Mandatory vaccination

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, hallux said:

Your statement that I quoted was incomplete then.  Fully vaccinated people gathering with fully vaccinated people may do so without masks.  They still may be asked to wear masks by businesses and other entities.

 

In the portion of your precious article that I can read, there is this passage to support my argument - 

The CDC said Monday that fully vaccinated people should continue to take precautions in most circumstances to prevent the spread of the virus that causes Covid-19. People who are fully immunized should continue to wear masks and keep their distance from others in public or while visiting unvaccinated people at higher risk for severe cases of Covid-19, the CDC said.

Do what makes sense for you and your circumstances, and I'll do the same. Period. I take no orders from anyone online, whether I agree with them or not.

 

 

 

[JamieLogical]

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yep, total agreement with you. 👍

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/health/covid-19-vaccine-cdc-guidelines-fully-vaccinated/index.html

I particularly like the line about fully vaccinated people being able to visit other fully vaccinated people without masks or social distancing (emphasis mine). This is a far cry from last year's guidance, and I would argue shows that things are improving. I highly doubt the CDC would have included language like that which I reference above if things weren't on a positive trajectory. Clearly, they are.

My wife and I are about to visit my dad in Florida and I'm not wearing a mask around him. He's been vaccinated and I've recovered, so no need. It's no one else's business but ours.

 

 

I definitely like that part too. It speaks to what cruising might be able to be like if there is a vaccine mandate for crew and passengers. If masks and social distancing aren't required when all parties are vaccinated, then there is no reason that on-ship life, at least, should be able to return to pretty much normal. It would only be off ship, when crew and passengers are mixing with uncertain populations that masks and social distancing would still be required.

Edited March 8, 2021 by JamieLogical

[DCGuy64]

Just now, JamieLogical said:

 

I definitely like that part to. It speaks to what cruising might be able to be like if there is a vaccine mandate for crew and passengers. If masks and social distancing aren't required when all parties are vaccinated, then there is no reason that on-ship life, at least, should be able to return to pretty much normal. It would only be off ship, when crew and passengers are mixing with uncertain populations that masks and social distancing would still be required.

Well said, @JamieLogical, as usual. 😀

[AtlantaAlly]

18 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I definitely like that part too. It speaks to what cruising might be able to be like if there is a vaccine mandate for crew and passengers. If masks and social distancing aren't required when all parties are vaccinated, then there is no reason that on-ship life, at least, should be able to return to pretty much normal. It would only be off ship, when crew and passengers are mixing with uncertain populations that masks and social distancing would still be required.

It also makes for a completely child free cruising experience which would cause many to celebrate- but may increase cruise rates because kids add revenue with little cost vs an adult. 

[RocketMan275]

27 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Yep, total agreement with you. 👍

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/08/health/covid-19-vaccine-cdc-guidelines-fully-vaccinated/index.html

I particularly like the line about fully vaccinated people being able to visit other fully vaccinated people without masks or social distancing (emphasis mine). This is a far cry from last year's guidance, and I would argue shows that things are improving. I highly doubt the CDC would have included language like that which I reference above if things weren't on a positive trajectory. Clearly, they are.

 

 

I suspect this new guidance was released to encourage vaccinations.  It is very difficult to argue that people should get vaccinated and then still have to adhere to all the rules for the unvaccinated.  These new 'recommendations' provide an incentive for vaccinations.

[JamieLogical]

3 minutes ago, AtlantaAlly said:

It also makes for a completely child free cruising experience which would cause many to celebrate- but may increase cruise rates because kids add revenue with little cost vs an adult. 

 

I see a glimmer of "hope" for allowing unvaccinated children on board in this line: "Visit indoors with unvaccinated people from a single household without masks or physical distancing, if the unvaccinated people are at low risk for severe disease."

 

Obviously, all the children on board wouldn't be from a single household, but they would certainly be considered "low risk for severe disease", so maybe once these guidelines are expanded more, we might see them drop the single household requirements. Dr. Walensky said they will be revising the guidance for vaccinated people frequently. For instance, right now they are still recommending that vaccinated people not travel, but she indicated that she hopes that can be lifted in the next update to the guidance.

 

PS: I put "hope in quotes above, because child-free cruises sound AMAZING to me, but I know some cruisers will want to bring their children and grandchildren along when cruising restarts.

[PTC DAWG]

28 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I definitely like that part too. It speaks to what cruising might be able to be like if there is a vaccine mandate for crew and passengers. If masks and social distancing aren't required when all parties are vaccinated, then there is no reason that on-ship life, at least, should be able to return to pretty much normal. It would only be off ship, when crew and passengers are mixing with uncertain populations that masks and social distancing would still be required.

Sounds plausible to me.  Let's roll.  

[mpk218]

Right then !!!!!  No more masks ... Lets get cruising !!   Im booked , but I wont say when 🤭

[CILCIANRQTS]

6 minutes ago, mpk218 said:

Right then !!!!!  No more masks ... Lets get cruising !!   Im booked , but I wont say when 🤭

 

Thank you!! 👍

Now, who thinks my August cruise will go?? JUST KIDDING!!!!! 😉

[coffeebean]

2 hours ago, Bear Down said:

I got my first Pfizer vaccine 3 days ago and didn't feel a thing. I've had no sore arm and no symptoms at all. It affects everybody differently. I've known people that missed work with a fever, headache and the chills. Good luck with a symptom free second shot.

