Class cruising has returned

[RickinNYC]

Just now, thistimeplease said:

 

This post illustrates exactly what annoys me, the "we work hard all year" comment stated by most of those who stay in the Haven.  My dh and I also "work hard all year" we just choose to spend our money differently but this comment implies that those who don't stay in the Haven are not hardworking people.  We enjoy our balcony and have a great time in H20, not the Vibe. I honestly believe that most people who cruise "work hard all year".  RichinNYC I didn't mean to single you out but this comment has been made many times in the last few weeks in threads regarding the Haven and I agree you should spend your money the way you want just like the rest of us.

 

So it's ok for you to attempt to diminish my own opinion, yet the OP is in the right.  Got it.  (insert huge eyeroll emoji here).  Continue to be annoyed if you like.  

[buckirj1]

Nothing new here. NCL is simply continuing its tradition of ala carte cruising. Some call it nickel and diming, though that's wrong. I'm definitely okay with paying most things ala carte, and definitely okay with an inside cabin, so long as I have a human-sized bathroom. I don't like being shut out of some things (like the gym on certain ships), but accept it as part of cruising in today's world.

[LoraJ]

1 hour ago, thistimeplease said:

 

This post illustrates exactly what annoys me, the "we work hard all year" comment stated by most of those who stay in the Haven.  My dh and I also "work hard all year" we just choose to spend our money differently but this comment implies that those who don't stay in the Haven are not hardworking people.  We enjoy our balcony and have a great time in H20, not the Vibe. I honestly believe that most people who cruise "work hard all year".  RichinNYC I didn't mean to single you out but this comment has been made many times in the last few weeks in threads regarding the Haven and I agree you should spend your money the way you want just like the rest of us.

 

I have seen Rick around these boards (and maybe disboards? if I remember correctly) forever and that is not what he meant. He's not saying you don't work hard, just that he does too and he will budget and spend his money in the way it suits him.  I have been the same way going from Inside to mini-suite and Haven if I save longer for it. Good for anyone who can do it more often than I can. I don't think I have had any less fun on a cruise based on the cabins I booked, just a different type. When I had inside cabins, I was doing more activities vs. balcony sitting on it being lazy. This whole class argument is silly. I remember when I sailed the Destiny, it was when balcony cabins were first becoming a thing. My tablemates talked about their balcony and how they would leave the door open to listen to the ocean. I didn't want to spend the extra money for one at that time, but I didn't feel like less of a person because I didn't have one. Many people can't afford to cruise at all, I feel lucky just being able to travel and see different places. When I walk around the ship, I don't know what type of cabin people are booked in. Who cares?

 

I do have to say though, those Vibe photos look tempting and if/when I do a Caribbean cruise again, I may just have to budget more money to get some passes. 🙂

 

[NLH Arizona]

I guess I'm confused why this is an issue.  When you stay at a good hotel, there are suites and concierge levels and those guests get things that those not in those rooms or floors get.  When you fly, there is first class, business class and those in economy don't get anything extra, unless they pay for a few inches of extra leg room or drinks.  When you go to a sporting event, there are suites who get things that those in regular seats don't get.  And at some sporting events, some seats get beverage and meal service, while others have to walk up and get their own.  I've never heard anyone say that sporting events have a class system or hotels or airlines, so why is it that if cruise lines do the same thing, it is a class system.  I wouldn't never think of any of this, including cruise lines as a class system, I would say it is "you pay for what you get".  I've cruised in suites, balcony cabins an ocean view cabins, in my over sixty cruises and I've never felt that I didn't get what I paid for and never considered myself traveling in a class above anyone or a class below anyone else on the ship. 

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, thistimeplease said:

This post illustrates exactly what annoys me, the "we work hard all year" comment stated by most of those who stay in the Haven.  My dh and I also "work hard all year" we just choose to spend our money differently but this comment implies that those who don't stay in the Haven are not hardworking people. 

 

When someone posts "we work hard all year", it is a comment about THEM. It has nothing to do with what others do or don't do.

 

If someone posts "I enjoy riding a motorcycle", it doesn't mean that they feel that those who drive a car don't enjoy riding a motorcycle.

