Mixed vaccines no longer approved

[kazu]

35 minutes ago, redpear1 said:

Well I have two cruises booked one in April (21day) and next Oct (28 day) and large Fcc from prior canceled cruises. Had Phizer first Moderna for # 2 sure hope this gets worked out

 

You are fine as they are both MRNA vaccines.  That is acceptable.

[redpear1]

Yes I believe you are correct I reread that passage and as you said I think we are good. Interesting that I read thread topic, and didn’t read link closely enough my bad. Lol

[Horizon chaser 1957]

I had one Moderna and one Pfizer. Luckily it doesn’t count as ‘mixed vaccines’ because they’re both mRNA. Whew!

[nocl]

2 hours ago, Alberta Quilter said:

Yeah, I wondered about that.  I guess I would still try; the worst that could happen is they say no. 

 

I'm really sorry this happened to you.  

Of course if they say no, since the cruise line states that mixed vaccines will not be considered as being fully vaccinated, that would most likely be considered to fall other not showing proof - no boarding, no refund.

[nocl]

2 hours ago, mathgirl314 said:

HA just updated their FAQ to say that those who get mixed vaccines (I got AZ first and moderna 2nd as recommended by Canadian gov) will not be considered fully vaccinated. No longer able to go on our Aug 7 cruise to Alaska. Disappointing as research show that mixed vaccine has better immune response than 2 AZ shots. Was so excited to be able to go on my first cruise. Princess, Carnival and NCL have all changed to the same policy.

Unfortunately, even though some countries has done this, mixing is not recognized by either the WHO or FDA as being a vaccine with EUA status.

[Alberta Quilter]

9 minutes ago, nocl said:

Of course if they say no, since the cruise line states that mixed vaccines will not be considered as being fully vaccinated, that would most likely be considered to fall other not showing proof - no boarding, no refund.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear.  I did not mean to ask HAL; I meant for the OP to ask her provincial health authority to see if she could get a third dose so that she would have two doses of the same vaccine.

[dmcfad2]

I assume the approved single dose J&J vaccine will meet the requirement.

[kazu]

39 minutes ago, nocl said:

Unfortunately, even though some countries has done this, mixing is not recognized by either the WHO or FDA as being a vaccine with EUA status.

 

My memory can be short and pardon me if I am in error, but I believe the rationale for doing this here in Canada originally came from WHO.

WHO since changed and Canada has followed suit.  I believe Canada has followed WHO all along.

 

the AZ vaccine presented it’s own issues.

 

I feel for those caught in this conundrum.  They follow the recommendations and then told, sorry.

Sheesh.  Just glad I checked what vaccine every clinic was giving and mad sure we got the same one for both.  Pfizer.

[nocl]

28 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

My memory can be short and pardon me if I am in error, but I believe the rationale for doing this here in Canada originally came from WHO.

WHO since changed and Canada has followed suit.  I believe Canada has followed WHO all along.

 

the AZ vaccine presented it’s own issues.

 

I feel for those caught in this conundrum.  They follow the recommendations and then told, sorry.

Sheesh.  Just glad I checked what vaccine every clinic was giving and mad sure we got the same one for both.  Pfizer.

Do not know if who made any statements about mixed vaccines, only that there are no mixed vaccine combinations on their emergency approved list.  They might have said that a mixed vaccine is better than no vaccine, but if so they never formally approved the combination.

[nocl]

32 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

My memory can be short and pardon me if I am in error, but I believe the rationale for doing this here in Canada originally came from WHO.

WHO since changed and Canada has followed suit.  I believe Canada has followed WHO all along.

 

the AZ vaccine presented it’s own issues.

 

I feel for those caught in this conundrum.  They follow the recommendations and then told, sorry.

Sheesh.  Just glad I checked what vaccine every clinic was giving and mad sure we got the same one for both.  Pfizer.

