Ontario's PCR testing change - could create future travel issues.

[flyboy88]

I was reading a CTVnews article yesterday about how Canadian's are getting stuck abroad after testing positive.  The issue further highlights how flawed Canada's travel restrictions are (in comparison to other major countries).

With the recent changes to covid testing in Ontario (and other places), and the ongoing travel restrictions I believe we are on a path to further travel issues. I personally had an amazing cruise in November and was planning one for March 2022, but am concerned I'll get a false positive test. I just spend the last week at home with covid, however ineligible to get a PCR for documentation.
 

Canada's travel restrictions are flawed, and recent changes to local PCR testing may have a lasting impact on travel.

How places like Ontario are currently handling covid testing, we are likely to see more Canadians get ‘stuck’ abroad due to positive covid tests.

The Facts:
- Peel Region’s Medical Officer and others have stated it’s likely we will all catch Omicron.
- The Government of Canada and others have stated "PCR positivity may persist or fluctuate for weeks or in some cases months, and positive results, particularly within 3 months of a previous infection, may not represent a true reinfection”
- Ontario is no longer PCR testing symptomatic people unless they fall into a high-risk group
- Paying for a PCR test via a private lab is typically only for asymptomatic people for travel purposes
- In Ontario (and maybe other places) if you do test positive for COVID and are asymptomatic, you DO NOT have to isolate. You may continue on with life as long as you monitor yourself and isolate yourself if symptoms appear.
- A vaccinated person may enter Canada without showing a negative PCR test, IF they show a positive PCR test result dated 10-180 days prior to entry.

The issue we are going to see over the next couple of months that no one seems to be talking about is all the false positive PCR tests that will keep Canadian’s stuck abroad.

Based on the facts above, there are many people in Ontario (and possibly other provinces/territories) who are at home with covid symptoms however are not being PCR tested unless they are high risk. These same people will recover and may decide to take a trip abroad over the next couple of months.

What we know based on the Government's website is that despite recovering you may test positive weeks or months afterward, hence why the government allows people to enter with a positive test result dated 10-180days prior to entry in replacement of a current negative test.

Because Ontario is not PCR testing everyone who is currently sick, they will have no record of their covid positive to use for re-entry into Canada 10-180 days from arrival. Therefore when they are abroad, they could test positive, be asymptomatic, and get stuck abroad all because the provincial government failed to test them when they were first exposed and symptomatic.

Another thing to consider is, in Ontario if you test positive, be asymptotic, and go about your life, however, if you are abroad and asymptomatic with a positive PCR you’re denied entry to the country for 10 days? Canada needs to do testing on arrival and remove pre-entry testing for Canadians. 

[Magicat]

If you have a PCR test with a positive result, you need to keep it as this can be your test results after 11 days as of tomorrow and valid for 180 days.  This will allow you to travel back to Canada.  I believe, but you should verify, that you can also use it to fly and enter other countries.  But again I suggest you check with the specific country or carrier you will be using.

[K_e_short]

I posted something similar to Twitter yesterday.

 

There is definitely a disconnect.

 

The issue is that those that want to travel will do it no matter what.

 

We are not getting sympathy from non travellers as they see us as demanding and entitled.

 

Federal rules make assumptions on ability to access testing, both prior to flying home, and for those that test positive prior to travel.

 

I think we can all agree that the science has changed, and that it's difficult to "buy in" to the rules and procedures we all want to follow, as good Canadians.

[CKCruising]

1 hour ago, flyboy88 said:

...With the recent changes to covid testing in Ontario (and other places), and the ongoing travel restrictions I believe we are on a path to further travel issues. I personally had an amazing cruise in November and was planning one for March 2022, but am concerned I'll get a false positive test. I just spend the last week at home with covid, however ineligible to get a PCR for documentation...

If you are saying you are ineligible due to the provincial limiting of tests, order one of the Switch (or similar) at-home PCR tests and get the result on paper.  You will have to pay, but at worse, it is the same as paying once for a PCR test for your March trip.

