The 3 big cruise lines are burning thru a billion a month

[PhillyFan33579]

31 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

If a potential merger were to evolve, personally I would want "Carnivals" name as the lead name since they are the larger entity of the two. So "Carnival Caribbean" would be my choice!!!

If a merger were to happen, and I hope things don’t get to that point, I doubt Carnival’s name would be on a newly formed/merged entity. While Carnival obviously has a lot of supporters, there are also a lot of detractors out there.
 

I have lost count how many times people have said they would never cruise on Carnival again. I have also heard people say they would never cruise on Carnival based on things they have heard. While I don’t give too much credence to people who have an opinion on something they have never tried, these people still likely wouldn’t support a business with the name Carnival. 
 

Over the years numerous friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. have asked my wife and I why are we going on a cruise on Carnival. On the other hand, no one has said anything like that when we have cruised on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity. 
 

Personally I like Carnival and can prove that with the number of times we have cruised on Carnival ships. However, I also know there is a lot of negativity associated with Carnival, which is why I think there name wouldn’t be on a new company. 
 

Hopefully this is all just conjecture and cruising will resume sooner than later.  One of the many things I like about cruising is the number of different cruise lines we can sail on from Florida, where we currently live. 

[jimbo5544]

21 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

If a merger were to happen, and I hope things don’t get to that point, I doubt Carnival’s name would be on a newly formed/merged entity. While Carnival obviously has a lot of supporters, there are also a lot of detractors out there.
 

I have lost count how many times people have said they would never cruise on Carnival again. I have also heard people say they would never cruise on Carnival based on things they have heard. While I don’t give too much credence to people who have an opinion on something they have never tried, these people still likely wouldn’t support a business with the name Carnival. 
 

Over the years numerous friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. have asked my wife and I why are we going on a cruise on Carnival. On the other hand, no one has said anything like that when we have cruised on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity. 
 

Personally I like Carnival and can prove that with the number of times we have cruised on Carnival ships. However, I also know there is a lot of negativity associated with Carnival, which is why I think there name wouldn’t be on a new company. 
 

Hopefully this is all just conjecture and cruising will resume sooner than later.  One of the many things I like about cruising is the number of different cruise lines we can sail on from Florida, where we currently live. 

I do not believe this could or will happen, but in MHO if something like this were to occur it would be by acquisition and brand names would stay the same. 

[jetsfan58]

33 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

If a merger were to happen, and I hope things don’t get to that point, I doubt Carnival’s name would be on a newly formed/merged entity. While Carnival obviously has a lot of supporters, there are also a lot of detractors out there.
 

I have lost count how many times people have said they would never cruise on Carnival again. I have also heard people say they would never cruise on Carnival based on things they have heard. While I don’t give too much credence to people who have an opinion on something they have never tried, these people still likely wouldn’t support a business with the name Carnival. 
 

Over the years numerous friends, co-workers, neighbors, etc. have asked my wife and I why are we going on a cruise on Carnival. On the other hand, no one has said anything like that when we have cruised on Royal Caribbean or Celebrity. 
 

Personally I like Carnival and can prove that with the number of times we have cruised on Carnival ships. However, I also know there is a lot of negativity associated with Carnival, which is why I think there name wouldn’t be on a new company. 
 

Hopefully this is all just conjecture and cruising will resume sooner than later.  One of the many things I like about cruising is the number of different cruise lines we can sail on from Florida, where we currently live. 

My loyalty has been with Carnival for years. My family and I first cruised on the Pride many years ago. Since then we have never taken another land based vacation. Florida residents are very fortunate to have the Cruise Industry availability readily at their travel disposal.      

[jetsfan58]

23 minutes ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 
   Yes, several of those posting as stunned by the scrapyards, the long-term cancelations, the layoffs, the financial freefall .... are exactly the people who were dismissing every warning and forecast since the late winter. 
 Arrogance is like that.
 

  Sort of a parallel to all the Alabama, Florida, Arizona etc "gimme muh rights" crew that demanded no-rules immediate reopenings .... and were shocked when that whole thing went south. Who coulda seen it coming?

 
    Yes, the cruise lines are burning cash like firewood right now. And anyone who continues viewing that as sustainable is simply being delusional ... there is no cosmic energy field that protects RCI, NCL or CCL from bankruptcy or even outright liquidation. The fact that cruising was a thriving, growing industry at this time last year means absolutely nothing now.

    Those who want to preserve the cruise industry now should be banging the drum for a deep housecleaning in the corporate offices.
 

    A "miracle" cure changes everything. But "wait for a miracle" is no business strategy - it's a failure formula. Right now all three lines should be jointly working with universities, engineering consultants and health experts on precisely what they CAN do to survive. The answers won't be easy or popular, but this nonsense of living off deposits for fictitious cruises simply isn't sustainable - it's time for the executives to WORK.

 

   But at each line, the current C-suite appears very content to ride the business down as it slowly circles the drain ... they keep siphoning off their bloated compensation, while letting the business itself just bleed out. Time for change.

