New vaccination thread

[neptuno]

2 hours ago, sidari said:

For the USA  you may get away with it, but in Europe you have no chance because their business relies on families many of whom are Italians. If you want a totally vaccinated ship there will be plenty of US cruise lines happy to oblige you. The last thing the Majority want is MSC to become just like the rest.

Totally agree, that is why "all adults" should be vaccinated.

[Até]

17 hours ago, sidari said:

For the USA  you may get away with it, but in Europe you have no chance because their business relies on families many of whom are Italians.

European families will not save MSC from a bad business decision of relying on pre-vaccination spread prevention protocols of masks, social distancing and excursion bubbles.  Europe will soon begin relaxing restrictions like in the US and those families too will have many more palatable vacation opportunities that do not require going back to the mandatory COVID-19 protection protocols which unvaccinated cruising by it's very nature will require.  Meanwhile the cruise lines that offer vaccinated cruises with an almost pre-pandemic experience will decimate MSC's customer base.

[ziggyuk]

9 hours ago, Até said:

European families will not save MSC from a bad business decision of relying on pre-vaccination spread prevention protocols of masks, social distancing and excursion bubbles.  Europe will soon begin relaxing restrictions like in the US and those families too will have many more palatable vacation opportunities that do not require going back to the mandatory COVID-19 protection protocols which unvaccinated cruising by it's very nature will require.  Meanwhile the cruise lines that offer vaccinated cruises with an almost pre-pandemic experience will decimate MSC's customer base.

 

Completely agree and worse that that non-vaccinated people will have one choice and that's MSC, meaning an un-proportionally high level of un vaccinated onboard. 

The risks for MSC to then get an outbreak increases significantly.
 

[Homosassa]

My opinion is that MSC will need to make decisions based on the status of vaccination rates in each world market.

 

While MSC will have difficulties at this point in offering cruises with fully vaccinated passengers from European ports, the situation is different in the US.

 

Vaccinations are freely  available for ages twelve and up in the US. I have read statements that the lower age limit is expected to be dropped to six sometime at the end of the third quarter/early fourth quarter of 2021. There was also statements about two and up, but I do not remember the projected time frame (studies have been ongoing for several months at this point).

 

While there would be a problem with the international mix of passengers on board which MSC tries to provide with the package tours from various markets, there could also be a work around with a land/cruise package that includes flying in several weeks early, receiving the readily available one shot (jab) J&J vaccine, and boarding the ship two weeks later.

 

Personally, I am still waiting to learn the go/no go status of July Miami sailings.

 

There is an option of cruises starting without trial sailings if the cruise line goes with the 98% crew/95% passenger vaccination rate. No word from MSC on which option it will decide on.

 

As noted in previous posts of mine, if one closely reads every word in the Florida state Executive Order and the law passed that includes verbiage about "vaccine passports," there is the wording that the restrictions do not apply when following other public health mandates from other state or government (federal) authorities. CDC (federal) mandates will supersede local restrictions. 

 

While I would hope for a "vaccinated" cruise, the reason I booked MSC back in December is because we were impressed with the controls on out MSC Armonia cruise in March 2020 (the last sailing from Miami). We still would have no problem cruising with a mixed population on board of vaccinated and, by choice, the unwashed -err- unvaccinated.

 

From what I have read of the MSC controls in place on the Grandiosa sailings, precautions are stronger than on our Armonia cruise. 

[Chrish2]

I would bet MSC (and their insurers) are probably looking at the situation frequently. At some point in the short to mid term the scales have to tip to a change in policy even if there is some inertia. It might be by region but once they doe start making changes there will be pressure to bring it in line wide.

 

In my situation I'm waiting until two vaccinations before taking any cruise. That's a layer of protection. We know none of these layers of protection are foolproof so as an extra layer of protection I would want those sharing an enclosed system like a cruise ship to also have taken such precaution. Such simple steps reduce the risk significantly. Each person boarding is less likely to be infected before boarding, if they are infected then they are less likely to transmit to others, others on board are also less likely to pick up from an infected individual.

