Trying to make an informed decision, hard to find true data

[Javajitterz]

NCL has been less than forthcoming about conditions on their ships, their Travel Requirements by Country page hasn't been updated since December 22nd and I talked to NCL this morning and once again were told they weren't aware of changes to PR and USVI and that it's business as usual on their ships. Seriously? Are they deliberately being deceitful or are they that uninformed?

The CDC Color Status page is only reporting yellow on ships and not red because they only track ships IN US WATERS, which is why RCI is dumping their positive crew members and passengers before they hit US waters.

 

I'm traveling with first time cruisers, one of which just finished chemo and had to have a pacemaker inserted. I don't think NCL can keep us safe, we are unfortunately going to have to cancel and hope conditions get better. Even if we wore masks every time we left the cabin we could still be quarantined if we have close contact with someone else, and they can and will split couples up into separate rooms, and move you from your balcony room to a non-balcony room. I cannot imagine being cooped up inside with no fresh air and without my spouse.  This sucks. I understand that they want people to sail but to deny knowing that there's new port requirements since December 22nd and that ships are being denied port and that a lot of entertainment is being canceled on sailings feels deceitful

 

[sungirl10]

I have the same feelings as you as I am suppose to sail on the Joy this Saturday. I am going with my parents who are  not in the  best  health and we  just  cannot  risk it  for all of the reasons you listed above.   And the last thing I  want to do  is go on  a cruise where I am Quarantined and  if I am not, have no entertainment. Not the experience I would like to  pay  for.  And furthermore, there are  so many unknowns with  air travel  currently. 

[TNcruising02]

I think if anyone doesn't want to risk possibly being quarantined or getting covid, they should hold off on cruising right now.  No matter what the stats are right now, it's a possibility cruising at this time.  We have 11 family members/extended family members with covid right now.  None in our household, but it's really raging right now.  These family members didn't even get it in one place.  They are seven different groups who had no contact with each other.

Edited January 3, 2022 by TNcruising02

[ontheweb]

28 minutes ago, Javajitterz said:

NCL has been less than forthcoming about conditions on their ships, their Travel Requirements by Country page hasn't been updated since December 22nd and I talked to NCL this morning and once again were told they weren't aware of changes to PR and USVI and that it's business as usual on their ships. Seriously? Are they deliberately being deceitful or are they that uninformed?

The CDC Color Status page is only reporting yellow on ships and not red because they only track ships IN US WATERS, which is why RCI is dumping their positive crew members and passengers before they hit US waters.

 

I'm traveling with first time cruisers, one of which just finished chemo and had to have a pacemaker inserted. I don't think NCL can keep us safe, we are unfortunately going to have to cancel and hope conditions get better. Even if we wore masks every time we left the cabin we could still be quarantined if we have close contact with someone else, and they can and will split couples up into separate rooms, and move you from your balcony room to a non-balcony room. I cannot imagine being cooped up inside with no fresh air and without my spouse.  This sucks. I understand that they want people to sail but to deny knowing that there's new port requirements since December 22nd and that ships are being denied port and that a lot of entertainment is being canceled on sailings feels deceitful

 

It is hard to believe that they are not among the first to know about any restrictions that ports that are travelling to are mandating. That leads to the conclusion that they are intentionally misleading their customers.

[BermudaBound2014]

I have empathy for anyone making a decision about cruising in the coming weeks. It's hard to find true data about just about everything the last couple years. Best to all!

[WillandTam]

We just canceled our January 9th Epic cruise because of the situation with the ports and the rapidly changing situation with Omicron. DW has an underlying medical condition and we just felt more comfortable delaying our cruise until things level out a bit. We had our TA call last Thursday and we received a full FCC. I do wonder about the money paid for shore excursions, it wasn't included in the FCC so will it be refunded?

[hallux]

Someone asked similar just the other day - 

 

[hallux]

56 minutes ago, Javajitterz said:

The CDC Color Status page is only reporting yellow on ships and not red because they only track ships IN US WATERS, which is why RCI is dumping their positive crew members and passengers before they hit US waters.

