Viking Expeditions Thread

[SJD117]

1 hour ago, 1985rz1 said:

To me the point is that the OP questioned the judgment of the captain without any factual basis other than an unpleasant experience she and fellow pax had on an expedition adventure, and she intimated the captain may have been demoted on another cruise because of her judgment, again without any factual basis.

 

Reporting her unpleasant experience on a cruise is her right and is information that has a place on this board, but blaming the captain without knowing the facts does not.

 

This is an excellent recap. 
 

Recall how this back-and-forth began. The OP wrote that the then-Silversea captain — now the Viking Polaris captain — had, quote, “issues with judgment.” The OP didn’t elaborate. So reasonable questions came to mind: What were these issues? How did they affect the captain’s judgment? And why was the OP blaming the captain directly?

 

We know now, from the OP, that she and others on the Silversea ship had to experience a 3-mile tender; that the seas were rough with wind and sleet; and that many elderly passengers complained about the bouncy trip. Fair enough. I wasn’t there, the OP was there, and I have no reason to dispute her recollection. (Again, I’ve quoted her directly.)

 

But this is where I’m struggling. How did her experience, uncomfortable as it was, amount to an issue with the captain’s judgment? What exactly did the captain do wrong? Regrettably, the OP hasn’t provided this information.

 

 

[chengkp75]

7 minutes ago, RachelG said:

I was just stating my observations so that people would know the history.

No, you were casting aspersions on the professional capability of a licensed professional, and you were asked to provide your expertise in discerning how those professional capabilities were sub-standard.

4 minutes ago, SJD117 said:

But this is where I’m struggling. How did her experience, uncomfortable as it was, amount to an issue with the captain’s judgment? What exactly did the captain do wrong? Regrettably, the OP hasn’t provided this information.

If the poster had said, we won't sail with this Captain again, because we had poor customer service on these cruises, I would not have had an issue with this.  Why?  Because "customer service" is not a prime responsibility of the Captain, and no cruise ship Captains are licensed to provide good customer service.  But the poster's statements alluded to a lack of safety judgement on the part of the Captain, and that is an area where the Captain's professional training and responsibility come into play, and I wondered how the poster knew that the "judgement" was faulty as to the safety of the passengers.

[SLSD]

It occurs to me that there are ways that the expert mariners in this forum could have worded their posts to be conducive to congeniality (which is important to some).  They COULD have said, there is a difference in an experience (which may not have turned out well) and a Master acting within safety guidelines. 

 

I do see judgement as possibly erring on the side of not careful enough and/or too cautious.  I can see a not sufficiently experienced Master erring on both sides of that coin.  I am in no way suggesting that this was the case with this Master--but just saying that faulty judgement could err in both ways. 

 

I think words and how we express ourselves online are very important.  If we talk in person, we have a chance to gauge perception on the spot and add or modulate what we are saying.  Here, there are misunderstandings that can get out of hand.  

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, RachelG said:

I was just stating my observations so that people would know the history.  I got attacked for doing so, so I will now go back to the Regent and Silversea boards where  opinions are not usually attacked.

 

 

No you did NOT state those were your observations.

 

You stated that you will not sail with this Master again, as you questioned her judgement, without providing any substantiating information, and also alluded that she had been demoted. 

[Squawkman]

2 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

….and also alluded that she had been demoted. 

And also alluded that Viking then hired a demoted captain.

[kjbacon]

18 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

No you did NOT state those were your observations.

 

You stated that you will not sail with this Master again, as you questioned her judgement, without providing any substantiating information, and also alluded that she had been demoted. 

Wait, why isn’t it ok for her to make a decision for herself based on her own experience without meeting your criteria?

[1985rz1]

30 minutes ago, kjbacon said:

Wait, why isn’t it ok for her to make a decision for herself based on her own experience without meeting your criteria?

Certainly she can make a decision herself...I don't think Heidi13 implied otherwise.  What is irresponsible is to suggest to others that her bad experience was the result of the captain making a poor decision when the OP has no knowledge of the basis of the decision....and to suggest without any factual basis that the captain was demoted.

Edited December 10, 2022 by 1985rz1

[Squawkman]

22 minutes ago, kjbacon said:

Wait, why isn’t it ok for her to make a decision for herself based on her own experience without meeting your criteria?

The criteria cited by our resident experts are industry standards, regulations and laws - not necessarily their own criteria.

[Newleno]

3 hours ago, RachelG said:

I was just stating my observations so that people would know the history.  I got attacked for doing so, so I will now go back to the Regent and Silversea boards where  opinions are not usually attacked.

 

BYW, my husband and I have been on VERY rough seas before, so much that an entire lunch buffet was thrown to the floor and on another occasion we were one of only two couples in the dining room at dinner, with chairs chained to the floor.  And on very rough zodiac rides, so to suggest that we just were up for the expedition part of the voyage is false.

Yes in treacherous Antarctica very common for meals to be thrown to the floor, of course the chairs and tables are chained.  Sometimes even the sticky type place mats did not help the plates and utensils from flying in that deadly area of the world.