  

 

I totally get your point. Most Business executives do earn their loyal pay. There are always those that will not play by the written rules no matter the outcome or potential circumstances. I don't believe that Carnival's Executive Leadership Team is to blame. They can only operate within their acquired means. Unless they have qualified and retained Medical experts on staff they are probably awaiting the "cure" like the majority of the World. Blame is not what is needed right now; hope and prayer are essential.    

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

 

  All of the travel industry is crippled. But other than convention centers, the cruise lines may be the worst of the walking wounded.
 

  Interesting that Delta (and Southwest) are looking at longer-term customer satisfaction rather than just maximizing ticket sales for the short term. It's not easy for businesses to stand up to the phony "Americans" who refuse simple measures like masks and distancing ... but those two carriers are doing it, and leaving the middle seats open as well.  Long term, the maskless "patriots" are a customer base that no company will really want.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/08/06/delta-air-lines-sees/

    Here's a safe bet: If cruising returns in 2021, Seabourn will absolutely follow the most serious safety protocols. Their customer base is too savvy to accept anything less.
     NCL? Look for plenty of cheap, easy "cleaning theater" and not much else.
    Carnival? I don't have much hope for Donald and Duffy to do the right thing, but we could always hope.      

[joeyancho]

 

On 8/12/2020 at 12:02 PM, naxer said:

 The bigger question for the cruise lines is whether cruising will still be as popular after the plague.  So far, their booking numbers are showing that doesn't seem to be a problem.

Until the first ships to sail come back with infected people,  as is happening in Europe.  

Edited August 14, 2020 by joeyancho

[xDisconnections]

13 hours ago, jetsfan58 said:

My loyalty has been with Carnival for years. My family and I first cruised on the Pride many years ago. Since then we have never taken another land based vacation. Florida residents are very fortunate to have the Cruise Industry availability readily at their travel disposal.      

Florida resident. I’m glad there are other options available besides cruising but it does make it easy for a quick getaway. I still prefer land vacations.

[xDisconnections]

On 8/12/2020 at 3:02 PM, naxer said:

The bigger question for the cruise lines is whether cruising will still be as popular after the plague.  So far, their booking numbers are showing that doesn't seem to be a problem.

The booking numbers we are told are somewhat skewed. How many of them are simply from passengers who had previous cruises canceled that are left with a credit set to expire if unused in the near future? Carnival, and other cruise lines, already captured that revenue. Those aren’t new dollars coming in.

[Honolulu Blue]

10 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

    Here's a safe bet: If cruising returns in 2021, Seabourn will absolutely follow the most serious safety protocols. Their customer base is too savvy to accept anything less.
     NCL? Look for plenty of cheap, easy "cleaning theater" and not much else.
    Carnival? I don't have much hope for Donald and Duffy to do the right thing, but we could always hope.      

 

Seabourn will follow the most serious safety protocols not only because the customers are savvy, but they need the protection.  I'm sure their median age is way up there, and if we've learned one thing about this disease is that older victims have taken much the worst of it.

 

Oh, and Seabourn is owned by Carnival Corporation.  Their CEO you know quite well.  I have more faith than you do that he'll do the right thing in regards to Seabourn (if nothing else), because Carnival Corp. has historically given a lot of latitude to its subsidiary lines.

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

44 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Seabourn will follow the most serious safety protocols not only because the customers are savvy, but they need the protection.  I'm sure their median age is way up there, and if we've learned one thing about this disease is that older victims have taken much the worst of it.

 

Oh, and Seabourn is owned by Carnival Corporation.  Their CEO you know quite well.  I have more faith than you do that he'll do the right thing in regards to Seabourn (if nothing else), because Carnival Corp. has historically given a lot of latitude to its subsidiary lines.

      Seabourn pax are a youth movement compared to HAL, which as you surely know is also a Carnival subsidiary. And which had a hideous performance (along with Princess) from late January through to the shutdown in March. Donald's wizardry was on full display for the world then.

       The key differences on Seabourn are the expectations & wealth of the passengers. One thing they will never be is the "guinea pig" cruisers for any badly thought-out return to sailing. Bank on that.

[jimbo5544]

20 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

 

  All of the travel industry is crippled. But other than convention centers, the cruise lines may be the worst of the walking wounded.
 

  Interesting that Delta (and Southwest) are looking at longer-term customer satisfaction rather than just maximizing ticket sales for the short term. It's not easy for businesses to stand up to the phony "Americans" who refuse simple measures like masks and distancing ... but those two carriers are doing it, and leaving the middle seats open as well.  Long term, the maskless "patriots" are a customer base that no company will really want.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2020/08/06/delta-air-lines-sees/

    Here's a safe bet: If cruising returns in 2021, Seabourn will absolutely follow the most serious safety protocols. Their customer base is too savvy to accept anything less.
     NCL? Look for plenty of cheap, easy "cleaning theater" and not much else.
    Carnival? I don't have much hope for Donald and Duffy to do the right thing, but we could always hope.      

Apples and oranges, when Delta and Southwest start sailing cruise ships, let us know.

 

[xDisconnections]

7 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Apples and oranges, when Delta and Southwest start sailing cruise ships, let us know.

 

What happened with Carnival Air Lines?

