Tipping now more important than ever

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We have been asked for such tips in Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Morocco, Portugal, Canada, AND IN THE UK. I cannot speak on this topic as it applies to the US as we always “self tour” here.

 

Add Australia, Central and South America.   

 

[wowzz]

5 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

With Drinks @ £100/day, Gratuities @ £20/day, wi-fi @ God knows what (OK, I'm never going to actually buy this) and basic excursions @ minimum of £100 per couple especially if compulsory due to covid, the add-ons are phenomenal. I'm sure there are others I've never even thought of. I wouldn't surprise me if further gratuities are expected on the drinks package and excursions.

 

For goodness sake - what cruise line are you booking with ? 

[ldubs]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

When you ask people to do something which is not common in their environment -  they will come up with a lot of arguments why they should not.  That old "when in Rome" axiom is not well understood.

 

My favorite is the "perceived pressure" excuse for not tipping.   

[wowzz]

I am not so sad that I count how many countries I have visited !

But, I have never been asked outright for a tip, even in the US !

Yes, there might be an expectation of a cash reward, but never have I felt pressurised to hand  over  money.

But, knowing that the guy in Mombasa who carries my suitcase into the hotel is paid basically nothing,  means that I will, of course, give him something !

Should the hotel pay him a minimum wage ? Am I colluding in a capitalist conspiracy to reduce wages?

I don't know, and I don't care.  The hotel porter is finding work to support his family,  and I will happily support him to do so. 

[ldubs]

11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I am not so sad that I count how many countries I have visited !

But, I have never been asked outright for a tip, even in the US !

Yes, there might be an expectation of a cash reward, but never have I felt pressurised to hand  over  money.

But, knowing that the guy in Mombasa who carries my suitcase into the hotel is paid basically nothing,  means that I will, of course, give him something !

Should the hotel pay him a minimum wage ? Am I colluding in a capitalist conspiracy to reduce wages?

I don't know, and I don't care.  The hotel porter is finding work to support his family,  and I will happily support him to do so. 

 

Kind of funny, but I can't remember that I've ever been asked for a tip in the US either.  I've certainly never had anyone stick their hand out for tip.    In fact, I've only had that happen once in all my travels and I won't even say which country because it was rude and not representative.    

 

Where it is very common for the "tips are appreciated" comments to be heard is on the large group tours with a tour guide and driver.     

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by ldubs
Oops

[ilikeanswers]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

We have been asked for such tips in Mexico, Spain, France, Italy, Greece, Turkey, Egypt, Israel, Morocco, Portugal, Canada, AND IN THE UK. I cannot speak on this topic as it applies to the US as we always “self tour” here.

 

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

And nowhere other than the USA was a tip asked for???

 

See for example post #809. And I could name other countries also.

 

There is a difference between being asked to tip and whether tipping is actually the culture. The reality is tour guides are willing to try to take advantage of naive tourists and there is a perception that cruise passengers are particularly naive travellers. If you want to know the tipping norms for tours the tour guide is generally the worst source😂. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[ilikeanswers]

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

Yes, If I was advised that tipping was common in those circumstances I would likely tip.  Why wouldn't I.  In this case the advice came from a British travel blogger.   Another case of bad info I'm sure.  

 

This is what I have been saying that you have to be careful you are not getting "tourist advice". Where tourists are told one thing thing while locals do differently. Unfortunately it is all about taking advantage of tourists and sounds like the British blogger got tourist advice. I've noticed especially on the major travel websites tourist advice has become quite pervasive😬. 

 

2 hours ago, ldubs said:

You get good service and are well taken care of.  I think we can agree that would be the case on the majority of cruises.  Why would anyone want to withhold the gratuity?  Seems the only people who might feel coerced or shamed are those who are withholding the gratuity for no good reason.  Maybe their bar bills were much higher than expected or maybe they just don't want to part with the money.  Maybe they never intended to give the gratuity.  IDK.  If poor service is received, it should be communicated.  A gratuity can certainly be adjusted and even withheld if the problem is serious enough.   I'm sorry but I don't buy the shame/coercion argument.  if it is too complicated, just do the pre-pay or auto gratuity, or whatever it is called  and be done with it.  