[tjt87]

2 hours ago, RickinNYC said:

When we were younger and not making much money, we sailed in inside cabins.  When our income and priorities changed, we started booking ocean view, then followed by balconies.  Now that we're in our 50's and have a much higher income, we now sail in Haven class.  Are we now wealthy?  Not by any stretch.  But my husband and I work damn hard throughout the year, so we intend to spend our time and money in a manner that suits us. We certainly won't apologize, and if the OP wants to view the various cabin levels as class levels, that's on him.

 

If you cruise Haven you are wealthy

[Two Wheels Only]

1 minute ago, tjt87 said:

 

If you cruise Haven you are wealthy

 

1. Different people define "wealthy" differently.

2. There are people who save $50 per week pp for a year in order to pay for the Haven.

3. There are people who book a balcony then win a bid to the Haven.

4. A person making $11 per hour could win $5k on a scratch-off and decide to take a "once in a lifetime" cruise in the Haven.

 

It is impossible to determine what a person is like and the lifestyle that they have for 51 weeks per year based on them spending 1 week in the Haven.

[tjt87]

10 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I guess I'm confused why this is an issue.  When you stay at a good hotel, there are suites and concierge levels and those guests get things that those not in those rooms or floors get.  When you fly, there is first class, business class and those in economy don't get anything extra, unless they pay for a few inches of extra leg room or drinks.  When you go to a sporting event, there are suites who get things that those in regular seats don't get.  And at some sporting events, some seats get beverage and meal service, while others have to walk up and get their own.  I've never heard anyone say that sporting events have a class system or hotels or airlines, so why is it that if cruise lines do the same thing, it is a class system.  I wouldn't never think of any of this, including cruise lines as a class system, I would say it is "you pay for what you get".  I've cruised in suites, balcony cabins an ocean view cabins, in my over sixty cruises and I've never felt that I didn't get what I paid for and never considered myself traveling in a class above anyone or a class below anyone else on the ship. 

Sporting events, hotels and airlines have a class system. There you go now you have 😗

[tjt87]

22 hours ago, Kingkonig said:

I don’t think NCL (or really any of the other big lines) are returning to “class” cruising.  Sure you get more perks when you spend more money, but that’s how things work everywhere else in life too.

The definition of class cruising here

[tjt87]

8 hours ago, david_sobe said:

All of this because of an expanded Vibe?  There is no class system but there is a giant fee system.  People all over the ship including inside cabins routinely shell out money for eating, some entertainment, spa, and other excursions.  The irony is even if you book a Deluxe Owners Suite (notice wheels I used the word deluxe) at $20,000 you still must pay for the same upcharges including the spa.  For $20,000 you should be able to dine and shower with the captain IMHO.  All cruise lines are doing this but NCL really has taken it to a new level.  Many things are not even worth the upcharge.  Last time on Getaway the magic show was basic and would be included in the cheapest cruise line entertainment.  The mind readers are cool but have existed on cheap cruise lines since the 1970s.  NCL charged for admission to the show and gave a very MDR meal that actually made MDR meals look and taste like specialty dining.  10 years ago if you booked a specialty dining restaurant on NCL the cost was low because you got credit for your daily meals.  Yes now they have go carts, galaxy pavilion, and an adults only sundeck which all require fees.

No class system since people from all category of cabins book these things.  I hate it too but its not a class system.  When FDR took over he stated he wanted to get another $50 from each passenger but it appears he has set his eyes on $500.

 

I agree with much of what you say but isn't a class system and giant fee system the same thing?

[tjt87]

8 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

1. Different people define "wealthy" differently.

2. There are people who save $50 per week pp for a year in order to pay for the Haven.

3. There are people who book a balcony then win a bid to the Haven.

4. A person making $11 per hour could win $5k on a scratch-off and decide to take a "once in a lifetime" cruise in the Haven.

 

It is impossible to determine what a person is like and the lifestyle that they have for 51 weeks per year based on them spending 1 week in the Haven.

 

Still wealthy 1st world problem

[NLH Arizona]

Thank goodness for the ignore feature.

[thistimeplease]

21 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

When someone posts "we work hard all year", it is a comment about THEM. It has nothing to do with what others do or don't do.

 

If someone posts "I enjoy riding a motorcycle", it doesn't mean that they feel that those who drive a car don't enjoy riding a motorcycle.

