The Bottom Line (Radio 4) - The Future of Cruises

[Harry Peterson]

An interesting discussion led by Evan Davis - rather more so than most of the glossy TV programmes. 

 

Available now on BBC Sounds.

 

Released On: 17 Jun 2021

 

Available for over a year

 

For nearly 20 years, the cruise industry experienced huge growth. Then a pandemic hit. After a year of forking out for boats docked in port and devastating headlines chronicling outbreaks early on in 2020, what does this mean for the future of cruises? How are they restarting, what barriers are they facing and - most importantly - how do they convince customers that they are indeed safe? Guests Dr Jennifer Holland, Lecturer in Tourism, Suffolk Business School Ben Bouldin, Vice President, EMA, Royal Caribbean Cruises

 

 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000x0vk

 

 

 

[MX-Drew]

That made interesting listening.

[Harry Peterson]

5 minutes ago, MX-Drew said:

That made interesting listening.

It did. Optimism for the future and concern for the present. And some worrying comments from an ex crew member who won’t be returning. On the plus side, if his comments are to be believed some cruise companies may have to increase rates of pay substantially to get people back.

 

The Royal Caribbean VP was pretty evasive about that particular issue.

[Captain_Morgan]

1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

On the plus side, if his comments are to be believed some cruise companies may have to increase rates of pay substantially to get people back.

 

Sadly, the nature of the beast that is the cruise industry is that no matter how aggrieved someone feels because they think they're not paid a fair wage, there will always be someone else waiting in the wings to do that job for the money offered.  I know that sounds like a dark projection, but the same can be said about any economic opportunities whereby the source worker is coming from a developing nation and can earn substantially more working abroad than they can at home.

I recall many years ago on a cruise when we were speaking with the florist who had a lovely flower display in the atrium and he said he was a qualified dentist in the Philippines but made more money working as a florist on a cruise ship.

[MX-Drew]

I agree with Captain_Morgan. When we were last on Britannia both our waiter in the MDR and a waiter at a bar said the job had enabled then to buy a second house. So I think pay needs to be looked at relative to where a person lives. Also the gratuities add up to a substantial sub. I have a relative who worked as a steward on a cruise ship. He saved his gratuities, and with those he bought his house and paid cash. It was not a cheap house either and is in a sought after area in the south.

[Eglesbrech]

Interesting listen, thanks for posting it Harry.

 

I’m sure some companies did not cover themselves in glory when this all started but charging crew for water is beyond believe as a heartless action.

[Son of Anarchy]

2 hours ago, Eglesbrech said:

Interesting listen, thanks for posting it Harry.

 

I’m sure some companies did not cover themselves in glory when this all started but charging crew for water is beyond believe as a heartless action.

One of my SILs used to work for a large computer company in Greenock.  The one that has a railway station named after the company.  The staff had to pay for hot water to make their own tea and coffee.  They weren't even allowed to bring in their own kettles to make their own hot water.

[Windsurfboy]

I don't think there is any problem in convincing passengers to sail. its convincing governments  firstly to give the cruiselines somewhere to sail to, secondly to let enough people on the ship.

 

Millions have bags packed and waiting. 

[FamilyCruiserUK]

I dont think there will be any issues with finding crew for the ships. Pre pandemic hundreds applied for most vacancy's on the ships due ro steady wages ans big tips.  Where most cruise lines recruit from there are plenty of unemployed people living in some appalling conditions. This is even worse with rhe pandemic and global slump in jobs. 

 

As for wages and gratuities, many i have spoken too on the cruise make far more then they do in their own country, which they save and spend in said countries. I do feel for them, hard work and long hours, time away from home. Their wages may be poor compaired to Western standards but will be huge compaired to the same job in their country.

[zap99]

1 hour ago, Windsurfboy said:

I don't think there is any problem in convincing passengers to sail. its convincing governments  firstly to give the cruiselines somewhere to sail to, secondly to let enough people on the ship.

 

Millions have bags packed and waiting. 

Our bags aren't packed yet, but can be in a couple of hours. 🤣

[Captain_Morgan]

14 hours ago, FamilyCruiserUK said:

Their wages may be poor compaired to Western standards but will be huge compaired to the same job in their country.

Exactly!  When considered in context, the best way to look at it would be in saying with £1 or $1 how many pieces of candy can be had in X country relative to the other.  Yes this is an incredibly simple example, but you can't compare what someone in a 'First World' country considers good/bad wages versus what someone in a developing country considers the same as in the latter the £/$ will ultimately stretch a considerable distance/length of time.

[Harry Peterson]

4 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

Exactly!  When considered in context, the best way to look at it would be in saying with £1 or $1 how many pieces of candy can be had in X country relative to the other.  Yes this is an incredibly simple example, but you can't compare what someone in a 'First World' country considers good/bad wages versus what someone in a developing country considers the same as in the latter the £/$ will ultimately stretch a considerable distance/length of time.

Conversely, you could argue that if staff are working in the high wage economies of the western world they should be paid the rates appropriate to those countries. And indeed, if they were working within many of those countries, such as the UK, rather than just outside, they would be.

 

It would affect cruise prices, sure, and at present it’s simply a question of supply and demand, but legality and morality are two very different concepts.

 

By the same logic, we in the UK would only be paying the same sort of rates to all the staff we import, but the law protects them from exploitative employers.

[Captain_Morgan]

1 minute ago, Harry Peterson said:

Conversely, you could argue that if staff are working in the high wage economies of the western world they should be paid the rates appropriate to those countries. And indeed, if they were working within many of those countries, such as the UK, rather than just outside, they would be.

Definitely!  And just to turn the worm a little more, every person working onboard has signed a contract which clearly outlines the remuneration and expectations so if things were 'so bad' as some might believe or be led to believe, why did the person sign on the dotted line to begin with?  

There are very clear laws against changing contract T&C's after things have been signed/agreed to so I can't see any major cruise line (in this case) doing something like that, even if there is a perception of the crew being somehow underpaid/overworked. 

[MBP&O2/O]

I spent several years at sea, starting out as a cadet and leaving as Chief Officer. We had European crewed ships and we had Indian crewed ships.

Were the Indians paid less than the Europeans? Yes.

Were they paid more than they could have earned at home? 

Absolutely! 

Several stated that at home there wasn’t even a job to earn money!

The wage they got was poor in comparison to the officers, but not that different to the cadets paltry wage but it was certainly far more than the earnings of the unemployed people back at home. 

In those days, each crew member was given an allocated amount of rice per day. This was the way they wanted it because, more often than not they stashed some away and gave a lesser amount to the cook. When they left the ship the stash was taken home .... and sold on at a profit.

They were offered overtime but many frequently refused it as the extra money was not needed.

Some earned extra by offering haircuts, laundry services, etc.

Did they have to come to sea to be away from their families? 

No .... but neither did anyone else on board. It was a fact of life.

In those days there was no internet, no social media ... in fact there were no computers. The height of hi-tech was a scientific calculator!

Our cargo calculator was ‘manumatic’ and needed two people to lift it.

Competition for a place on board was fierce!

Were they ‘poor’? 

No. They were rich .... especially when they went home.

Did they receive a basic living wage? No ... it was far better.

[Heidi13]

So true. Have chatted with a number of our crew regarding their home life and while they made a fraction of the officer's salaray, they were significantly better off than most of the officers.