According to this recent article a who committee did recommend using Pfizer after AZ in June, Well after Health Canada made their decision.  But again even with their committee recommendation it has not been formally received emergency approval.  Though AZ is planning a clinical trial with the combination.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/who-warns-against-mixing-matching-covid-vaccines-2021-07-12/

[bennybear]

It seems terribly unfair to those people who followed recent Canadian government recommendations, especially after all the concerns with Astra Zeneca.    I heard recently on the news that WHO does not support individuals deciding to mix and match, but that did not apply to governments decisions to do so.   In recent research those that got an MRNA vaccine after AZ they found better immunity.  I am thinking this may be something that our government needs to go to bat for its citizens, and hopefully HAL will walk it back.  

[POA1]

8 hours ago, dmcfad2 said:

I assume the approved single dose J&J vaccine will meet the requirement.

Of course. That's a vaccine using traditional technologies. It's the mixing of the new, unproven ones that are the issue. (I know they're all Emergency Use Authorizations, in US terminology, but I assume that other countries use similar terms.)

[nocl]

1 minute ago, POA1 said:

Of course. That's a vaccine using traditional technologies. It's the mixing of the new, unproven ones that are the issue. (I know they're all Emergency Use Authorizations, in US terminology, but I assume that other countries use similar terms.)

Problem is that there have been no clinical trials conducted and the results submitted to WHO or FDA.  As a result while the vaccines have individually been approved and have received emergency approval from WHO, the combinations have not received emergency approval.

 

the CCL lines have stated that they will accept vaccines that have received emergency approval from either the FDA or WHO (potentially the EMEA) but as of yet no formal approval for the combination.

[POA1]

1 minute ago, nocl said:

Problem is that there have been no clinical trials conducted and the results submitted to WHO or FDA.  As a result while the vaccines have individually been approved and have received emergency approval from WHO, the combinations have not received emergency approval.

 

the CCL lines have stated that they will accept vaccines that have received emergency approval from either the FDA or WHO (potentially the EMEA) but as of yet no formal approval for the combination.

 

Understood. If I were a Canadian citizen, I'd be lobbying my government officials to get this approval. They (the government) must have had scientific justifications for approving the combo shots.

 

[nocl]

2 minutes ago, POA1 said:

 

Understood. If I were a Canadian citizen, I'd be lobbying my government officials to get this approval. They (the government) must have had scientific justifications for approving the combo shots.

 

More a shortage of vaccine and a sense of urgency with a bit of lab data, but no clinical trials.

[POA1]

9 minutes ago, nocl said:

Problem is that there have been no clinical trials conducted and the results submitted to WHO or FDA. 

 

But they have clinical test results, right? They probably used those to decide on what to do with their own citizens. They should submit those results.

[nocl]

1 minute ago, POA1 said:

 

But they have clinical test results, right? They probably used those to decide on what to do with their own citizens. They should submit those results.

Depends upon what you call clinical tests.  If you are saying did they actual run what would be a phase III clinical trial for the combination, the answer is no.  Have not even seen if they even did a phase I safety study on the combination.  There were some studies in humans done such as the one in Madrid that was published in May that looked at antibody levels, but that was well after some of the health departments decided to go ahead with the combinations.  I think one of the main reasons was the resistance to getting AZ second shots after the news about the blood clotting. 

 

I was surprised that they went ahead with the combinations on so little data, but I think it was mostly that each was safe so the combination should be as well.  Driven by a need to get as many fully vaccinated as possible.

[Daniel A]

13 hours ago, bennybear said:

I am thinking this may be something that our government needs to go to bat for its citizens, and hopefully HAL will walk it back.  

The Canadian Government can certainly try but it may be a bit of an uphill battle considering that Canada has banned all of HAL's ships from their ports and waters.  Canada - "But we have this data which says mixed vaccines are safe"  HAL - "But we have even more data that shows our ships will be safe..."  I would hope that HAL thoroughly researched this issue before posting that policy.