[Até]

19 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

While I would hope for a "vaccinated" cruise, the reason I booked MSC back in December is because we were impressed with the controls on out MSC Armonia cruise in March 2020 (the last sailing from Miami). We still would have no problem cruising with a mixed population on board of vaccinated and, by choice, the unwashed -err- unvaccinated.

 

From what I have read of the MSC controls in place on the Grandiosa sailings, precautions are stronger than on our Armonia cruise. 

My outlook on EU sailings is bleak.  I had three EU bookings for this Fall and slowly it's now down to one.  It's supposed to visit several EU countries which in itself is going to be difficult for MSC to pull off with their current protocols.  The chances of MSC getting permissions to drop the masking, limited venue capacities and excursion bubbles is even less.  The only way I'm going to make final payment in July is if MSC goes the full vaccination route.  That is the only way I see MSC being able to pull off the itinerary.  I'm not making final payment just to have MSC pull a one or two country itinerary change, that's already happened to my other sailings.  I'm not so desperate to cruise that any of MSC's currently sailing itineraries look worthwhile to me.  And additionally if they go the vaccination route there's actually a possibility of dropping several COVID-19 protocols on board, which for me would otherwise make the cruise a non-vacation.

 

Now that the CDC has given some decent guidance to vaccinated cruises I'm looking for US sailings, once prices settle down or maybe I can find a last minute deal I'll be booked.    My fondness for the MSC product will not outweigh the non-vacccinated CDC protocols, there is no way I'd book MSC unless they also go the vaccinated route.  Too many cruise line choices where I don't have to feel like I went back into lock down.  Otherwise I'll just take land vacations.

[Até]

20 minutes ago, Chrish2 said:

I would bet MSC (and their insurers) are probably looking at the situation frequently. At some point in the short to mid term the scales have to tip to a change in policy even if there is some inertia. It might be by region but once they doe start making changes there will be pressure to bring it in line wide.

You bring up an interesting point that I've been thinking about for a few days, the cruise line's port agreements and insurers. I think the cruise lines are protecting themselves from passenger claims, the COVID-19 contracts I've seen pretty much absolve them from any liability.  But I'm really not familiar with the costs or insurance regarding meeting the CDC protocols in the US and foreign ports.  Surely when negotiating port facility fees, isolation facilities contracts and sick passenger return agreements some weight is given to a line that is sailing only vaccinated passengers.  I would expect the cruise lines are also insuring themselves to cover those cost possibilities.  I have no idea how those cost differences could affect the cruise lines bottom line, but it's an interesting subject.

Edited May 29, 2021 by Até

[Homosassa]

40 minutes ago, Até said:

My outlook on EU sailings is bleak.  I had three EU bookings for this Fall and slowly it's now down to one.  It's supposed to visit several EU countries which in itself is going to be difficult for MSC to pull off with their current protocols.  The chances of MSC getting permissions to drop the masking, limited venue capacities and excursion bubbles is even less.  The only way I'm going to make final payment in July is if MSC goes the full vaccination route.  That is the only way I see MSC being able to pull off the itinerary.  I'm not making final payment just to have MSC pull a one or two country itinerary change, that's already happened to my other sailings.  I'm not so desperate to cruise that any of MSC's currently sailing itineraries look worthwhile to me.  And additionally if they go the vaccination route there's actually a possibility of dropping several COVID-19 protocols on board, which for me would otherwise make the cruise a non-vacation.

 

Now that the CDC has given some decent guidance to vaccinated cruises I'm looking for US sailings, once prices settle down or maybe I can find a last minute deal I'll be booked.    My fondness for the MSC product will not outweigh the non-vacccinated CDC protocols, there is no way I'd book MSC unless they also go the vaccinated route.  Too many cruise line choices where I don't have to feel like I went back into lock down.  Otherwise I'll just take land vacations.

Currently, the itineraries being offered on MSC from Florida are limited in ports visited. The private island is being touted as two day stays.

 

I have never been a beach person or a lie out in the sun member of the Future Carcinoma Club so the island is not a big draw for me.