[philw1776]

So glad our Viking Transatlantic stop in Greenland with its RIB excursion to view & touch icebergs was on a calm, clear 50 degree day. This informative thread has helped me decide that price aside, Antarctica is not for me at this age, despite being agile.

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, Newleno said:

Yes in treacherous Antarctica very common for meals to be thrown to the floor, of course the chairs and tables are chained.  Sometimes even the sticky type place mats did not help the plates and utensils from flying in that deadly area of the world.

 

Having plates, cutlery thrown from the tables was all too common an occurrence on many of the World's oceans, when in heavy weather.

 

When it got really bad and the ship was rolling and pitching heavily, we stopped getting hot meals, as it wasn't safe in the galley. When off-watch we couldn't sleep on the bunks, placing the mattress on the deck and propping it up with lifejackets.

[SantaFe1]

I feel compelled to step in here and ask for everyone to remember what happened.   A woman died!  Through a freak accident, occurring because another freak accident caused a zodiac boat to throw people in the air and cause an injury serious enough to convince the captain that the ship needed to return to Ushuaia.  We had something similar happen on our World cruise.  The captain used his best judgement in a situation that had no good options.  My heart goes out to all on that ship!  Can we please stop bickering and respect the dead, injured, passengers, and crew who endured this terrible tragedy.  

[SantaFe1]

15 minutes ago, Diane and Ron said:

Oh, i thought it had something to do with the big wave or the small excursion boat that they apparently dont know how to handle.

Actually we also had an issue with extremely high winds in the Falklands, where the tender boats were having a terrible time.  On our excursion to Port Stanley, I seem to remember that the tender boat driver had 30 takes to make it to the side of the ship.  And from there, the weather deteriorated even more.  We were supposed to spend the night at anchor,  outside Port Stanley, but at about 8 pm the Captain decided we needed to get out of Dodge, and quickly.  He sent a few officers ashore to round up all the people at the 2-3 pubs, hasten back to the ship, with the ship’s horn blowing.  Believe me, it was not a popular decision, because the next day was the excursion to see the penguins.  But again,  nothing but a good call on the captain’s part to keep us all safe.  We got an extra day in Ushuaia, which was nice, and we got to see penguins at Magdalena Island a few days later.  

Edited December 11, 2022 by SantaFe1

[SantaFe1]

2 minutes ago, kjbacon said:

We are doing a similar itinerary next year and I just signed up for the Magdalena island tour to see penguins. Would you recommend that tour? Thank you.

Yes, on a happier note, it was just wonderful.  An unforgettable day!

 

 

[kjbacon]

Wow that looks amazing, thanks so much for the pictures!! Penguins are huge on my bucket list. Did you take the catamaran over? 

[SantaFe1]

Just now, kjbacon said:

Wow that looks amazing, thanks so much for the pictures!! Penguins are huge on my bucket list. Did you take the catamaran over? 

Yes. That was fun too. Saw other sea life and many birds, as you can imagine. 

[Tarwood3]

On 12/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, Insanityx4 said:

This is off the topic of ship design, windows breaking, Zodiac explosions, and the death of a passenger which was tragic, but I am wondering if anyone knows how and where the Polaris is being repaired and where the parts are coming from? I assume since the ship was built in Italy they would have to come from there. Also, I noticed all Octantis and Polaris cruises have just been listed as "SOLD OUT" until March. Does anyone know if there are more cancellations for safety reasons?

Thanks Andy and the Chief for sharing all of your knowledge from your many years at sea. 

While I can’t say for sure…. We were on Seabourn Venture in Antarctica. Polaris was actually docked next to us in Ushuaia. We both departed within hours of each other.  When we finished our cruise, Polaris was already back in Ushuaia and had been for about 3 days.  She was anchored in the bay…windows of course still broken. Not sure if parts are being flown in or they just haven’t decided how best to handle the repairs yet …that was Dec 5th.  I just checked Marine Traffic and it has moved down the Beagle Channel a few miles to Punta Arenas, Chile…been there since Dec 8th.   

 

Very sad situation….  After having just traveled the Drake Passage twice on this trip, I can say it is ROUGH! Weather is so highly unpredictable in that part of the world.  While in Antarctica, the weather literally changes multiple times in a few hours. We would go from blizzard, high winds, high swells. To an hour later being sunny, gorgeous and calm, then to rain, snow winds, high seas, then fog ….it’s crazy down there.  

[chengkp75]

5 minutes ago, Tarwood3 said:

I just checked Marine Traffic and it has moved down the Beagle Channel a few miles to Punta Arenas, Chile…been there since Dec 8th.   

Yes, Punta Arenas has a major shipyard there, and that is where the repairs will take place.

[Tarwood3]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:35 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

In addition to being at night, the visibility is further reduced by probably rain, sea spray and possibly even other waves, especially when coming out the trough. It is unlikely they would get much, if any warning. The other consideration is even if they did see it coming, it probably would not provide sufficient time to analyse the situation and react.