In the context that it has been used on these boards it most definitely has to do with what others do or don't do.  Almost everytime a thread has been made regarding the Haven the statement "we work hard all year" is brought up.  I don't care what room someone chooses for their cruise but I do believe that most cruisers "work hard all year" and choose their rooms based on what they desire not because they didn't work as hard as others. 

[tjt87]

7 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

Hi

 

If someone wants to call it class cruising, they can, who cares. It just doesn't matter.

 

If I am satisfied with basic accommodations and don't want to pay for any extras, I can go on a very inexpensive trip. If someone wants more, they will have to pay more. Why should it bother me. People are willing to pay extra for anything and everything. Whether it is for an upgrade cabin, as well as  alcohol, gambling, photos, premium dining, whatever else any cruise line charges for. The reality is that they are subsidizing those that aren't willing/don't need to spend anything extra.

 

The cruise line wouldn't be making a profit if everyone on the ship were paying less than $500 for a week of cruising and wasn't spending extra. We all spend what we choose every day of our lives. If you want to spend $10000 for a car while someone else wants to spend $100000 for a different car, who cares. It's still going to get you to the same place. Just like the ship.

 

If someone wants to spend $5000 for their cruise and I choose to spend $500, again who cares. I can go on ten cruises for the same amount. Almost one a month... sounds pretty good to me. That's one of the great thing about having choices, and about the cruising industry. There is something for every budget. 

 

This would be true if they weren't taking something away from you that you had in the past

[elwood_98034]

2 minutes ago, tjt87 said:

This would be true if they weren't taking something away from you that you had in the past

Mars bars have shrunk too, but I don't go mental about it.

[tjt87]

11 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

Thank goodness for the ignore feature.

Not for you because I guess you are ignoring me, but that is the point only your opinion matters

Edited June 25, 2019 by tjt87
typo

[tjt87]

2 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Mars bars have shrunk too, but I don't go mental about it.

 

I'mnot going mental about it, go poke another bear 😴

[elwood_98034]

1 minute ago, tjt87 said:

Not for you because I guess you are ignoring me, but that ids the point only your opinion matters

We can do Alaska on the Haven for just over $12k. We went to London last year, and it cost us $20k. 

You are so lucky, to be able to just get on a train and be there in a couple of hours. Or Paris, of Scotland, or Ireland. I haven't been to any of those places, and probably never will. Plus, you have Mars bars, and fish and chips. Meat pies, sausage rolls, Greggs...

I envy you.

[Two Wheels Only]

9 minutes ago, thistimeplease said:

In the context that it has been used on these boards it most definitely has to do with what others do or don't do.  Almost everytime a thread has been made regarding the Haven the statement "we work hard all year" is brought up.

 

IMO, when the "...work hard..." comment comes up, it is usually to refute the idea that Haven guests are nothing but rich snobs who have been given everything in life. 

 

If the comment was "we work hard and if you did too, you could sail in the Haven...", I'd agree with you. I just haven't seen the comments from Haven guests that imply that non-Haven guests don't work hard. The comments may be there but I haven't seen them. 

[tjt87]

1 minute ago, elwood_98034 said:

We can do Alaska on the Haven for just over $12k. We went to London last year, and it cost us $20k. 

You are so lucky, to be able to just get on a train and be there in a couple of hours. Or Paris, of Scotland, or Ireland. I haven't been to any of those places, and probably never will. Plus, you have Mars bars, and fish and chips. Meat pies, sausage rolls, Greggs...

I envy you.

That is true 😂 and we have a Gregg's factory in Leeds, you need to try the vegan sausage roll.

[tjt87]

10 minutes ago, elwood_98034 said:

Mars bars have shrunk too, but I don't go mental about it.

And they're not Mars bars in the US 😀

[MrMike45]

49 minutes ago, NLH Arizona said:

I guess I'm confused why this is an issue.  When you stay at a good hotel, there are suites and concierge levels and those guests get things that those not in those rooms or floors get.  When you fly, there is first class, business class and those in economy don't get anything extra, unless they pay for a few inches of extra leg room or drinks.  When you go to a sporting event, there are suites who get things that those in regular seats don't get.  And at some sporting events, some seats get beverage and meal service, while others have to walk up and get their own.  I've never heard anyone say that sporting events have a class system or hotels or airlines, so why is it that if cruise lines do the same thing, it is a class system.  I wouldn't never think of any of this, including cruise lines as a class system, I would say it is "you pay for what you get".  I've cruised in suites, balcony cabins an ocean view cabins, in my over sixty cruises and I've never felt that I didn't get what I paid for and never considered myself traveling in a class above anyone or a class below anyone else on the ship. 