[jimbo5544]

7 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

What happened with Carnival Air Lines?

LOL, all 4 planes...flew them several times....showing my age.  That said my post stands

[xDisconnections]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

LOL, all 4 planes...flew them several times....showing my age.  That said my post stands

Lol.

 

Can’t say I have ever seen one in person.

[PhillyFan33579]

On 8/14/2020 at 12:54 AM, xDisconnections said:

The booking numbers we are told are somewhat skewed. How many of them are simply from passengers who had previous cruises canceled that are left with a credit set to expire if unused in the near future? Carnival, and other cruise lines, already captured that revenue. Those aren’t new dollars coming in.

I agree 100%. If/when cruise lines resume operations, cruises will likely sail at full occupancy (whatever is determined to be the new reduced occupancy) initially due to all the cancelled cruises and cruises being rebooked due to incentives like OBC. I think the true test will come once this initial surge passes, then the cruise lines should get a clearer picture of how many people are still booking cruises. I realize this isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but seeing what Disney has implemented at their parks with crowd control is something a cruise ship should be able to do if they sail at a significantly reduced capacity. 

[xDisconnections]

36 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I agree 100%. If/when cruise lines resume operations, cruises will likely sail at full occupancy (whatever is determined to be the new reduced occupancy) initially due to all the cancelled cruises and cruises being rebooked due to incentives like OBC. I think the true test will come once this initial surge passes, then the cruise lines should get a clearer picture of how many people are still booking cruises. I realize this isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but seeing what Disney has implemented at their parks with crowd control is something a cruise ship should be able to do if they sail at a significantly reduced capacity. 

Not being a fan of Disney’s reservation system and my hotel loyalty belonging to a competitor, I made the difficult decision for the first time to not renew my passes which expired during the closure. I just couldn’t see renewing our Platinum Passes and be limited to what reservations were available. As Passholders, it’s extremely limited compared to other segments and most of my trips are determined last minute... it just wasn’t beneficial to me. I’ll pick up new passes when I’m ready.

 

At least Universal isn’t requiring reservations but the main benefits I enjoyed with the Premier pass in the past had been chopped off and replaced with a one time bring a friend through December.

 

Oh well, we’re in a pandemic. I can wait until the parks accommodate my preferences. No rush.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Lol.

 

Can’t say I have ever seen one in person.

Was actually on one that got hit by lightning Fll to jfk

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

2 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

I agree 100%. If/when cruise lines resume operations, cruises will likely sail at full occupancy (whatever is determined to be the new reduced occupancy) initially due to all the cancelled cruises and cruises being rebooked due to incentives like OBC. I think the true test will come once this initial surge passes, then the cruise lines should get a clearer picture of how many people are still booking cruises. I realize this isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but seeing what Disney has implemented at their parks with crowd control is something a cruise ship should be able to do if they sail at a significantly reduced capacity. 

right. And Disney just reduced its hours because the much-awaited grand reopening has been a disappointment. (They can open the gates, but no legislation will ever force customers to actually go)

 

interesting that neither broadway nor mega-concerts was directly linked in any public way to outbreaks ... yet they're still closed down. Cruising, on the other hand, was second only to nursing homes as the "public face" of coronavirus risk.

    People who believe cruising can come back in the foreseeable future even a little bit like before ... just aren't coping with reality.
    Certainly there will be a mega-rush early on: there's pent-up demand from the most hard-core cruise fans, and an ever-increasing pool of FCC-holders looking to cash in their vouchers. But once that wave passes, the industry will have to own up to the loss of its glory "new cruisers sailing all the time" mass appeal

[BlerkOne]

On 8/13/2020 at 11:54 PM, xDisconnections said:

The booking numbers we are told are somewhat skewed. How many of them are simply from passengers who had previous cruises canceled that are left with a credit set to expire if unused in the near future? Carnival, and other cruise lines, already captured that revenue. Those aren’t new dollars coming in.

 

Many of the bookings are new. The cruise credits have expiration dates and I don't believe they reach 2023 yet, certainly not most of them. For the cruises I've looked at, prices in 2023 are even higher.

[Je Souhaite]

4 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Lol.

 

Can’t say I have ever seen one in person.

I’ve seen 2 and the hotel in Cable0 Beach.  All gone.

[xDisconnections]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Many of the bookings are new. The cruise credits have expiration dates and I don't believe they reach 2023 yet, certainly not most of them. For the cruises I've looked at, prices in 2023 are even higher.

The credits expire in mid-to-late 2022 which will be here much sooner than you think. For those who are limited as to when they are able to travel and are not flexible, there might not be many options available.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

The credits expire in mid-to-late 2022 which will be here much sooner than you think. For those who are limited as to when they are able to travel and are not flexible, there might not be many options available.

 

So higher fares for 2023 cruises are because of demand. I suspect a number of OBC will be lost when people fail to follow the simple rules.

[xDisconnections]

4 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

So higher fares for 2023 cruises are because of demand. I suspect a number of OBC will be lost when people fail to follow the simple rules.

Launch fares are usually the highest rates on Princess and generally come down shortly as time progresses.