"Up To Date" vs "Fully Vaccinated" - CDC's definitions

[mz-s]

The CDC has recently added a new vaccination status to their COVID guidelines - "Up To Date" meaning the person has taken the booster if eligible.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

 

Carnival, near as I can tell, is still paying attention to "Fully Vaccinated" - which just means you've gotten your normal dose(s) at least 14 days before sailing.

 

It's looking into the future I know, but anyone have a sense that Carnival will shift from requiring "fully vaccinated" to requiring "up to date"? And just as importantly, will ports-of-call begin requiring boosters? I hope not considering the WHO still is not recommending boosters for most people.

[weluvtravel]

Not sure about Carnival but Hawaii just changed their requirements to include the booster as well as original vaccine.  Hawaii requires proof of vaccine (including booster) or a negative Covid test.  

[BlerkOne]

Carnival follows the CDC and sometimes goes farther.

 

Most ports of call don't have adequate access to the vaccine to begin with, so I see them requiring cruisers to have maximum protection.

 

WHO's objection is based on lack of vaccine for billions, not that there is anything wrong with boosters.

[firefly333]

I think its san fran who is requiring boosters. I think princess is affected? Not carnival. 

[brilliantseas]

12 hours ago, mz-s said:

The CDC has recently added a new vaccination status to their COVID guidelines - "Up To Date" meaning the person has taken the booster if eligible.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

 

Carnival, near as I can tell, is still paying attention to "Fully Vaccinated" - which just means you've gotten your normal dose(s) at least 14 days before sailing.

 

It's looking into the future I know, but anyone have a sense that Carnival will shift from requiring "fully vaccinated" to requiring "up to date"? And just as importantly, will ports-of-call begin requiring boosters? I hope not considering the WHO still is not recommending boosters for most people.

 

If Carnival changes their definition, they cut their potential customer base in half in the United States. Unless circumstances get dramatically worse, or the CDC issues new requirements for the cruise industry, I don't think they will adopt a more restrictive policy as it relates to vaccination status. I believe they'll continue to use the "strongly recommended" language, but an actual requirement would be detrimental to their business. 

[brilliantseas]

11 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival follows the CDC and sometimes goes farther.

 

Most ports of call don't have adequate access to the vaccine to begin with, so I see them requiring cruisers to have maximum protection.

 

WHO's objection is based on lack of vaccine for billions, not that there is anything wrong with boosters.

 

Pfizer just came out and recommended against "periodic" boosters, instead recommending a once-annual booster. They are seeing declining returns in terms of the period in which the boosters offer a boost in antibodies. While the vaccine provides long term protection against severe disease and hospitalization, studies in the UK have found that the booster only offers around 50% protection against mild disease after 10 weeks, compared to 85-95% protection immediately. We'll see what Israel's data looks like on shot #4, but the protection period may be even less. 

[ninjacat123]

16 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

Pfizer just came out and recommended against "periodic" boosters, instead recommending a once-annual booster. They are seeing declining returns in terms of the period in which the boosters offer a boost in antibodies. While the vaccine provides long term protection against severe disease and hospitalization, studies in the UK have found that the booster only offers around 50% protection against mild disease after 10 weeks, compared to 85-95% protection immediately. We'll see what Israel's data looks like on shot #4, but the protection period may be even less. 

Sounds like it could eventually be an annual flu shot.  I wonder if it will be separate or combined with other strains, like the annual flu shot is now?

[mz-s]

28 minutes ago, ninjacat123 said:

Sounds like it could eventually be an annual flu shot.  I wonder if it will be separate or combined with other strains, like the annual flu shot is now?

 

I believe Moderna is working on a combined flu/covid shot that is given annually.

[Homosassa]

29 minutes ago, brilliantseas said:

 

While the vaccine provides long term protection against severe disease and hospitalization, studies in the UK have found that the booster only offers around 50% protection against mild disease after 10 weeks, compared to 85-95% protection immediately.  

Don't confuse results from the UK where the AstraZeneca vaccine is the one used vs the US where the more effective Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are in use (the J &J J vaccine is not as effective as the other two).

 

Results with Moderna and Pfizer, including the booster data, shows a longer lasting immune response.