 

The issues (at least my issues) isn't that Haven gets more...they pay more, they should get more...done in my opinion.  

 

The dividing of the top/pool deck into 3 segments is the problem.  Haven (which as per above, I am fine with getting more because they paid more).  Vibe & Regular.  

 

Vibe is NOT something anyone and everyone has access to.  Haven, yes, anyone who is willing to can spend more money when booking and be Haven guests, with all the added perks and in this case, space on the top outside deck.  Vibe however is a crap shoot.  There are not 1500 (1/3 the pax count on Escape) passes.  Only the first 100 (maybe they up that to 200?) passengers who board the ship, and race to headliners, will have access to this 1/3 of area on the pool deck.  

 

So using reverse logic here.  Haven you spend more, you get more.  Think most people would agree to that right?  Fine.

 

I book in an Aft balcony room for $1499pp = $3000 total

You book in an Inside guarantee for $499pp=$1000 total

 

I spent $2000 more than you.  But I hit traffic on the way to the terminal and get there 2 hours after you.  I have no shot at Vibe, while you get Vibe passes at $200 pp, or $400 total.

 

So the new score card is $3000 for me, $1400 for you.  I still spent significantly more than you.  But you now have access to AN EXTRA 3RD OF OUTSIDE POOL SPACE than I do.  That isn't the old Vibe with a small little area.  That is a significant amount of real estate, outside, with hot tubs.  But per the Haven analogy, I still spent more than you, yet I am punished.

 

So first, they take away previously allotted space for all passengers, and divide it into 3 segments.  One for the people who spend the most on the cruise.  One for the regular folks.  And One for those who are lucky enough, and have the ability to, get to the terminal super early and secure Vibe passes.  Even if other still spent more on the cruise, they are punished...because they didn't spend Haven money more, only a few hundred/thousand more.  

 

For this to be fair, NCL should sell Vibe passes online, and should up the number of passes to like 1000.  If the entire top deck used to be for all 4500 passengers, 1/3 of that area should be for significantly more people than the 100 they currently allow.  This way, access to this area won't be as scarce and cause segregation (and a class system) 

Edited June 25, 2019 by MrMike45

[NLH Arizona]

1 minute ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

IMO, when the "...work hard..." comment comes up, it is usually to refute the idea that Haven guests are nothing but rich snobs who have been given everything in life. 

 

If the comment was "we work hard and if you did too, you could sail in the Haven...", I'd agree with you. I just haven't seen the comments from Haven guests that imply that non-Haven guests don't work hard. The comments may be there but I haven't seen them. 

I don't think staying in the Haven has anything to do with someone working hard, because everyone works hard.  I think it has to do with how one wants to spends their money.  I've travelled the world and would rather spend my money on travelling, while I have a friend who spends her money on designer clothes, new furniture every years, etc.  We have different priorities and what works for me, doesn't work for her.  Some on here would rather spend their money going on ten or fifteen cruises a year in an inside cabin, even though for that money they could cruise in The Haven, while others would rather cruise once a year and stay in The Haven.  Do what makes you happy and don't let anyone tell you that your priorities are wrong.

[elwood_98034]

2 minutes ago, tjt87 said:

That is true 😂 and we have a Gregg's factory in Leeds, you need to try the vegan sausage roll.

We only cruise to Alaska because we don't like the heat and the sun. That is why we liked London. The 16yo Haven sundeck rule is a bit of a drag, but we wouldn't have been up there sitting around much anyway. I doesn't really have much value to me. I am just so grateful to be able to have a week off work and have someone else do the cooking.

 

Now, what is the chance you could organise Greggs to do a deal with NCL and install a kiosk on all the ships?  Just no Pieminster. They were horrible.

[elwood_98034]

10 minutes ago, tjt87 said:

And they're not Mars bars in the US 😀

Believe it or not, we sometimes see UK ones in different places. I always grab a few and stick them in the freezer.