Actually, having a vaccine side effect is a good thing. I'm 71 and I had a kick ass side effect after the second shot of the Moderna vaccine. 

 

Seems it is the younger folks who have been having the vaccine side effects and the older folks mostly skate by with no side effects. As a person ages, their immune system is not as robust as it was when they were younger. Believe me, I know my immune system hasn't given up on me yet. That 102.6 fever that lasted several hours certainly told me so. By the next day, I was perfectly fine and good to go.

 

This is a very informative video......

Vaccine Side Effects Are Actually A GOOD Thing

[JamieLogical]

11 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

Actually, having a vaccine side effect is a good thing. I'm 71 and I had a kick ass side effect after the second shot of the Moderna vaccine. 

 

Seems it is the younger folks who have been having the vaccine side effects and the older folks mostly skate by with no side effects. As a person ages, their immune system is not as robust as it was when they were younger. Believe me, I know my immune system hasn't given up on me yet. That 102.6 fever that lasted several hours certainly told me so. By the next day, I was perfectly fine and good to go.

 

This is a very informative video......

Vaccine Side Effects Are Actually A GOOD Thing

 

I've only had my first dose of Pfizer so far. My husband and I are the same age (41) and got vaccinated the same day. He experienced burning in his arm while stopping to pump gas on the way home from his appointment. I didn't have any symptoms at all until overnight, when my arm started hurting enough that I had to roll onto my other side while sleeping. We both had pretty sore arms the whole next day. Not so sore as to not be able to use my arm, but sore enough that when I did use it, I noticed! Then, my husband was fine the next day. I had some soreness still that second day after my shot and I developed a red "splotch" at the vaccination site. It is about 1.5 inches in diameter. It remained about a week, then started to turn kind of the color of an old bruise? Yellow/brown? It was almost completely gone after two days of that, but then yesterday, 10 days out, it turned bright red again. So now I once again have a bright red splotch on my arm where I received my first vaccine dose on Feb. 25.

 

Oh well, if I still have the splotch when it's time for my second dose on the 18th, I'll just have them give me the shot in my other arm. Other than the splotch, I feel completely normal and haven't had any pain since that second day after the shot.

[HBCcruiser]

This looks VERY promising as well: New therapeutic drug "Molnupiravir" from Merck & Co Inc is showing a quick reduction in the C19 virus when taken early-on, similar to Tamiflu. It could hit the American market in a few months. 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/covid-antiviral-treatment-merck-says-this-drug-causes-quick-reduction-in-virus-11615011475826.html

[OZ.]

On 2/19/2021 at 4:26 PM, linbobky said:

We take the flu shots every year, so why not the vaccine shot every year?

It would be nice if the covid jabs work for longer than a year. I know we won’t know until later, but it would be seriously nice.

Edited March 8, 2021 by OZ.

[OZ.]

18 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

This looks VERY promising as well: New therapeutic drug "Molnupiravir" from Merck & Co Inc is showing a quick reduction in the C19 virus when taken early-on, similar to Tamiflu. It could hit the American market in a few months. 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/covid-antiviral-treatment-merck-says-this-drug-causes-quick-reduction-in-virus-11615011475826.html

That would really be another game changer. 

[OZ.]

1 hour ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I see a glimmer of "hope" for allowing unvaccinated children on board in this line: "Visit indoors with unvaccinated people from a single household without masks or physical distancing, if the unvaccinated people are at low risk for severe disease."

 

Obviously, all the children on board wouldn't be from a single household, but they would certainly be considered "low risk for severe disease", so maybe once these guidelines are expanded more, we might see them drop the single household requirements. Dr. Walensky said they will be revising the guidance for vaccinated people frequently. For instance, right now they are still recommending that vaccinated people not travel, but she indicated that she hopes that can be lifted in the next update to the guidance.

 

PS: I put "hope in quotes above, because child-free cruises sound AMAZING to me, but I know some cruisers will want to bring their children and grandchildren along when cruising restarts.

Maybe most children but not all so I don’t see how this is a good thing.

[JamieLogical]

4 minutes ago, OZ. said:

Maybe most children but not all so I don’t see how this is a good thing.

 

We are never going to get to ZERO risk from COVID-19. We are just trying to get to low risk, especially low risk of hospitalization and death. Even is all children on board were vaccinated as well, the risk would not be zero. None of the vaccines are 100% effective against infection and while they were 100% effective against hospitalization and death in trials, they are unlikely to quite that successful at scale in the real world.

 

I won't be complaining if cruise lines do require vaccines for ALL passengers, and therefor no kids can sail in the near term. But I do think it would be low risk if unvaccinated kids do sail. What I would REALLY hate to see is the need for social distancing and masks just because there are unvaccinated kids sailing. If the choice is require vaccines for all or require masks/social distancing for all, I would definitely choose vaccines!

