CDC Open To U.S Cruising This Summer

[beg3yrs]

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Been a lawyer for almost 30 years and quick-trigger lawsuits have never been my favored approach.  I know it certainly is with ambulance chasers.  And, you're right.  It is just "attention getting", nothing more.  Political theater by our Governor, not likely to resolve anything quickly or easily.

This is probably naive but if the lawsuit gets the CDC to take another fresh look at its technical instructions that would be something.

 

In my engineering experience it's always been better to initially understand what requirements are, i.e. what we want to achieve and how well something must be done rather than just tell someone what to do. If the CDC had told industry what and how well, the industry could have set out to achieve these requirements with solutions of their own design that would have been acceptable to both industry and the CDC. But alas, that kind of approach evidently isn't in their playbook.

[harkinmr]

8 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

This is probably naive but if the lawsuit gets the CDC to take another fresh look at its technical instructions that would be something.

 

In my engineering experience it's always been better to initially understand what requirements are, i.e. what we want to achieve and how well something must be done rather than just tell someone what to do. If the CDC had told industry what and how well, the industry could have set out to achieve these requirements with solutions of their own design that would have been acceptable to both industry and the CDC. But alas, that kind of approach evidently isn't in their playbook.

I don't think that it's necessarily not in their "playbook".  It's simply not their area of expertise.  It is up to the cruise lines to present plans in response to technical instructions as to how they expect to meet those instructions.  Then there can be further discussion.  The lawsuit "might" serve to force a fresh look at those instructions, but the tone and relief sought is to simply negate the CSO in its entirety.  It would have been better to have the cruise lines come back to the April 2nd instructions with something other than "we can't and won't do it".  They really have known what would be expected (in general terms) since last October, but they clearly aren't interested in doing it.  Time and money probably being the primary concerns.   Finally, even since the lawsuit was filed the cruise lines have insisted that they want to work with the CDC.  So now it's important to show (in detail, not platitudes) how they intend to do that.

Edited April 10, 2021 by harkinmr

[voljeep]

5 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

 Finally, even since the lawsuit was filed the cruise lines have insisted that they want to work with the CDC.  So now it's important to show (in detail, not platitudes) how they intend to do that.

with crew vaccinations at the forefront, right ? 😉 🤑

[harkinmr]

1 minute ago, voljeep said:

with crew vaccinations at the forefront, right ? 😉 🤑

Yes, at least with NCL and RCG.  Carnival Corp has made no commitment on vaccinations as yet.  And the only line to actually put their commitment to crew/passenger vaccinations in writing is NCL.  Even RCG is still being a bit squirrelly about vaccines on US based ships.  But we'll see.  I'd like to see them all commit, in writing, to the CDC, a full vaccination plan and all other health and safety protocols they intend to apply.

[rabin1]

4 hours ago, ontheweb said:

I'm not quite sure I understand your position on this. Do you think it would have been better for the pharmacies with doses left at the end of the day that would go bad to say too bad, we would rather throw it away than give a non-resident the dose?

No No no I think whatever is left should be given away given is my key word whether to people who come in late, employees whoever but none of the vaccines should ever go to waste no matter what venue is doing the doses. To my knowledge from what I see on the news none has been destroyed and I am a happy camper. 

 

I am not going to say any more on this subject as it is not what the original poster thread was about. Personally I think changing the thread to another topic in the middle should not be permitted and a new thread should be started if someone wants to change topics. Just my opinion only...... so now watch people will comment on this..........lol

Kathy

Edited April 10, 2021 by rabin1

[HappyInVan]

2 hours ago, voljeep said:

vaccines are now available for 16 and up in Florida - and if you WANT a vaccine - you can get one with a little effort

 

 

Here's some interesting facts. In terms of vaccination, Alaska at the top. They've opened up to 16+ on March 9.

 

On the other hand, Florida under this government is at the bottom...

 

" Florida ranks 36th in percentage of population with at least one shot, 35th in percentage of a fully vaccinated population, and 40th in percentage of shots used."

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/which-states-actually-have-a-subpar-vaccine-rollout/

 

So, the fact that Florida government is opening eligibility to 16+ is a bad sign. IMO, the states will have a vaccination rate in the range 50-80% of eligible residents. So, pick a number for FL.

