Environmental impact of cruising and tourism

[SetAnOpenCourse]

I have to agree that there IS virtue signaling - not necessarily on this thread - still I wonder, WHY NOT make choices with your personal consumption that “play it safe” as regards the environment.  Choose fuel efficient vehicles and for you routine activities find things to do in your neighborhood!

 

Ships seems a dubious target for environmentalists, setting aside the disasters (avoidable) and the sad misdeeds by responsible individuals reported of late.  Floating seems economical by its nature.

[slidergirl]

On 6/15/2019 at 9:15 AM, fyree39 said:

Vote for Pedro!

Only if bribed with tots...;-)

We had a conversation at work about Pedro Saturday night!!!  We all would vote for him...

 

[Wehwalt]

On 6/14/2019 at 8:03 AM, IslandThyme said:

Not only a compensation issue, but in this case a "lack of understanding science" issue. Not to mention that calling others' efforts, in any domain, "virtue signalling" is a way to say "I'm not willing to do anything myself, so I'll jut demean those who are."

 

No ... I don't demean for that. Only for doing it publicly under a spotlight and telling everyone about it incessantly.

 

Other forms of virtue signaling include telling everyone on one thread how backward the people are on another thread, signaling you are fully woke.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Wehwalt

[*Miss G*]

14 minutes ago, Wehwalt said:

Other forms of virtue signaling include telling everyone on one thread how backward the people are on another thread, signaling you are fully woke.

 

Have you had your feelings hurt?

[IslandThyme]

Climate change is an existential issue and needs to be under a spotlight,. I, for one, am glad that kangforpres chose to shine a light on it here.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, IslandThyme said:

Climate change is an existential issue and needs to be under a spotlight,. I, for one, am glad that kangforpres chose to shine a light on it here.

Define climate change.

[IslandThyme]

This is the definition used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is the United Nations body for assessing the science related to climate change. The working definition it employs is:

 

"Climate change in IPCC usage refers to a change in the state of the climate that can be identified (e.g. using statistical tests) by changes in the mean and/or the variability of its properties, and that persists for an extended period, typically decades or longer."

 

For the 2018 IPCC report ninety-one authors and review editors from 40 countries  assessed more than 6000 scientific references. “One of the key messages that comes out very strongly from this report is that we are already seeing the consequences of 1°C of global warming through more extreme weather, rising sea levels and diminishing Arctic sea ice, among other changes,” said Panmao Zhai, Co-Chair of IPCC Working Group I.

 

And to anticipate your next comment, from the fifth IPCC report way back in 2013:

 

"It is extremely likely [95 percent confidence] more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature from 1951 to 2010 was caused by the anthropogenic increase in greenhouse gas concentrations and other anthropogenic forcings together." The obscure term "other anthropogenic forcings together This "includes the cooling effect from human aerosol emissions (pollutants that scatter sunlight)."

 

And from climate.nasa.gov "Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities. In addition, most of the leading scientific organizations worldwide have issued public statements endorsing this position." 

 

 

[RocketMan275]

29 minutes ago, IslandThyme said:

This is the definition used by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which is the United Nations body for assessing the science related to climate change. The working definition it employs is:

 

The IPCC?  Isn't that the group caught fudging numbers and research?

Edited June 17, 2019 by RocketMan275

[IslandThyme]

Not to my knowledge. The IPCC doesn't do research, it only reviews research done worldwide. Do you have a reference for your comment?

[RocketMan275]

39 minutes ago, IslandThyme said:

Not to my knowledge. The IPCC doesn't do research, it only reviews research done worldwide. Do you have a reference for your comment?

I was thinking about the Climate Gate emails.

Still, I'm all too skeptical of the IPCC.

Here's a nice article:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/31/the-ipccs-latest-report-deliberately-excludes-and-misrepresents-important-climate-science/#4fc9111b428e

 

[slidergirl]

Regardless of pro/con/it's a lie/whatever stand on climate change...  Why not change our conspicuous consumption habits?  Just because we can cruise, fly, drive, use single-use plastics, drink bottled water, etc., doesn't mean we should.   Choose wisely. What is the saying - "Every Little Bit Helps."  