 

Hopefully the AIBN report will answer these questions.

It’s summer and near the South Pole…it doesn’t get dark.  At 1040pm, it is still quite bright out. We just got off the Seabourn Venture in Antarctica….  The Polaris was docked next to us when we left for our cruise on Nov 25th…they left a couple hours before us.  Even when getting up at 3am to go the bathroom, it was still light out…

[FLORIDA FLOUNDER]

For those of you who went to Buenos Aires a few days early on your own...Did you take a taxi from EZE to your hotel or did you hire a car service before you left for your trip?

[AussieBoyTX]

18 minutes ago, FLORIDA FLOUNDER said:

For those of you who went to Buenos Aires a few days early on your own...Did you take a taxi from EZE to your hotel or did you hire a car service before you left for your trip?

 

I always hire a car in advance for Buenos Aires if I can. I use https://tiendaleon.com If you use Manuel Tienda Leon or equivalent, their booth is after you get your bags and pass through customs, but before you enter the main terminal. Don't miss it.

 

In a pinch, I have used the Ezeiza Taxi. It's a fixed price and you book and pay from the stand before you exit the terminal. IMO, unless you're fluent in Spanish, I wouldn't try an independent, or other way into town.

Edited December 11, 2022 by AussieBoyTX

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, Tarwood3 said:

It’s summer and near the South Pole…it doesn’t get dark.  At 1040pm, it is still quite bright out. We just got off the Seabourn Venture in Antarctica….  The Polaris was docked next to us when we left for our cruise on Nov 25th…they left a couple hours before us.  Even when getting up at 3am to go the bathroom, it was still light out…

 

Yes, to be technically correct, rather than saying it was dark, I should have said they were in twilight, where the amount of available light, when the sun sets, depends greatly on cloud cover. Having spent 20 yrs residing in equivalent high latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere, I have some experience with summer twilights and how much light is available.

 

The 24 hrs of daylight occurs in the Polar regions above 66 degrees and 33 minutes. The latitude of Ushuaia is about 54 48 S, which is about 750 miles north of the Antarctic Circle. The Viking Polaris incident was also 3 weeks prior to the Winter Solstice on 21st December 2022. Therefore, based on her position, the sun had set and she was experiencing twilight conditions, either civil or nautical, probably the latter.

 

In Ushuaia, on 29th November, sunset was 21:46, so to be technically correct, based on the ship's position, it most likely Nautical Twilight, not dark. The definition of Nautical Twilight is the sky is sufficiently dark on a clear day to see stars, but still with a visible horizon to take sights. Nautical Twilight is the middle of the 3 twilights and is when the sun is 6 to 12 degrees below the horizon.

 

Having spent many years at sea, I am reasonably confident that when the rogue wave impacted the ship, while it wasn't pitch dark, the twilight visibility was restricted by storm conditions, which was further reduced by driving spray, rain and wave action. Even in daylight, visibility in a severe storm isn't great.

[Tarwood3]

2 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Yes, to be technically correct, rather than saying it was dark, I should have said they were in twilight, where the amount of available light, when the sun sets, depends greatly on cloud cover. Having spent 20 yrs residing in equivalent high latitudes in the Northern Hemisphere, I have some experience with summer twilights and how much light is available.

 

The 24 hrs of daylight occurs in the Polar regions above 66 degrees and 33 minutes. The latitude of Ushuaia is about 54 48 S, which is about 750 miles north of the Antarctic Circle. The Viking Polaris incident was also 3 weeks prior to the Winter Solstice on 21st December 2022. Therefore, based on her position, the sun had set and she was experiencing twilight conditions, either civil or nautical, probably the latter.

 

In Ushuaia, on 29th November, sunset was 21:46, so to be technically correct, based on the ship's position, it most likely Nautical Twilight, not dark. The definition of Nautical Twilight is the sky is sufficiently dark on a clear day to see stars, but still with a visible horizon to take sights. Nautical Twilight is the middle of the 3 twilights and is when the sun is 6 to 12 degrees below the horizon.

 

Having spent many years at sea, I am reasonably confident that when the rogue wave impacted the ship, while it wasn't pitch dark, the twilight visibility was restricted by storm conditions, which was further reduced by driving spray, rain and wave action. Even in daylight, visibility in a severe storm isn't great.

Well, that was a mouthful…but since I was just there , at the same time, I can assure you, that at 1040p…it was not twilight. There was stil a lot of daylight …there were no stars or anything.  But this debate has really nothing to do with it anyway….  It’s not like they could have avoided the wave even if they had seen it…day or night…so it’s a moot point anyway. 

[AussieBoyTX]

The weather wasn't really stormy with rain per se. For us, what I estimated to be six hours / 90 nautical miles behind Polaris, we alternated between partly cloudy and high overcast with 7-8 meter seas and 50+ knot winds for most of the crossing. I took this first picture at 9PM on Tuesday the 29th and the cabin mess was overnight.

 

 

[Australia08]

Does anyone know if passengers are able to book another cruise while onboard an expedition ship?