[winterbliss]

I am more concerned with children being given vaccines that have not worked their way through the whole process of the trials....all the way to the completion dates of same. It's shocking to me that I don't hear many concerns. These are all experimental vaccines.

[AstoriaPreppy]

9 minutes ago, winterbliss said:

These are all experimental vaccines.

This is a bit of a misconception: the "experimental" part of science are vaccine trials. This is where statistical analysis tells us whether or not vaccines are safe and effective, what side effects are present, etc etc etc. No vaccine currently available to the public is considered experimental (no matter what a social media post may say).

Currently, many of the major vaccine manufacturers are just starting vaccine trials on children, so we can expect them to show up sooner or later if they prove safe and effective. 

[AtlantaAlly]

1 hour ago, winterbliss said:

I am more concerned with children being given vaccines that have not worked their way through the whole process of the trials....all the way to the completion dates of same. It's shocking to me that I don't hear many concerns. These are all experimental vaccines.

As mentioned above, these are not “experimental.” They were granted EUA in the US vs full FDA approval but still had to meet the high safety and efficacy conditions set by the FDA. They are continuing to monitor for Adverse Events. In typical vaccines, reactions after 60 days is pretty much unheard of. Millions of people around the world have gotten to that 60 day mark. 
 

Additionally, because it is (somewhat) new technology, there were concerns about the long term effects. Pfizer and Moderna were drilled on this during the Vaccine Board meeting with FDA. Key items of note: 1) none of the mRNA was found in the nucleus of the cell in multiple live animal and human trials - so there is no risk of it altering your germ line DNA. 2) our bodies breakdown free-floating mRNA as waste in a matter of hours (this is why the fat particles that encapsulate it were so important). 
 

There have been ongoing clinical trials for mRNA vaccines for other viruses. Less than 1 in 1,000,000 participants have died as a direct result of getting these types of vaccines. (1 in 600 in the US have died from Covid) One should be cautious and prepared to treat the side effects - elderly have to worry about dehydration caused by fever so having a lot of water, and fever reducers ready are needed. Shouldn’t be afraid to seek medical help, as needed. 

[roger001]

4 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

I've only had my first dose of Pfizer so far. My husband and I are the same age (41) and got vaccinated the same day. He experienced burning in his arm while stopping to pump gas on the way home from his appointment. I didn't have any symptoms at all until overnight, when my arm started hurting enough that I had to roll onto my other side while sleeping. We both had pretty sore arms the whole next day. Not so sore as to not be able to use my arm, but sore enough that when I did use it, I noticed! Then, my husband was fine the next day. I had some soreness still that second day after my shot and I developed a red "splotch" at the vaccination site. It is about 1.5 inches in diameter. It remained about a week, then started to turn kind of the color of an old bruise? Yellow/brown? It was almost completely gone after two days of that, but then yesterday, 10 days out, it turned bright red again. So now I once again have a bright red splotch on my arm where I received my first vaccine dose on Feb. 25.

 

Oh well, if I still have the splotch when it's time for my second dose on the 18th, I'll just have them give me the shot in my other arm. Other than the splotch, I feel completely normal and haven't had any pain since that second day after the shot.

My wife and I felt nothing.  However she did develop red rash and itch which lasted over a week. Our family doctor looked at it and said no sweat but if there at second shot time just use the other arm. It was gone by then though. 

[AtlantaAlly]

Also, I have 3 children under 8. My hope is that we can get it under control by reaching herd immunity without them needing a vaccination, but it seems like not enough people 16+ are willing to get it, so I will review the FDA data at that time and make decisions for our family based on the scientific evidence and clinical trial data- with particular attention to dosing. I expect 12+ will be eligible by end of August.

[winterbliss]

1 hour ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

This is a bit of a misconception: the "experimental" part of science are vaccine trials. This is where statistical analysis tells us whether or not vaccines are safe and effective, what side effects are present, etc etc etc. No vaccine currently available to the public is considered experimental (no matter what a social media post may say).

Currently, many of the major vaccine manufacturers are just starting vaccine trials on children, so we can expect them to show up sooner or later if they prove safe and effective. 

Well, I for one, would never in a million years offer up my child for a vaccine which no one can possibly know what the side effects are as yet. The Pfizer vaccine has an estimated study completion date of January, 2023...Moderna, December 2022. It's simply incomprehensible to me. It's pharmaceutical companies we're talking about.

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, GonzoWCS said:

Does this mean zero kids on cruises for a short time?

Hopefully to get the ships sailing again with 100% vaccinated passengers and crew. I'm hopeful a vaccine mandate will be implemented for all passengers and crew. That excludes children until there is an approved vaccine for them.

[coffeebean]

7 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

 

The CDC never had the power to *mandate* masks. They have always only ever made recommendations... 

That does not look to be true. Take a look at this......

CDC to make masks mandatory in cruise terminals and cruise ships in the US

[sugcarol]

4 minutes ago, coffeebean said:

That does not look to be true. Take a look at this......

CDC to make masks mandatory in cruise terminals and cruise ships in the US

This was published 6 weeks ago.