 

Oh, if any of you shop at a Kroger supermarket - Kroger, Smith's, QFC, Fred Meyer, etc., they are phasing out single-use plastic bags.  My local independent supermarket has already done that.  

[Hawaiidan]

On 6/12/2019 at 5:34 PM, GUT2407 said:

 Maybe just buy a horse, or better yet walk.

 

if you want to go by sea, sail.

Wait  a  second   Horses and cows emit methane  and California I making laws that require that they emit 20% less in  several years...They are even proposing "fitting" the devices on the animal......  It it that crazy here

. Rest assured  nothing you can do will ever satisfy  the radicals...who would like to see people eliminated as they cause so much damage by their existence.

Knowing this, It would be fair to conclude that a staunch environmentalist, knowing he is a human  and knowing humans are so destructive, would choose to kill himself for the sake of the environment.     Sounds good to me.

[LP Dad]

Whenever I'm talking to a politician or an activist about the "climate crisis", I always ask which tax cuts they support to combat climate change. Their stunned and shaken reactions --- which never vary --- assure me of their true motivations.

 

LPD

[slidergirl]

1 minute ago, Hawaiidan said:

Wait  a  second   Horses and cows emit methane  and California I making laws that require that they emit 20% less in  several years...They are even proposing "fitting" the devices on the animal......  It it that crazy here

. Rest assured  nothing you can do will ever satisfy  the radicals...who would like to see people eliminated as they cause so much damage by their existence.

Knowing this, It would be fair to conclude that a staunch environmentalist, knowing he is a human  and knowing humans are so destructive, would choose to kill himself for the sake of the environment.     Sounds good to me.

 

Thank you soooo much for telling me to go kill myself...  But, then, some people are such blowhards against anything to help the environment, that we could harness their mouths for wind power and probably power the world...

[RocketMan275]

10 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Regardless of pro/con/it's a lie/whatever stand on climate change...  Why not change our conspicuous consumption habits?  Just because we can cruise, fly, drive, use single-use plastics, drink bottled water, etc., doesn't mean we should.   Choose wisely. What is the saying - "Every Little Bit Helps."  

 

Oh, if any of you shop at a Kroger supermarket - Kroger, Smith's, QFC, Fred Meyer, etc., they are phasing out single-use plastic bags.  My local independent supermarket has already done that.  

Are we going back to paper bags?

[slidergirl]

2 minutes ago, LP Dad said:

Whenever I'm talking to a politician or an activist about the "climate crisis", I always ask which tax cuts they support to combat climate change. Their stunned and shaken reactions --- which never vary --- assure me of their true motivations.

 

LPD

Not being Canadian and not overly familiar with Canadian politics:  what potential tax cuts could be theoretically done to combat climate change?   I know that there is a big battle right now about building the Energy East Pipeline.  Plusses and minuses abound.  It could stop some of that pollution caused by the need to have the oil shipped via ships from the Western Provinces and also cut down on the need to buy oil from foreign countries and have it shipped.  But, as we have seen with other oil pipelines here in the US, when they fail and rupture, land, flora and fauna are destroyed.   I've got some very pro-pipeline friends in Alberta and I do respect their opinions.  

[Hawaiidan]

4 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

Thank you soooo much for telling me to go kill myself...  But, then, some people are such blowhards against anything to help the environment, that we could harness their mouths for wind power and probably power the world...

If you believe that you are a source and  that that source needs to be eliminated... 

  There is a old story that asks what is the difference between a hard working man and an environmentalist.       The hard working man one day wants to one day afford to have a house by the beach.    ...................

The environmentalist already has one

[slidergirl]

Just now, RocketMan275 said:

Are we going back to paper bags?

Yep.  Or, bring your own...  Sometimes, what we thought was a good idea ends up biting us.