[ALD18]

For me the key point in the OP is "Peel Region’s Medical Officer and others have stated it’s likely we will all catch Omicron."  I personally have conceded it is not a matter of IF I am going to get COVID but to WHEN I'm going to get it and how bad.  I have had my 3 shots of PFizer, followed all prescribed procedures to protect myself, but that will not prevent me from getting it.  It will only assist my immune system to control how badly I get it.  So in my opinion all the testing is getting to a point where what purpose is it supposed to serve?  Is it being used on travelers to stop the spread?  No, all the variants are here.  They were forewarned and prepared when Omicron was found in South Africa and we saw what travel testing did for that.  I think they have to refocus their testing program as it currently stands to provide the service to people who are showing severe reactions to supposed infections, here in Canada.  Use the quick test to set preliminary results and if you have it or not and then move to PCR testing to be absolute certain you have it, in Canada.  Testing the individual showing no symptoms prior to travel to/from anywhere for whatever reason to stop the spread seems to be a moot point anymore.  If you show severe symptoms while abroad get yourself a N95 mask and get home asap. I would far rather see the costs associated testing abroad redirected to support the health care system hear at home AND provide the funds to the scientific, medical, and pharmaceutical companies to find a CURE or 100% PROTECTION so we do not get it at ALL.  We are still planning to go on our cruise in May for this reason.  Cruise ships and planes are an easy target to place blame, but so are our schools, shopping centers, and normal everyday personal interaction the way things currently stand.  Hopefully better times are getting closer rather than further away.    

[broberts]

The problem with the "we are all going to catch it" route is that the general public takes it to mean we can abandon mitigation protocols. Nothing is further from the truth. Without the metering effect of various mitigation protocols, our healthcare system will be overwhelmed. Without continued mitigation those with risk factors remain virtual prisoners. Without mitigation the pace of variant development will continue unabated.

 

The "we will all get it" statements remind me of early suggestions that we shouldn't bother to fight the virus. That letting nature take its course was the best way to achieve herd immunity.

[MamatoJack]

Ontario is really frustrating me right now. The lack of PCR testing, the fact that schools won't be reporting on cases, I am assuming my son will catch it when he heads back next week. As much as he needs to go back, and he is vaccinated, it is disappointing to think if he and/or I catch this, we'll have no ability to get a PCR test without paying for it, which I guess is what we'll have to do. 

 

I am having a hard time not thinking along the "we will all get it, get it over with" notion to be honest. I do understand the burden on the health care system, and we are doing our part as much as possible, but the restrictions on travel thus far have obviously not prevented any of the variants from arriving in Canada and spreading. 

 

We are vaccinated (and boostered in my case), we wear masks, wash hands, avoid going places that will be crowded, we even avoided seeing family over the holidays. We were lucky enough to go to Orlando in October, and it was really nice to be able to travel, even with the testing hoops. This new variant though, makes me wonder what's next. 

 

I hope things will ease in the spring, perhaps we'll get to a point where some of these rules go away. I moved March break cruises to May hoping things will improve by then. Fingers crossed. I just hope I don't catch anything before then, or maybe I hope I do? 

[GrannyGear]

57 minutes ago, broberts said:

The problem with the "we are all going to catch it" route is that the general public takes it to mean we can abandon mitigation protocols. Nothing is further from the truth. Without the metering effect of various mitigation protocols, our healthcare system will be overwhelmed. Without continued mitigation those with risk factors remain virtual prisoners. Without mitigation the pace of variant development will continue unabated.

 

The "we will all get it" statements remind me of early suggestions that we shouldn't bother to fight the virus. That letting nature take its course was the best way to achieve herd immunity.

The mixed messaging here is that we are in the endemic phase, yet our leaders take every opportunity to lock down travel, public gatherings, etc. In particular , travel restrictions had minimal affect in keeping Covid out, so shouldn't we learn from this? 

