hourly, but the company calculates a "blended" daily salary of straight hours and overtime hours, from both salary and DSC that meets the overtime requirement), and this minimum increases by 4.5% annually for the next two years.  If I remember right from the last time I did a calculation, this means that if the crew is working a 14 hour day, they make about $1600/month.  Now, only the $618 is guaranteed, so their salary can vary from $1600 to $618 depending on the DSC.

 

This is what really annoys me, the first wedge of the DSC simply makes up the salary to the guaranteed legal minimum, an amount NCL would have to pay even if every guest removed the DSC, all we really do is pay wages on NCLs behalf.

 

This is perfectly demonstrated on the UK's undercover dispatches documentary on Celebrity, the undercover journalists salary and DSC did not make the legal minimum and Celebrity had to make up the shortfall, because the DSC did not exceed the legal minimum wage, he actually gained nothing extra from the generous passengers DSC and took home the same money if nobody had paid the DSC.

 

In a restaurant I now ask if the servers if they get all of the automatic service charge (when one is included) and if they say no I ask for it to be removed and pay the same figure or more as a cash tip.

 

So... the people who remove the DSC (which I will add we don't and can't with NCL in the UK) and pay cash really do have an argument, the cruise line still pay the legal minimum wage to everyone (even behind the scenes) and anything handed in cash goes in the staffs pockets. I accept this meant the behind the scenes people don't have to opportunity to earn above the legal minimum.

 

There is also this claim that all cash tips have to be handed in, who knows if that is true.

[Love my butler]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

And a lot of the crew know that many cruisers think the crew are paid the old $2/day and the rest is DSC.  While the daily salary is still low, since the adoption of the MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention) in 2013, there is a minimum wage set for every person working on a ship, and if the combination of salary and DSC falls below this minimum, the company must make up the balance.  This minimum is currently $618/month, but that is for a 40 hour work week, and hours in excess of 40 in any 7 days must be paid at 125% of the base (they don't actually get paid hourly, but the company calculates a "blended" daily salary of straight hours and overtime hours, from both salary and DSC that meets the overtime requirement), and this minimum increases by 4.5% annually for the next two years.  If I remember right from the last time I did a calculation, this means that if the crew is working a 14 hour day, they make about $1600/month.  Now, only the $618 is guaranteed, so their salary can vary from $1600 to $618 depending on the DSC.

Very few of the crew is working a 14 hour day.  Spend some time on the ship and you will know that.

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, Love my butler said:

Very few of the crew is working a 14 hour day.  Spend some time on the ship and you will know that.

I spent 4 years on cruise ships, and I know that the crew averages 12-14 hours per day.  Do you think this is high or low?  They cannot, by law, work more than 14 hours in any 24, and no more than 91 (average of 13 per day) hours in any 7 day period.

[ziggyuk]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

I spent 4 years on cruise ships, and I know that the crew averages 12-14 hours per day.  Do you think this is high or low?  They cannot, by law, work more than 14 hours in any 24, and no more than 91 (average of 13 per day) hours in any 7 day period.

On the Jade recently, one of the entertainment guys told us he had done several 16 hour days that week, obviously I only have his word on that but he was exhausted and told us he would not let them take advantage again.

I could say more about what was said but other things might identify him

Edited April 1, 2019 by ziggyuk

[chengkp75]

14 minutes ago, ziggyuk said:

On the Jade recently, one of the entertainment guys told us he had done several 16 hour days that week, obviously I only have his word on that but he was exhausted and told us he would not let them take advantage again.

I could say more about what was said but other things might identify him

A lot of crew figure that their "day" starts when they start work, and ends when they finish work.  Breaks during the day count as rest hours.  Also, it is the crew member's responsibility to ensure that they follow the work/rest hours, and if they feel they are being required to exceed the maximum hours, they can report this either to the DPA (designated person ashore) whose job it is to investigate when company policies are being violated and not dealt with properly onboard, and who reports directly to the CEO, or a national agency like the USCG.  By law, there can be no recriminations against anyone reporting complaints.

 

There are what are called "Manila exceptions" to the work/rest hours, but you are still limited to a minimum of 70 hours of rest in any 7 days, and these exceptions are limited to a given number in any two week period, and over no more than a 3 day period.

[1stTIMECRUZER]

2 hours ago, Von & John said:

 

So were we...

Did the stewards name begin w/ an "M"?

I can't recall here name but I'm guessing we had the same steward.

[fshagan]

8 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

There is also this claim that all cash tips have to be handed in, who knows if that is true.

 

I don't think it is. NCL, in their tipping FAQ, says that you can recognize individuals with cash if you want:

While you should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile,” so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities for exceptional or outstanding service if you care to offer them.

 

It would be odd if they have to share them. NCL might require all tips to be reported, but then returned to the employee in their paycheck rather than in cash. Servers in restaurants in the US have to report all tips and have them added to their salary for the calculation of taxes, so I could see NCL requiring something like that (perhaps to meet the minimum salary). But all the money goes to the server when payroll is done. Well, kind of, as taxes are applied to tips in the US.

[Love my butler]

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I spent 4 years on cruise ships, and I know that the crew averages 12-14 hours per day.  Do you think this is high or low?  They cannot, by law, work more than 14 hours in any 24, and no more than 91 (average of 13 per day) hours in any 7 day period.

 

I have spent 25 years on cruise ships and most of the crew does not work 14 hour days.

[newmexicoNita]

14 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

This is what really annoys me, the first wedge of the DSC simply makes up the salary to the guaranteed legal minimum, an amount NCL would have to pay even if every guest removed the DSC, all we really do is pay wages on NCLs behalf.

 

This is perfectly demonstrated on the UK's undercover dispatches documentary on Celebrity, the undercover journalists salary and DSC did not make the legal minimum and Celebrity had to make up the shortfall, because the DSC did not exceed the legal minimum wage, he actually gained nothing extra from the generous passengers DSC and took home the same money if nobody had paid the DSC.

 

In a restaurant I now ask if the servers if they get all of the automatic service charge (when one is included) and if they say no I ask for it to be removed and pay the same figure or more as a cash tip.

 

So... the people who remove the DSC (which I will add we don't and can't with NCL in the UK) and pay cash really do have an argument, the cruise line still pay the legal minimum wage to everyone (even behind the scenes) and anything handed in cash goes in the staffs pockets. I accept this meant the behind the scenes people don't have to opportunity to earn above the legal minimum.

 

There is also this claim that all cash tips have to be handed in, who knows if that is true.

I am relatively sure it is true but I can also add, most crew members would not turn them in as who would really know they got a tip in cash 

[havenfan]

4 hours ago, Love my butler said:

I have spent 25 years on cruise ships and most of the crew does not work 14 hour days.

 

So how many hours a day did you work on those cruise ships over those 25 years?

Edited April 2, 2019 by havenfan

[havenfan]

16 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

if the combination of salary and DSC falls below this minimum, the company must make up the balance.

...

if the crew is working a 14 hour day, they make about $1600/month.  Now, only the $618 is guaranteed, so their salary can vary from $1600 to $618 depending on the DSC.

 

@chengkp75

 

Did you have a sense, when you were working on NCL, of how frequently the DSC failed to make up to the minimum $618? And how frequently the DSC failed to make up to the $1600, or equivalent in those days?