 

All I want at this point in a cruise is to be on a ship where I do not have to cook, serve and clean up after meals.  I have already warned my husband that even walking up to the counter in the buffet may be out for this cruise. It will be plop my butt in a comfortable chair and have the meal brought to me.

[Até]

The current MSC US itineraries were developed pre-vaccine and it shows. I suppose Meraviglia is passable but I really don't like the ship for the Caribbean. I'm holding out for some late additions by lines that are going the vaccination route, but it's probably going to be a last minute booking.  NCL Gem is probably going to be announced soon.

[optimusprime82]

56 minutes ago, Até said:

The current MSC US itineraries were developed pre-vaccine and it shows. I suppose Meraviglia is passable but I really don't like the ship for the Caribbean. I'm holding out for some late additions by lines that are going the vaccination route, but it's probably going to be a last minute booking.  NCL Gem is probably going to be announced soon.

 

Curious, what don't you like about the Meraviglia for the Caribbean? We were on her in 2019 for a NYC - Miami repositioning cruise through the Caribbean and she was fantastic. We're booked on her again this fall in the Caribbean and are very much looking forward to being aboard her. 

[marielco]

On 5/27/2021 at 4:22 AM, Até said:

If that has been their plan I really wonder if there's now enough time for MSC to do test cruises before the early July cruises from Miami.  Cruises aimed at the US market based from close foreign ports seem to be dropping fairly fast.

This may seem a stupid question but I’m wondering why MSC would need to do “test cruises” when they have been cruising continuously since last August? 

[optimusprime82]

54 minutes ago, marielco said:

This may seem a stupid question but I’m wondering why MSC would need to do “test cruises” when they have been cruising continuously since last August? 

Probably to satisfy the US officials and organizations which likely have different standards than the European nations. 

[Chrish2]

8 hours ago, Até said:

You bring up an interesting point that I've been thinking about for a few days, the cruise line's port agreements and insurers.

And you bringing that up has made me think about maritime law and possible obligations both captains and vessel owners. Breaches of some of those obligations are criminal not civil so can't be insured away. This is all out of my depth (no maritime pun intended) but underscores there are a range of pressures that might result in a policy change.

[Até]

5 hours ago, marielco said:

This may seem a stupid question but I’m wondering why MSC would need to do “test cruises” when they have been cruising continuously since last August? 

The protocols Italy required are likely different that what the CDC is requiring.  I saw a post stating MSC was trying to submit Grandiosa data to the CDC, I'm highly doubtful that will work.  The CDC is specifically requiring the test cruises on a ship by ship basis.  It's kind of like a cruise line trying to pass one ships VSP sanitation rating off to another ship just because they are in the same fleet.

[CheapieD]

On 5/29/2021 at 8:30 AM, Homosassa said:

 

"As noted in previous posts of mine, if one closely reads every word in the Florida state Executive Order and the law passed that includes verbiage about "vaccine passports," there is the wording that the restrictions do not apply when following other public health mandates from other state or government (federal) authorities. CDC (federal) mandates will supersede local restrictions. "

 

Are you referring to section 5?  As in proof of vaccine is a covid screening? Otherwise I am not seeing what you are referencing. Or is there a longer version of his EO than this? https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/EO-21-81.pdf 

I am just curious how MSC will handle this since they have a presence in Miami. 

 

[KennyFla]

On 5/29/2021 at 9:30 AM, Homosassa said:

My opinion is that MSC will need to make decisions based on the status of vaccination rates in each world market.

 

While MSC will have difficulties at this point in offering cruises with fully vaccinated passengers from European ports, the situation is different in the US.

 

Vaccinations are freely  available for ages twelve and up in the US. I have read statements that the lower age limit is expected to be dropped to six sometime at the end of the third quarter/early fourth quarter of 2021. There was also statements about two and up, but I do not remember the projected time frame (studies have been ongoing for several months at this point).