As far as I'm concerned  there's some serious "cooking" of the books there if that's the case.  I believe the ship needs to report cases DAILY, even if not actually in US waters, in order to be allowed back in to port.  ANY positive test should need to be reported, even if that case gets offloaded elsewhere.  If RCI really is offloading positive-tested crew members and NOT including them on the report I wouldn't have a very good feeling about the reporting from that line.  At least it seems NCL is doing the right thing in this regard...

 

Maybe @chengkp75 has some insight on this portion?

[European_CruiseGirl]

35 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

It is hard to believe that they are not among the first to know about any restrictions that ports that are travelling to are mandating. That leads to the conclusion that they are intentionally misleading their customers.

I agree 100% on this. Our cruise is only later this winter/early spring but we mentally decided today that we do not wish to do an european cruise now: 10 days, 6 countries, some countries part of EU/Schengen, some not. Jumping from one country to another almost daily (well almost but anyway). Add to that the fact that it is a very port intensive cruise with daily 7-10h excursions required with long bus transfers wearing masks….Ok no way, doesn’t sound like a relaxing trip. We will change our cruise to spring 2023 and hope for the best. Now starting to look for a land based vacation for this year in one and one only location for 1,5-2 weeks. 
 

Having talked with my NCL PCC they seem to be completely unaware and unprepared at least here at the EU office of any covid country entry restrictions from country to another…restrictions which everyone here knows of even if not working in the travel industry. Granted it’s still 3 months and thats a long time with covid but it would be more reassuring to hear ”yes we know of the situation and this is our current plan” rather than to hear them say ”Ah nooooo there won’t be any problems, restrictions or anything that would require us to make any changes to the route or plan in advance how to handle x, y, z. Nooo haven’t heard of anything at all”. 

Edited January 3, 2022 by European_CruiseGirl

[Karaboudjan]

5 minutes ago, hallux said:

As far as I'm concerned  there's some serious "cooking" of the books there if that's the case.  I believe the ship needs to report cases DAILY, even if not actually in US waters, in order to be allowed back in to port.  ANY positive test should need to be reported, even if that case gets offloaded elsewhere.  If RCI really is offloading positive-tested crew members and NOT including them on the report I wouldn't have a very good feeling about the reporting from that line.  At least it seems NCL is doing the right thing in this regard...

 

Maybe @chengkp75 has some insight on this portion?

Since this is not NCL and it is most likely going to get the thread locked or deleted it would probably be best to leave this topic alone.  

[Karaboudjan]

Does anyone know that PR and USVI are closed to cruises?  There appears to be a Princess ship at St Thomas right now.  I am on a cruise at the end of the month that stops in USVI and BVI and have not received any notice of changes.  Do the posted policies explicitly apply as-is to cruises?  Bermuda had policies that would have prevented any cruises from stopping, but they modified them to accommodate cruise ships.  

 

[Lou33]

6 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

Since this is not NCL and it is most likely going to get the thread locked or deleted it would probably be best to leave this topic alone.  

There's no rule about mentioning other cruise lines, especially if we discuss how they compare with NCL.   This thread shouldn't get locked if it stays on topic, free of politics, and members try to be nice to each other, which isn't always typical on CC.  

 

There was a report that on Harmony of the Seas that there were hundreds of passengers and hundreds of crew positive, but the official CDC report shows only one passenger and 49 crew testing positive.  

 

Cruiselines are not counting many passengers who test positive days after the cruise, test positive at the pier, or test positive right before they leave home.  So it's really hard to know the true number of people who are affected.  

[CarolinaMamma]

5 minutes ago, Lou33 said:

 

Cruiselines are not counting many passengers who test positive days after the cruise, test positive at the pier, or test positive right before they leave home.  So it's really hard to know the true number of people who are affected.  

AND from the RCL thread, it sounds like they’re not testing everyone, even those quarantining with known positive cases. One lady was quarantined with her Covid-positive daughter, was showing symptoms, and RC didn’t test her. I’m surprised that there isn’t a requirement that when a certain threshold is reached, everyone on board gets tested before disembarking. That didn’t happen on Harminy. 
 

in contrast; when there were a lot of cases on Breakaway, I believe everyone was tested before disembarking. That may have been a requirement of New Orleans. 