[CKCruising]

1 hour ago, MamatoJack said:

Ontario is really frustrating me right now. The lack of PCR testing, the fact that schools won't be reporting on cases, I am assuming my son will catch it when he heads back next week. As much as he needs to go back, and he is vaccinated, it is disappointing to think if he and/or I catch this, we'll have no ability to get a PCR test without paying for it, which I guess is what we'll have to do. 

...

We are all frustrated for many different reasons.  But my opinion on the PCR tests is they are not needed for the school kids, as long as they have access to rapid tests (which they do not at this point - 2 more coming?).  If you have symptoms or a positive rapid test, you more than likely have Omicron.  I realize a PCR test for travel saves a lot of headaches, but I don't think it is required to manage schools.  Especially when the results take 2-4 days.  At that point it is too late.

Note this is my opinion only.  I'm not addressing your frustrations which just as valid.

[MamatoJack]

34 minutes ago, CKCruising said:

We are all frustrated for many different reasons.  But my opinion on the PCR tests is they are not needed for the school kids, as long as they have access to rapid tests (which they do not at this point - 2 more coming?).  If you have symptoms or a positive rapid test, you more than likely have Omicron.  I realize a PCR test for travel saves a lot of headaches, but I don't think it is required to manage schools.  Especially when the results take 2-4 days.  At that point it is too late.

Note this is my opinion only.  I'm not addressing your frustrations which just as valid.

 

Yes, I don't really think PCR tests are required for schools necessarily, it's more the lack of any plan for notifications is someone does test positive on even a rapid test... the plan (from what I understand) is that if the school has 30% of people (students plus staff) out on any given day, parents will be notified. So there will be no notifications of close contacts within a class or cohort, no way to know if anyone has even been exposed. Just if the kid doesn't feel well, maybe do the rapid test? If you have one. The lack of reporting is what frustrates me. They are reporting on sky rocketing cases, but have no real idea how many cases there actually are because we don't test everyone any more. 

[CKCruising]

4 hours ago, MamatoJack said:

 

Yes, I don't really think PCR tests are required for schools necessarily, it's more the lack of any plan for notifications is someone does test positive on even a rapid test... the plan (from what I understand) is that if the school has 30% of people (students plus staff) out on any given day, parents will be notified. So there will be no notifications of close contacts within a class or cohort, no way to know if anyone has even been exposed. Just if the kid doesn't feel well, maybe do the rapid test? If you have one. The lack of reporting is what frustrates me. They are reporting on sky rocketing cases, but have no real idea how many cases there actually are because we don't test everyone any more. 

I've thought this through many times (probably more than the government, but that doesn't say much) and still don't have a clear idea.  The issue is that by March break, every child in every school will probably come in contact with the virus.  No doubt at least one in every class will be off with symptoms most days (I think you need to be off 5 days), so what good is knowing someone in your child's class is off?  With Omicron, you can probably assume the entire class is a close contact.

In my son's case, he had no symptoms, so without testing, I would have sent him to school without a second thought.  It worries me there will be a lot more cases like that and even more that ignore the symptoms (who doesn't have a sore throat in the winter, etc.).

The government is in a tough place because it's 50-50 whether the mental health issues due to online learning are more important than keeping the virus away from the children (and no doubt the adults as they will bring it home).  February is going to be a tough month.

[CruisinFinsUp]

20 hours ago, CKCruising said:

If you are saying you are ineligible due to the provincial limiting of tests, order one of the Switch (or similar) at-home PCR tests and get the result on paper.  You will have to pay, but at worse, it is the same as paying once for a PCR test for your March trip.

I wonder if the delivery time of this test would be quick enough to catch an already symptomatic situation. 
 

This issue is for people who have to travel for work as well as for vacationers.  
There is a lot of pent up need for work travel and conferences given all the cancellations the past 2 years.   
 

 

[bortman23]

1 hour ago, CruisinFinsUp said:

I wonder if the delivery time of this test would be quick enough to catch an already symptomatic situation. 
 

This issue is for people who have to travel for work as well as for vacationers.  
There is a lot of pent up need for work travel and conferences given all the cancellations the past 2 years.   
 