 

While there would be a problem with the international mix of passengers on board which MSC tries to provide with the package tours from various markets, there could also be a work around with a land/cruise package that includes flying in several weeks early, receiving the readily available one shot (jab) J&J vaccine, and boarding the ship two weeks later.

 

Personally, I am still waiting to learn the go/no go status of July Miami sailings.

 

There is an option of cruises starting without trial sailings if the cruise line goes with the 98% crew/95% passenger vaccination rate. No word from MSC on which option it will decide on.

 

As noted in previous posts of mine, if one closely reads every word in the Florida state Executive Order and the law passed that includes verbiage about "vaccine passports," there is the wording that the restrictions do not apply when following other public health mandates from other state or government (federal) authorities. CDC (federal) mandates will supersede local restrictions. 

 

While I would hope for a "vaccinated" cruise, the reason I booked MSC back in December is because we were impressed with the controls on out MSC Armonia cruise in March 2020 (the last sailing from Miami). We still would have no problem cruising with a mixed population on board of vaccinated and, by choice, the unwashed -err- unvaccinated.

 

From what I have read of the MSC controls in place on the Grandiosa sailings, precautions are stronger than on our Armonia cruise. 

 

Looks like a compromise has been found.  It has been said all along that this is exactly how it would play out.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=60e0e2195ed5

 

 

[neptuno]

Thanks for that article, hopefully MSC will opt in for 100% vaccinated adults.

[Geobugs]

Please allow the children to cruise. Vote No on 100% vaccinations.

[paceyswife]

13 minutes ago, neptuno said:

Thanks for that article, hopefully MSC will opt in for 100% vaccinated adults.

Fingers crossed!

[KennyFla]

Looks like there will be choices for everybody.

[Beaver1975]

33 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

Please allow the children to cruise. Vote No on 100% vaccinations.

 
...and positive antibody tests!!!

[DCGuy64]

4 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

Looks like a compromise has been found.  It has been said all along that this is exactly how it would play out.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=60e0e2195ed5

 

 

Yep, I knew DeSantis would find a way to keep the vaccine passport restriction in place while simultaneously allowing cruise lines to demand proof of vaccination. This article hints at what that might be, aka “international waters.” Very clever, I must say. 

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:05 PM, Até said:

The current MSC US itineraries were developed pre-vaccine and it shows. I suppose Meraviglia is passable but I really don't like the ship for the Caribbean. I'm holding out for some late additions by lines that are going the vaccination route, but it's probably going to be a last minute booking.  NCL Gem is probably going to be announced soon.

NOTE: Any cruise going to the Bahamas. The Bahamian government requires anyone visiting the Bahamas must first purchase the health insurance Visa from them. Starting cost is $40.00 per person before you can even step on the ship. Makes no difference if you want to stay on the ship and not get off.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

6 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

Looks like a compromise has been found.  It has been said all along that this is exactly how it would play out.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/05/30/florida-governor-ron-desantis-cruise-line-exemption-vaccine-passport-ban/?sh=60e0e2195ed5

 

 

Reading it, I do not see any changes so the cruise lines can check for vaccination proof. Still up in the air.

[Até]

3 hours ago, neptuno said:

Thanks for that article, hopefully MSC will opt in for 100% vaccinated adults.

 

3 hours ago, Geobugs said:

Please allow the children to cruise. Vote No on 100% vaccinations.

I posted that article last night in the "When will MSC start in the US" thread but it got flagged and hidden by the new Cruise Critic controversial content filter, still waiting for my post to be "approved" and released.

 

CC Poll from February, it would be interesting if they ran it again:

 

The results from Cruise Critic's latest round of reader survey are in -- and a whopping majority of our readers believe vaccines will be important to the eventual resumption of cruising.

The survey, which received nearly 3,000 responses from Cruise Critic readers, asked cruisers about different COVID-19 health precautions, as well as sentiment around the safety of cruising overall.

A wide majority of respondents -- 81 percent -- said they would cruise if vaccines were required. Only 5 percent said that a vaccine requirement would absolutely deter them from cruising.  The other 14 percent said that they were unsure.

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/ab/agents/variation-a/news/5849/