 

Not a surprise, since FL has no mask mandate. Governor has said that biz cannot check for vaccine status. My expectation is that FL will remain a superspreader state. Should the CDC allow cruises to resume from FL?

 

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/covid-19-the-truth-about-super-spreaders/103490/

 

Common sense should tell you that CDC must impose some performance requirement. For example, the positivity rate in CA is 1-2%. Status GREEN!

 

 

 

[voljeep]

3 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Should the CDC allow cruises to resume from FL?

yes, of course - those that want to cruise will be vaccinated - the % of total population does not equate to the Princess demographic of cruisers - you left that part out ..

 

and as far as crew - our next cruise is on the REGAL - crew at full capacity  - 1,300 + ... that's an easy one day pop-up tent

 

stay in that Canadian bubble ! you'll be safe - until you go stir cray cray

 

get busy living

[HappyInVan]

2 minutes ago, voljeep said:

stay in that Canadian bubble ! you'll be safe - until you go stir cray cray

 

 

Yes, there's a lot of mental problems out there. Very evident on CC. 🙄

 

For myself, I keep myself busy and suck it up. I haven't been outside metro Vancouver since last September! 🙂

[voljeep]

3 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Yes, there's a lot of mental problems out there. Very evident on CC. 🙄

 

For myself, I keep myself busy and suck it up. I haven't been outside metro Vancouver since last September! 🙂

and we've been on a North Carolina beach vacation ( drove ) for a week, last summer - also spent 3 day trips going to WDW, and wife has flown at least 2 times to see the kids

 

stay safe 😷

stay hydrated 🧊

get vaccinated 🥼 if you want to cruise

[Ken the cruiser]

Anyone heard of any movement on the part of Princess to work on the Phase 2A preparatory requirements defined in the CDC Technical Instructions to prepare the Caribbean Princess for her Phase 2B test cruise? Seems to me that would be the smart move to reach the potential goal of Phase 4 restricted cruises starting in July, especially when all the other cruise lines seem to be dragging their feet in this area. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[Potstech]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Here's some interesting facts. In terms of vaccination, Alaska at the top. They've opened up to 16+ on March 9.

 

On the other hand, Florida under this government is at the bottom...

 

" Florida ranks 36th in percentage of population with at least one shot, 35th in percentage of a fully vaccinated population, and 40th in percentage of shots used."

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/which-states-actually-have-a-subpar-vaccine-rollout/

 

So, the fact that Florida government is opening eligibility to 16+ is a bad sign. IMO, the states will have a vaccination rate in the range 50-80% of eligible residents. So, pick a number for FL.

 

Not a surprise, since FL has no mask mandate. Governor has said that biz cannot check for vaccine status. My expectation is that FL will remain a superspreader state. Should the CDC allow cruises to resume from FL?

 

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/covid-19-the-truth-about-super-spreaders/103490/

 

Common sense should tell you that CDC must impose some performance requirement. For example, the positivity rate in CA is 1-2%. Status GREEN!

 

 

 

Canada at 1.9% with all shots and 16% with only one shot with up to 4 months to get the second. Notice you never seem to mention the problems Canada is having even just obtaining vaccines. Always about the US for some reason. I guess you are trying to hide your own country's failings.

 

 

The governor has not said anything of the sort. All he has said is that the state will not recognize any PASSPORT or other government required vaccine identification.  Please show where he said no business can check vaccine status. If so then all a businesses will have to shut down. Not going to happen. Why is eligibility open to 16+ a bad sign?

Edited April 10, 2021 by Potstech

[harkinmr]

15 minutes ago, Potstech said:

Canada at 1.9% with all shots and 16% with only one shot with up to 4 months to get the second. Notice you never seem to mention the problems Canada is having even just obtaining vaccines. Always about the US for some reason. I guess you are trying to hide your own country's failings.

 

 

The governor has not said anything of the sort. All he has said is that the state will not recognize any PASSPORT or other government required vaccine identification.  Please show where he said no business can check vaccine status. If so then all a businesses will have to shut down. Not going to happen. Why is eligibility open to 16+ a bad sign?

Here you go!  In black and white.  See Section 2:

 

"Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business."