 

 

My concern is now that we've had Covid and recovered, if we order a $150 test (either via Switch or other) is it possible to test negative now (via a test we purchase) and then in a month when we travel, end up showing positive on a PCR test to return to Canada? 

 

I know it's not ideal, but Manulife offers Covid quarantine travel insurance. So in the event that you test positive on your return they will cover the cost of a hotel until you test negative. This won't work for everyone, but it's a least some piece of mind for those that can work remotely (in the event they get stuck)

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

 

My concern is now that we've had Covid and recovered, if we order a $150 test (either via Switch or other) is it possible to test negative now (via a test we purchase) and then in a month when we travel, end up showing positive on a PCR test to return to Canada? 

 

I know it's not ideal, but Manulife offers Covid quarantine travel insurance. So in the event that you test positive on your return they will cover the cost of a hotel until you test negative. This won't work for everyone, but it's a least some piece of mind for those that can work remotely (in the event they get stuck)

 

Reinfection is quite possible.

[K_e_short]

1 hour ago, bortman23 said:

 

My concern is now that we've had Covid and recovered, if we order a $150 test (either via Switch or other) is it possible to test negative now (via a test we purchase) and then in a month when we travel, end up showing positive on a PCR test to return to Canada? 

 

I know it's not ideal, but Manulife offers Covid quarantine travel insurance. So in the event that you test positive on your return they will cover the cost of a hotel until you test negative. This won't work for everyone, but it's a least some piece of mind for those that can work remotely (in the event they get stuck)

 

I'm a bit confused.. Are you thinking the positive test when you return to Canada would be from your initial Covid infection?

 

Or are you worried that you could get Covid again, and without the initial positive test have to jump through all the hoops of testing positive in the states?

 

You can order a LAMP test, from Switch Health, which is similar to a PCR test. They don't just sell antigen tests.

Edited January 15, 2022 by K_e_short

[bortman23]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

 

I'm a bit confused.. Are you thinking the positive test when you return to Canada would be from your initial Covid infection?

 

Or are you worried that you could get Covid again, and without the initial positive test have to jump through all the hoops of testing positive in the states?

 

You can order a LAMP test, from Switch Health, which is similar to a PCR test. They don't just sell antigen tests.

 

The government allows people who've tested positive on a PCR test, to use that test while traveling so they can return to Canada without having to take a PCR test. I think it's currently allowed from 14 days after infection, to 180 days. 

 

My concern is someone like me, who recently recovered from covid, but doesn't have access to a PCR test due to government restrictions.

 

So I could buy one now, which is doable. But my concern (or lack of understanding) is what if I purchase one now, take the test and it's negative. Which is great, but is there a chance I could test positive on a PCR test when returning to Canada (eg the PCR test picks up some of the genetic material the at home one missed)?

 

It really only an issue for someone (like me) who's recovered from covid, couldn't access a PCR test now, but would like to travel in the coming months.

 

Hopefully I'm explaining myself well lol

[bortman23]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Reinfection is quite possible.

 

Of course, but my hope is that things will be getting better soon and reinfection is less likely, though we all know that might not be the case...

[Magicat]

I think a note from a health care professional will also work.  Or is that for the US?

 

[bortman23]

5 minutes ago, Magicat said:

I think a note from a health care professional will also work.  Or is that for the US?

 

 

My understanding is you need that on top of a positive test to enter the USA, but only the test to return to Canada.

 

I would skip that though, as a negative antigen test is all you need to enter the USA, and those are less sensitive, so you shouldn't test positive on those unless you're actually (re) infected etc

[DirtyDawg]

3 hours ago, bortman23 said:

 

My concern is now that we've had Covid and recovered, if we order a $150 test (either via Switch or other) is it possible to test negative now (via a test we purchase) and then in a month when we travel, end up showing positive on a PCR test to return to Canada? 