 

Your first question sums up my point. It is promoted as being voluntary so if it is truly voluntary there should be no shame or need to justify removing it. You are expected to pay it and not doing so is considered a social abnormality therefore the way I perceive it the voluntary concept of the payment is a deception. It gives the customer the illusion they have control but really they don't unless they are willing to accept social stigmatisation. That is why I prefer the DSC to be a mandatory fee rather than you have a choice but.... payment😂. Cruise lines obviously want you to pay it and I think making it a mandatory fee is better than emotionally manipulating passengers into paying it. You don't see as many threads complaining about fees😜. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by ilikeanswers

[donaldsc]

We are up to 837 posts.  Isn't the beaten horse dead by now?

 

DON

[KBs mum]

4 hours ago, donaldsc said:

We are up to 837 posts.  Isn't the beaten horse dead by now?

 

DON

It's not compulsory to read it if you're not interested

[Peter Lanky]

8 hours ago, wowzz said:

I am not so sad that I count how many countries I have visited !

 

Could you explain why this is sad?

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, Peter Lanky said:

Could you explain why this is sad?

Well it is a bit anoraky , isn't it ?

[Peter Lanky]

5 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Well it is a bit anoraky , isn't it ?

Maybe slightly anoraky, but hardly sad. In these modern times where some people judge their entire life on how many 'likes' they get for putting a 45° aligned photo of themselves pouting on some sort of social media, then keeping a record of the number of countries visited over a lifetime seems acceptable, and I do have a list myself, presently counting at 34. 😁

[KBs mum]

13 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Well it is a bit anoraky , isn't it ?

You think that's anoraky? You should hear KBs dad talking about aircraft! 

[KBs mum]

1 minute ago, Peter Lanky said:

Maybe slightly anoraky, but hardly sad. In these modern times where some people judge their entire life on how many 'likes' they get for putting a 45° aligned photo of themselves pouting on some sort of social media, then keeping a record of the number of countries visited over a lifetime seems acceptable, and I do have a list myself, presently counting at 34. 😁

We have a map we record our travels on, as a memento. Includes air, sea and surface. Don't care if this is considered sad by some. Everybody does something somebody else would mock. Fact of life. 

[KBs mum]

The problem with the suggested gratuities on ships is that nobody outside the hotel staff know how, or even if, they are distributed amongst the staff. 

Are they part of standard expected income? 

A nice bonus? 

Kept by the company? 

 

The answers are not easily available to the passenger, making a considered decision on whether to pay it or not impossible. Some would prefer to tip individually if it is a bonus. Most wouldn't pay it if it went to the company. Most pay it in case not doing so would result in a pay cut for staff. 

 

Makes the whole concept a bit dubious. 

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, Peter Lanky said:

The drinks package is pretty typical, though Norwegian charges £150 per couple per day

Crikey - talk about daylight robbery ! 

How on earth can they justify that when Princess offers drinks, tips (sorry!) and wifi for £30 pppd ?

It's not as if Norwegian are cheap to start with.

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Add Australia, Central and South America.   

 

Add Hungary, Austria, and the Czech Republic.

[Peter Lanky]

47 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Crikey - talk about daylight robbery ! 

How on earth can they justify that when Princess offers drinks, tips (sorry!) and wifi for £30 pppd ?

It's not as if Norwegian are cheap to start with.

I guess it's just what they feel they can get away with. For example for an excursion on St Kitts on the Azamara cruise I was due to be flying out to today, the actual excursion was ECD120 or about £33pp. The cruise was charging £87pp for which th customer was getting nothing more than a 3 mile shuttle to the railway station.