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

Edited April 10, 2021 by harkinmr

[gmjc2]

23 hours ago, voljeep said:

right back at you - we disagree

 

central florida resident and homeowner over 30 years

wife is frontline healthcare worker

both vac'd 9+ weeks since second - at her work , Pfizer, thru Walgreen's ( Not Publix )

family unit member - not eligible until now - has appointment at PUBLIX on tuesday - took 2 tries online to book

 

so, yeah

 

my glass is always HALF-FULL 🥃 - looking for the can, not the can not 

Finally figured out your  " altered state" !!

So central Florida--so are we!  We may not always agree but I look forward to your posts! 

[memoak]

18 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Here you go!  In black and white.  See Section 2:

 

"Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business."

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

 

[memoak]

Just now, memoak said:

 

So if DeSantis doesn’t allow businesses to demand proof of vaccination and the cruise lines do who will blink first ?  My bet is Desantis

[Potstech]

19 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Here you go!  In black and white.  See Section 2:

 

"Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business."

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

So even medical facilities and health care workers can not ask about vaccination status in Florida? How about airlines, trains and buses originating in Florida?  How about businesses not in Florida who will be having travelers go to Florida?  Basically he is saying no business, including the federal government and the military can do business in Florida. Not likely.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Potstech

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, Potstech said:

So even medical facilities and health care workers can not ask about vaccination status in Florida? How about airlines, trains and buses originating in Florida?  How about businesses not in Florida who will be having travelers go to Florida?  Basically he is saying no business, including the federal government and the military can do business in Florida. Not likely.

The term "business in Florida" is not clearly defined.  I think he did that purposely to drag in as many businesses as possible, including those that may be incorporated elsewhere; the prohibition would apply to any company legally doing business in the state.  His EO would not apply to the federal government or its agencies, or any interstate transport.  And, yes, it would appear that he wants to include medical facilities.  Personally, I don't believe that this provision will be enforceable at all.  The "passport" creation by state governmental agencies could be.  He has said that he includes cruise lines in the prohibition and would not provide an exemption, which could be a wrench in starting cruising.  Doesn't make any sense at all.

Edited April 11, 2021 by harkinmr

[Potstech]

So it is not all encompassing as you inferred prior.  Also why did you not also show Section 5 of his executive order?

And this was instigated because of the current effort to establish a Federal COVID Passport not just in some states.

 

Agree it does not make sense in its all encompassing nature at the same time Florida is pushing to reopen cruise ports.  

Edited April 11, 2021 by Potstech

[Fat Albert]

21 hours ago, harkinmr said:

Here you go!  In black and white.  See Section 2:

 

"Businesses in Florida are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying COVID-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry upon, or service from the business."

 

https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf

 

Cruise ships have foreign flags, they are NOT US businesses.  They are only in port to drop off passengers and pick up new ones. The ship is then sent to open waters and they pay taxes to a foreign country for operating under that flag. The HQ are just administration offices and those employees are either citizens or work with visas. If the ships were US businesses we would not need to stop in Mexico or Alaska out of the west coast when the company does Hawaii or Alaska from US ports.

[Fat Albert]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:35 AM, HappyInVan said:

 

Here's some interesting facts. In terms of vaccination, Alaska at the top. They've opened up to 16+ on March 9.

 

On the other hand, Florida under this government is at the bottom...

 

" Florida ranks 36th in percentage of population with at least one shot, 35th in percentage of a fully vaccinated population, and 40th in percentage of shots used."

 

https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/which-states-actually-have-a-subpar-vaccine-rollout/

 

So, the fact that Florida government is opening eligibility to 16+ is a bad sign. IMO, the states will have a vaccination rate in the range 50-80% of eligible residents. So, pick a number for FL.

 

Not a surprise, since FL has no mask mandate. Governor has said that biz cannot check for vaccine status. My expectation is that FL will remain a superspreader state. Should the CDC allow cruises to resume from FL?

 

https://www.openaccessgovernment.org/covid-19-the-truth-about-super-spreaders/103490/

 

Common sense should tell you that CDC must impose some performance requirement. For example, the positivity rate in CA is 1-2%. Status GREEN!

 

 

 

OTTAWA — Canada's race for Covid vaccines quickly exposed a flaw: It lacked the capacity to produce any.