 

I know it's not ideal, but Manulife offers Covid quarantine travel insurance. So in the event that you test positive on your return they will cover the cost of a hotel until you test negative. This won't work for everyone, but it's a least some piece of mind for those that can work remotely (in the event they get stuck)

We bought the Manulife Covid insurance for our recent Caribbean trip. I would double check to see if having a positive Covid test is considered a pre-existing condition and would void the insurance. Or course, if you do get an official positive test result now, would you need the insurance for additional hotel costs because you know you can back into the country after your trip. 

 

 

 

[Fouremco]

45 minutes ago, bortman23 said:

So I could buy one now, which is doable. But my concern (or lack of understanding) is what if I purchase one now, take the test and it's negative. Which is great, but is there a chance I could test positive on a PCR test when returning to Canada (eg the PCR test picks up some of the genetic material the at home one missed)?

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if you were to purchase a PCR test now, either at a pharmacy or similar testing facility, or a supervised home test kit, you will either have a positive result or you will have a negative result.

 

If it is a positive result, you will then have the documentation that will enable you under current rules to re-enter Canada on multiple occasions for the next six months without further testing. 

 

If the result of the highly sensitive PCR test is negative, it is most likely because you’ve recovered from COVID-19,  are no longer contagious, and sufficient time has elapsed for all remaining fragments of virus material to have been cleared from your nose. In this case, you would have to be tested each time that you return to Canada.

 

If you go to a testing facility, or do a home test carefully following the instructions and the direction from the proctor, it is highly unlikely that you will have a false negative result. It's even more unlikely that you could have a false negative now, and then at some later date test positive when trying to re-enter Canada. While it's theoretically possible, the odds against are so high they aren't worth considering IMO. 

[DirtyDawg]

I was tested when we returned from the Caribbean a week ago Friday. I'm 99.9% certain I will test positive as I was sick all week with Covid symptoms. Eight days + later I still do not have the results. Since I am now past any quarantine period the test results do not matter now but I want to get that official positive result for the reasons @Fouremco listed. 

 

P.S. My test must have been sent to Ottawa for processing! 😇

Edited January 15, 2022 by DirtyDawg

[CKCruising]

21 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I was tested when we returned from the Caribbean a week ago Friday. I'm 99.9% certain I will test positive as I was sick all week with Covid symptoms. Eight days + later I still do not have the results. Since I am now past any quarantine period the test results do not matter now but I want to get that official positive result for the reasons @Fouremco listed. 

 

P.S. My test must have been sent to Ottawa for processing! 😇

Since you were outside of the US, the quarantine period is at minimum until you receive the test 😉  Since you are dealing with the border, not the province, the quarantine for a positive test is 10 days (and possibly 14 for some of your travelling party)

Note our day 8 tests took 11 and 13 days (although they were submitted together).

[Fouremco]

50 minutes ago, DirtyDawg said:

I was tested when we returned from the Caribbean a week ago Friday. I'm 99.9% certain I will test positive as I was sick all week with Covid symptoms. Eight days + later I still do not have the results. Since I am now past any quarantine period the test results do not matter now but I want to get that official positive result for the reasons @Fouremco listed. 

 

P.S. My test must have been sent to Ottawa for processing! 😇

The lab personnel weren't amused by your earlier post and have "accidentally" lost your sample. 😛 

[K_e_short]

3 hours ago, bortman23 said:

 

The government allows people who've tested positive on a PCR test, to use that test while traveling so they can return to Canada without having to take a PCR test. I think it's currently allowed from 14 days after infection, to 180 days. 

 

My concern is someone like me, who recently recovered from covid, but doesn't have access to a PCR test due to government restrictions.

 

So I could buy one now, which is doable. But my concern (or lack of understanding) is what if I purchase one now, take the test and it's negative. Which is great, but is there a chance I could test positive on a PCR test when returning to Canada (eg the PCR test picks up some of the genetic material the at home one missed)?

 

It really only an issue for someone (like me) who's recovered from covid, couldn't access a PCR test now, but would like to travel in the coming months.

 

Hopefully I'm explaining myself well lol

 

Buy an at home PCR test and get results.

 

As others have said you either test positive and have proof for future trips.

 

Or test negative and don't have to worry about testing positive when you travel next.