 

[mz-s]

1 hour ago, brilliantseas said:

 

If Carnival changes their definition, they cut their potential customer base in half in the United States. Unless circumstances get dramatically worse, or the CDC issues new requirements for the cruise industry, I don't think they will adopt a more restrictive policy as it relates to vaccination status. I believe they'll continue to use the "strongly recommended" language, but an actual requirement would be detrimental to their business. 

 

My and my wife's concern is we are fully vaccinated but have no plans or desire to boost. Our November cruise is fine under the current rules, but if they change the meaning of "Fully Vaccinated" between now and then we won't meet the criteria. I do hope you're right in that they realize that there aren't enough boosted people to keep the industry afloat (pardon the pun).

[BlerkOne]

Something over 75 million Americans are boosted. That could keep the industry afloat for a while.

[jsglow]

The interesting thing is that from all I've read, jab #3 is still quite effective providing 90+ percentage protection against hospitalization/death for upwards of 10-12 weeks and then beginning to decline after that (although the secondary T cell response remains).  I've read also that subsequent jabs have a significant diminishing return, potentially to the point of neutrality. 

So while the science is absolutely clear that getting vaccinated/boosted is the right answer, there seems to be a time when natural immunity from a mild or fully asymptomatic case (T cell protected) is the way out of this mess. 

[BlerkOne]

I'll stick with the science that says the vaccine is more effective than "natural immunity." More than one person has posted they have had covid more than once.

[Colorado Beach Bum]

10 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I'll stick with the science that says the vaccine is more effective than "natural immunity." More than one person has posted they have had covid more than once.

And vaccinated have had it more than once. So in those cases neither was effective at prevention.  

[ninjacat123]

28 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

And vaccinated have had it more than once. So in those cases neither was effective at prevention.  

My understanding was that the Covid vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting Covid, but reduces the symptoms hopefully reducing the number of infected people needing hospitalization. 

[BlerkOne]

45 minutes ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

And vaccinated have had it more than once. So in those cases neither was effective at prevention.  

True, but the vaccine wasn't developed for Delta, much less Omicron. Help is on the way!

[LaRue1975]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I'll stick with the science that says the vaccine is more effective than "natural immunity." More than one person has posted they have had covid more than once.

What about the science published by the CDC last week regarding natural immunity vs the vaccine? 
 

https://kdvr.com/news/coronavirus/covid-19-vaccine/cdc-report-natural-immunity-stronger-than-vaccines-alone-during-delta-wave/

[BlerkOne]

"The study has limits — namely, it was done before the omicron wave and doesn’t factor in any information about boosters."

[LaRue1975]

1 minute ago, BlerkOne said:

"The study has limits — namely, it was done before the omicron wave and doesn’t factor in any information about boosters."

Correct and it also obvious that the vaccinated are getting Omicron in much larger numbers than Delta, including those with boosters. Stick with whatever science makes you comfortable and discount what does not, I think that is the norm for many as the pandemic winds down. I am beginning to see a light at the end of a very long tunnel but I tend to stick with an optimistic interpretation that doesn’t always materialize. I’m also optimistic boosters won’t be required, we should get the answer on that one soon. 🤞🤞🤞

[BlerkOne]

I'll stick with science science. It is premature to claim the pandemic is over, because it isn't.

[Drazil65]

The interesting thing is that from all I've read, jab #3 is still quite effective providing 90+ percentage protection against hospitalization/death for upwards of 10-12 weeks and then beginning to decline after that (although the secondary T cell response remains). 

 

The booster will get you through the winter wave (when the virus appears to be most active) until the virus once again wanes.  Yes, you can get every variant that comes out, and if unvaxed you are more likely to get each variant as the virus searches for hosts that are the least protected. 

 

Original 2 doses were good for about 8 months full strength and then begins to dilute effectiveness, if you dont want to get a booster then you just have to get through the worst of what is left out there (delta & omicron with delta being the tough one). 

 

That being said, viruses live to mutate new variants in order to survive, as long as it can find the weak links of unprotected bodies, it will keep searching and creating new variants. The vaccine does not prevent the virus, it gives a body enough protection so that the virus will not mutate in that host.  The virus hanging out (with no reason to leave the host) and latching on longer can make anybody sick.  Like it or not, this virus is in charge right now and the best we can do at this point is not be a gracious host.   

 

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Drazil65