The absence of domestic manufacturing forced the Trudeau government from the get-go into a global .  So far, Canada has had to rely entirely on over-burdened foreign supply chains for a Covid vaccine rollout that has lagged international peers, including the United States. competition to attract drug producers to the country’s shores. The biomanufacturing scarcity in Canada has highlighted the health risks of foreign dependence as well as the political ones. 

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has faced flak for Canada’s program to get doses into arms. Trudeau has predicted everyone who wants to get vaccinated will be able to by September, though he’s recently said the timeline could end up being shorter. Just 1.76 percent of Canadians were fully vaccinated as of March 27 and only around 10 percent had received one dose, says the Public Health Agency of Canada.

 

Dr. Alan Bernstein, a member of Canada’s Covid-19 Vaccine Task Force, said in an interview that the pandemic has reinforced the need for governments to partner with the private sector.

For example, he said the U.S. government has had success by partnering with drug makers on a vaccine through the Trump administration’s accelerator Operation Warp Speed. In contrast, he said the European Union decided it would only be a consumer.

 

Pamela Fralick, who heads the pharma industry association in Canada, said that conditions in the country haven’t been hospitable to the sector for decades. In recent years, she said the Trudeau government's costly regulatory measures made it worse.

“Just about every country in the world will feel blindsided by this pandemic. ... Canada’s certainly not alone,” she said, noting only a handful of countries produce the vaccines. “We were caught flat footed.”

 

[harkinmr]

5 minutes ago, Fat Albert said:

Cruise ships have foreign flags, they are NOT US businesses.  They are only in port to drop off passengers and pick up new ones. The ship is then sent to open waters and they pay taxes to a foreign country for operating under that flag. The HQ are just administration offices and those employees are either citizens or work with visas. If the ships were US businesses we would not need to stop in Mexico or Alaska out of the west coast when the company does Hawaii or Alaska from US ports.

Ok, first, the quote you set out was a direct response to another poster when they made an incorrect statement that the Governor's order did not apply to businesses.  Second, cruise lines, although they operate with foreign-flagged ships, they do lawfully engage in business in Florida.  Third, the Governor has specifically stated that he believes that the cruise lines are subject to his prohibition and would not receive an exemption.  Now, that being said, I believe that his entire executive order is political theater to please his base of voters, and that any attempt to prohibit Florida businesses from implementing reasonable restrictions on patrons will not be successful.  Businesses in this state are able to implement non-discriminatory restrictions on services, which is why many of those businesses still require masks and social distancing, for example, although the Governor lifted COVID protocols long ago.

[Fat Albert]

Do you live in the USA? Do you understand the US tax code ? A company in US ordering from a US company any goods or services will be taxed accordingly.  If you order a drink package on embarkation you pay US sales taxes. If you wait to sail you can eliminate those taxes. Your understanding of doing business is incorrect. The difference of the Federal Government  (CDC) discussing a vaccine passport and the states rights are in conflict of our Constitutional amendments of states rights. We are 50 separate governments that are united in one Nation.  The Vaccine is an emergency executive order and it is only suggested. It is NOT a LAW to be vaccinated and therefore, to make all citizens require proof of vaccine for free movement and entry in public or private business is not mandatory by law.  We are free people and we earned our freedoms. Are you a US Citizen? 

[Babr]

I was not aware of any federal push to implement a passport. The press secretary addressed that at a recent briefing. She said there would not be a federal requirement for vaccines nor would there be a federal database.

So what is the source of all the outrage? Who is forcing anyone to have a passport?

 

[Roberto256]

On 4/10/2021 at 12:47 PM, HappyInVan said:

 

Yes, there's a lot of mental problems out there. Very evident on CC. 🙄

 

For myself, I keep myself busy and suck it up. I haven't been outside metro Vancouver since last September! 🙂

 

No disrespect, but every time I saw one of your posts, I thought your toured in a van, or lived in a van, or something...

Lots of people here tour in their RVs...

 

Now, I'm thinking it's vancouver.

 

Or, the ultimate, in a van in vancouver!

 

 

[mnocket]

13 minutes ago, Babr said:

So what is the source of all the outrage? Who is forcing anyone to have a passport?

Rage typically lingers far past its expiration date.

 

I am opposed to vaccine passports and agree that the push for government issued passports has evaporated.  Time to find something new to ***** about😜