 

The Princess one looks very good c/w others. All thy need to do now is include it in the headline price. 😇

[Peter Lanky]

Just now, Peter Lanky said:

I guess it's just what they feel they can get away with. For example for an excursion on St Kitts on the Azamara cruise I was due to be flying out to today, the actual excursion was ECD120 or about £33pp. The cruise was charging £87pp for which the customer was getting nothing more extra than a 3 mile shuttle to the railway station.

 

The Princess one looks very good c/w others. All thy need to do now is include it in the headline price. 😇

 

[wowzz]

41 minutes ago, Peter Lanky said:

I guess it's just what they feel they can get away with. For example for an excursion on St Kitts on the Azamara cruise I was due to be flying out to today, the actual excursion was ECD120 or about £33pp. The cruise was charging £87pp for which th customer was getting nothing more than a 3 mile shuttle to the railway station.

 

The Princess one looks very good c/w others. All thy need to do now is include it in the headline price. 😇

Not sure why they would want to do that. If you don't drink, and don't want wifi, why pay extra?

 

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

Well it is a bit anoraky , isn't it ?

 

I have an online map that I record trips on. I just find it a good way to remember where I have been also it is interesting to see the trail I have charted around the globe and some of the stats the online map generates I think is fun. 

[ontheweb]

39 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Not sure why they would want to do that. If you don't drink, and don't want wifi, why pay extra?

 

Absolutely. We had our TA take off the free drinks from the NCL cruise we have booked for August 2023. The tips that we would have been charged for drinking the maximum amount of drinks every day would have been much more than our bill for drinks (especially since DW takes meds that say not to drink alcohol with them.) If it was just added to the fare, we would have been paying hundreds of dollars more for something we barely used.

[Peter Lanky]

19 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Absolutely. We had our TA take off the free drinks from the NCL cruise we have booked for August 2023. The tips that we would have been charged for drinking the maximum amount of drinks every day would have been much more than our bill for drinks (especially since DW takes meds that say not to drink alcohol with them.) If it was just added to the fare, we would have been paying hundreds of dollars more for something we barely used.

It was a tongue in cheek comment, hence the saintly smiley.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Peter Lanky said:

It was a tongue in cheek comment, hence the saintly smiley.

But it is truly an example of why we would have had to pay hundreds of dollars more if everything was included in the cost rather than the tipping situation.😒 (Note we do not have to pay the tips because we declined the "free" perk.)

[ldubs]

14 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

This is what I have been saying that you have to be careful you are not getting "tourist advice". Where tourists are told one thing thing while locals do differently. Unfortunately it is all about taking advantage of tourists and sounds like the British blogger got tourist advice. I've noticed especially on the major travel websites tourist advice has become quite pervasive😬. 

 

As I said, I was sure this UK Blogger's comments would called bad info.  It is very convenient to disbelieve anything that does not support one's anti-tipping fervor.  

 

 

14 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Your first question sums up my point. It is promoted as being voluntary so if it is truly voluntary there should be no shame or need to justify removing it. You are expected to pay it and not doing so is considered a social abnormality therefore the way I perceive it the voluntary concept of the payment is a deception. It gives the customer the illusion they have control but really they don't unless they are willing to accept social stigmatisation. That is why I prefer the DSC to be a mandatory fee rather than you have a choice but.... payment😂. Cruise lines obviously want you to pay it and I think making it a mandatory fee is better than emotionally manipulating passengers into paying it. You don't see as many threads complaining about fees😜. 

 

Why not answer my first question.  Why, when service was good,  would you withhold the tip?   Have you ever withheld a gratuity on a cruise ship due to a service problem?  Did someone tackle you on the gangway?  Was your photo posted on some anti-tipping wall of shame?      The worst that might happen is someone will ask why you withdrew the gratuity. That would be perfectly acceptable, except  to those who pulled the tip for no good reason.    And of course, if someone were to proudly brag to their fellow passengers about how they don't tip, then yeah, people will likely consider it a low class move.