 

I don't know that it's up to HAL.  The CDC in the U.S. is permitting sailing with 95% "Fully Vaccinated Passengers and Crew"  If the CDC doesn't recognize people with the mixed doses to be "Fully Vaccinated" (they don't) then it is the CDC or the WHO the Canadian Government might want to address on this matter.

 

I feel badly for those who got the mixed vaccines, but keep in mind if you cannot sail at least you're still alive.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Daniel A

[Clarabella_Baby]

This isn’t limited to HAL and cruises. 
 

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/video?cid=sm%3Atrueanthem%3Actvcalgary%3Apost&clipId=2243136&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR28xRQLw24ozlVbbLtjcOXA7Ax9E4EmMn0rh9ZHPdB8UVYGy79g1HmWL2YThis issue isn’t limited to cruises and HAL apparently.

 

This was on our news last night. 

Edited July 16, 2021 by Clarabella_Baby

[mightycruisequeen]

Wow!  This is the first I've ever heard of "mixed vaccines".  Was that even a practice in the United States?  Weren't they insisting from the get-go, that if you got Moderna, for instance, for your first dose, you had to get Moderna for your second dose?

I'm sure it will get stickier and stickier as things progress.  With all the new variants of the virus, it's really a wonder that they're even still using vaccines that were developed for the original Alpha virus, but who am I to question big pharma?

[nocl]

21 minutes ago, mightycruisequeen said:

Wow!  This is the first I've ever heard of "mixed vaccines".  Was that even a practice in the United States?  Weren't they insisting from the get-go, that if you got Moderna, for instance, for your first dose, you had to get Moderna for your second dose?

I'm sure it will get stickier and stickier as things progress.  With all the new variants of the virus, it's really a wonder that they're even still using vaccines that were developed for the original Alpha virus, but who am I to question big pharma?

mixed vaccines was never authorized in the US. The health authorities in some other countries did make that decision, not pharma. So far the vaccines approved in the US have still been effective against the existing variants.

[mightycruisequeen]

Just now, nocl said:

. So far the vaccines approved in the US have still been effective against the existing variants.

Let's be clear: none of the vaccines in use have been "approved".  All of them are still under Emergency Use Authorization, not approval.

 

[nocl]

1 minute ago, mightycruisequeen said:

Let's be clear: none of the vaccines in use have been "approved".  All of them are still under Emergency Use Authorization, not approval.

 

Just to be clear I am using the term approved to indicate that they have received emergency use authorization. the only thing lacking from getting full approval when the EUA was granted was that the FDA wanted 6 months safety data. A hurdle that has now been met and paperwork for full approval has been submitted. When these get approved the FDA will not only have the data needed for full approval, but will also have post market data on millions of patients. Providing the most data on any vaccine in history at time of review.

[atexsix]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

Problem is that there have been no clinical trials conducted and the results submitted to WHO or FDA.  As a result while the vaccines have individually been approved and have received emergency approval from WHO, the combinations have not received emergency approval.

 

the CCL lines have stated that they will accept vaccines that have received emergency approval from either the FDA or WHO (potentially the EMEA) but as of yet no formal approval for the combination.

 

This.  At no other time in history has such a large scale experiment been done so fast, which is what it boils down to. 

 

I'm so sorry that happened to you OP.  With everything going on I'm still only 50% excited about our cruise in 7 weeks, so much can go wrong between now and then.  

[Horizon chaser 1957]

Given that AZ was never approved for emergency use in the US, and J&J is a single shot only, mixing different TYPES of vaccines has never been a possibility in the US. That kind of ban would apply to Canadian and European passengers only.
Since all the two shot vaccines there are mRNA, has anyone in the US had one Pfizer and one Moderna? If so, was that considered to be ‘mixing vaccines’? Or is that going to be another source of confusion at the gangway where one agent considers two mRNA vaccines to be the same, and the guy next to him considers them to be mixed?