 

When I cruise or travel, I bring my own cloth bags or those really cool fold-up nylon bags to put souvenirs or other things I buy along the way.  I have my own water bottle that I bring and fill.  I don't do excursions, so I don't use that gas/diesel fuel.  You can usually find me wandering around on foot or using public transportation in a port (I haven't had a problem yet with that).  

[RocketMan275]

9 minutes ago, LP Dad said:

Whenever I'm talking to a politician or an activist about the "climate crisis", I always ask which tax cuts they support to combat climate change. Their stunned and shaken reactions --- which never vary --- assure me of their true motivations.

 

LPD

From the article I linked too:  "This week, the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is releasing its latest report, the “Working Group II Contribution to the Fifth Assessment Report.” Like its past reports, this one predicts apocalyptic consequences if mankind fails to give the UN the power to tax and regulate fossil fuels and subsidize and mandate the use of alternative fuels. "

 

[RocketMan275]

11 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

 

Thank you soooo much for telling me to go kill myself...  But, then, some people are such blowhards against anything to help the environment, that we could harness their mouths for wind power and probably power the world...

Of course, that would work much better if applied to the environmental blowhards.  

[slidergirl]

3 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

If you believe that you are a source and  that that source needs to be eliminated... 

  There is a old story that asks what is the difference between a hard working man and an environmentalist.       The hard working man one day wants to one day afford to have a house by the beach.    ...................

The environmentalist already has one

Trust me - I don't have a beach house, could NEVER afford one.  I work hard for my money and still live hand-to-mouth.  And, I am still environmentally conscious.  Not every environmentalist is an elitist.  

 

Going to my medicine cabinet to empty the rest of my anti-depressant meds into my mouth...

[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Yep.  Or, bring your own...  Sometimes, what we thought was a good idea ends up biting us.

 

When I cruise or travel, I bring my own cloth bags or those really cool fold-up nylon bags to put souvenirs or other things I buy along the way.  I have my own water bottle that I bring and fill.  I don't do excursions, so I don't use that gas/diesel fuel.  You can usually find me wandering around on foot or using public transportation in a port (I haven't had a problem yet with that).  

You are to be commended.  I choose to make other choices.

 

time to leave this thread as I sense it's going to go the way of the formal night threads.

[Hawaiidan]

13 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

From the article I linked too:  "This week, the United Nations’ Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is releasing its latest report, the “Working Group II Contribution to the Fifth Assessment Report.” Like its past reports, this one predicts apocalyptic consequences if mankind fails to give the UN the power to tax and regulate fossil fuels and subsidize and mandate the use of alternative fuels. "

 

Therein lies the true heart of the climate change agenda and carbon footprint...... What an outstanding way to generate untold trillions in new taxes

Edited June 17, 2019 by Hawaiidan

[IslandThyme]

For those who are still with us, RocketMan's reference, Fred Singer, does indeed agree with the 3% of climate scientists who deny anthropogenic climate change. It's his business to defend petroleum producers, just as it was his business to defend tobacco producers by stating that second-hand smoke isn't harmful. Look it up.

 

I'm not saying that you have to agree with 97% of climate scientists, I just wonder why anyone chooses to believe the other 3%. And even supposing you're on the side of science, what you choose to do about it is an individual decision.

 

When I want to travel, I choose to buy carbon offsets whenever possible. And since I enjoy travelling by cruise ship, I wish the cruise industry would set up an offset program for those of us who feel similarly.

[Hawaiidan]

2 minutes ago, IslandThyme said:

For those who are still with us, RocketMan's reference, Fred Singer, does indeed agree with the 3% of climate scientists who deny anthropogenic climate change. It's his business to defend petroleum producers, just as it was his business to defend tobacco producers by stating that second-hand smoke isn't harmful. Look it up.

 

I'm not saying that you have to agree with 97% of climate scientists, I just wonder why anyone chooses to believe the other 3%. And even supposing you're on the side of science, what you choose to do about it is an individual decision.

 

When I want to travel, I choose to buy carbon offsets whenever possible. And since I enjoy travelling by cruise ship, I wish the cruise industry would set up an offset program for those of us who feel similarly.

 

You might consider  this ....  a y carbon free way to travel the oceans....