[Javajitterz]

16 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

Does anyone know that PR and USVI are closed to cruises?  There appears to be a Princess ship at St Thomas right now.  I am on a cruise at the end of the month that stops in USVI and BVI and have not received any notice of changes.  Do the posted policies explicitly apply as-is to cruises?  Bermuda had policies that would have prevented any cruises from stopping, but they modified them to accommodate cruise ships.  

 

I just got off the phone with NCL, rep confirmed Puerto Rico has "closed its borders". Her exact words. 

[CarolinaMamma]

We are also undecided about our Jan 16th cruise, and I agree that it’s hard to get data. NCL customer service reps are nice people, but I often get more accurate info here on CC than I do from them. 
 

if any of us are going to cruise, we need to be okay with the risk of having to quarantine. We need to be flexible about entertainment, amenities or ports not being available. I’m still thinking it through, but leaning towards cancelling. 
 

If a member of our traveling party were immunocompromised due to chemo, that would be a no-go for me, and I wouldn’t need any more data to make the decision. Omicron is blowing up. I’ve heard experts say we won’t have data on cases for several weeks, due to a shortage of tests, false negatives on antigen tests, and a lot of cases being caught via at-home tests and not reported. Anecdotally, I know more people who have had Covid in the last two weeks than I have throughout the entire pandemic. My relatives in other states say the same. All of the people I know who have had Covid recently are vaccinated and many of them are boosted. Most cases are pretty mild, some like a flu. If you’re around people indoors without a well-fitted N95 or KN95 or KF94 mask, you’re probably going to get Covid. For most healthy people, it will be mild, but if I were immunocompromised I would not have any indoor unmasked contact with people right now. 
 

ONE PIECE OF ADVICE that I got here before my April 2020 cruise was cancelled: if you are going to cancel and get FCC, make a separate phone call first and strip out all of the “optional” things on your cruise. This would include prepaid gratuities, shore excursions, extra specialty dining and upgraded beverage packages. This way, you will have less money tied up in FCC. If you’re at all concerned about the future financial viability of NCL or whether you’ll be able to use your FCC by the end of 2022, having less money tied up in FCC is better. 

[Back to school]

9 minutes ago, CarolinaMamma said:

I’m surprised that there isn’t a requirement that when a certain threshold is reached, everyone on board gets tested before disembarking.

Not Miami!  

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Javajitterz said:

I talked to NCL this morning and once again were told they weren't aware of changes to PR and USVI and that it's business as usual on their ships.

It is business as usual, until it isn't.  USVI is not closed to cruise ships, but they are turning ships away if they report a number of cases onboard over a specified threshold.  PR is not closed to cruise ships, they only require a negative test 48 hours prior to arrival.

 

1 hour ago, Javajitterz said:

The CDC Color Status page is only reporting yellow on ships and not red because they only track ships IN US WATERS, which is why RCI is dumping their positive crew members and passengers before they hit US waters.

This is completely incorrect.  As is the case with the CDC in prior times with their VSP, and with the requirements to get the CSO for covid, if a ship wants to call at a US port, the reports are required at all times, whether the ship is in international waters or in a foreign port.  Now, ships not operating in the US, are not part of the CDC color code, but each ship calling in the US is listed on the chart, but you need to read the requirements for a red condition before you claim they are falsifying reports.  As for RCI, they are "dumping" their infected crew, not onto ships that are not reported, but onto a ship that is in "crew only" status, and as such, this is part of the CDC approved mitigation measures.

 

10 minutes ago, CarolinaMamma said:

One lady was quarantined with her Covid-positive daughter, was showing symptoms, and RC didn’t test her

Why should they test her?  They are required to report anyone who has tested positive for covid, or who show CLI (covid like illness) symptoms.  Since she was showing symptoms, they would have reported her as CLI.

 

14 minutes ago, CarolinaMamma said:

I’m surprised that there isn’t a requirement that when a certain threshold is reached, everyone on board gets tested before disembarking.

If there isn't, it is because there isn't a CDC requirement, and not a fault of the cruise lines.

 

Now, having said all that, my personal opinion is that no one who is immuno-compromised should be cruising at this time.

 

I find it very entertaining that everyone who was castigating the CDC for "excessive restrictions" last year, and claiming the cruise lines would be the best to police their policies and procedures, are now claiming that those same cruise lines are "cooking the books" to keep their businesses afloat.

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, Back to school said:

Not Miami!  

Maybe it varies by ship.  On Getaway, we had mandatory testing before we disembarked in Miami on 12/22.

[Back to school]

6 minutes ago, CarolinaMamma said:

If you’re around people indoors without a well-fitted N95 or KN95 or KF94 mask, you’re probably going to get Covid.

?

[Karaboudjan]

8 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Maybe it varies by ship.  On Getaway, we had mandatory testing before we disembarked in Miami on 12/22.

Interesting.  Given that there was no big news out of this and there does not seem to be any rush to implement this industry-wide maybe this dispels the notion that 'if they tested everyone getting off the ship half of the passengers would be positive'...

[ECCruise]

5 minutes ago, Karaboudjan said:

Interesting.  Given that there was no big news out of this and there does not seem to be any rush to implement this industry-wide maybe this dispels the notion that 'if they tested everyone getting off the ship half of the passengers would be positive'...

Not sure why there would be "big news out of this." 

We were in a 9 day bubble after leaving the EU so not surprised that all tested negative.

 

And if they tested every ship returning now, no one is saying "50% would be positive".  But there would, however, be a good many.  That is fairly obvious from data submitted to the CDC and, reports all over here.

[Karaboudjan]

16 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Not sure why there would be "big news out of this." 

We were in a 9 day bubble after leaving the EU so not surprised that all tested negative.

 

And if they tested every ship returning now, no one is saying "50% would be positive".  But there would, however, be a good many.  That is fairly obvious from data submitted to the CDC and, reports all over here.

I meant there would likely have been big news if a large number tested positive.

 

If you were coming from the EU that would probably be an entry requirement that would not apply to US home port cruises.

 

There very much have been comments to the effect that 'half of the ship would be positive' or something similarly hyperbolic.

[Javajitterz]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

It is business as usual, until it isn't.  USVI is not closed to cruise ships, but they are turning ships away if they report a number of cases onboard over a specified threshold.  PR is not closed to cruise ships, they only require a negative test 48 hours prior to arrival.

 

This is completely incorrect.  As is the case with the CDC in prior times with their VSP, and with the requirements to get the CSO for covid, if a ship wants to call at a US port, the reports are required at all times, whether the ship is in international waters or in a foreign port.  Now, ships not operating in the US, are not part of the CDC color code, but each ship calling in the US is listed on the chart, but you need to read the requirements for a red condition before you claim they are falsifying reports.  As for RCI, they are "dumping" their infected crew, not onto ships that are not reported, but onto a ship that is in "crew only" status, and as such, this is part of the CDC approved mitigation measures.

 

Why should they test her?  They are required to report anyone who has tested positive for covid, or who show CLI (covid like illness) symptoms.  Since she was showing symptoms, they would have reported her as CLI.

 

If there isn't, it is because there isn't a CDC requirement, and not a fault of the cruise lines.

 

Now, having said all that, my personal opinion is that no one who is immuno-compromised should be cruising at this time.

 

I find it very entertaining that everyone who was castigating the CDC for "excessive restrictions" last year, and claiming the cruise lines would be the best to police their policies and procedures, are now claiming that those same cruise lines are "cooking the books" to keep their businesses afloat.From the CDC website: With the exception of cruise ships operating in Florida, all cruise ships operating in U.S. waters, or seeking to operate in U.S. waters, must comply with the requirements of CDC’s Temporary Extension & Modification of Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and Technical Instructions, even when outside of U.S. waters.

 

[Javajitterz]

"With the exception of cruise ships operating in Florida, all cruise ships operating in U.S. waters, or seeking to operate in U.S. waters, must comply with the requirements of CDC’s Temporary Extension & Modification of Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and Technical Instructions, even when outside of U.S. waters."

 

All ships out of Florida are NOT bound by the CDC orders. I am cancelling.

 

 

[Javajitterz]

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/covid19-cruiseships.html

As of July 23, 2021, the CSO and accompanying measures, such as technical instructions, are nonbinding recommendations for cruise ships arriving in, located within, or departing from a port in Florida. CDC is continuing to operate the CSO as a voluntary program for such ships that choose to follow the CSO measures voluntarily.