Breakaway not docking at Roatan (again)….

[applequeen]

My big complaint about not stopping (after learning that it's been 4 weeks) is that it seems like the itinerary needs to be changed to a port that is easier to accommodate.

 

The combination of pier direction and winds (is it a seasonal weather pattern?) seems to make this an iffy stop for the Breakaway. I would love to know the percentage of times it makes it versus when it doesn't and if there is a pattern for certain months. I understand that if winds were too high to dock safely it probably wasn't safe to tender either. 

 

The ship felt really crowded on the sea days. I can't imagine what it would have been like at full capacity. 

 

Is there nowhere else we could have gone instead? When my Carnival cruise missed the Half Moon Cay stop due to wind we went to Nassau instead. Is there another option close to Roatan that could be a back up port (or replacement port for new itinerary). 

[NolaBliss]

I still don’t understand why we were not automatically credited with the port tax onboard. I have had missed ports before from NCL and was always credited onboard. Guest Service told me that I had to contact NCL after the cruise to get the credit this time and he didn’t know why it wasn’t being handled onboard. I’m still awaiting my emailed folio from 4/17 disembarkation to check if NCL makes the adjustment before sending out the folio copies.

[Steam]

Was on the Norwegian Joy this week and we made our stop in Roatan; at the pier, not tendered. Not sure why Breakaway would have a larger problem than the Joy getting into that port. 

[mjkacmom]

13 hours ago, Steam said:

Was on the Norwegian Joy this week and we made our stop in Roatan; at the pier, not tendered. Not sure why Breakaway would have a larger problem than the Joy getting into that port. 

Maybe because the weather that day was different.

[Homosassa]

I suggest all you wind/wave experts look at a map to learn about the position of Roatan.

 

Currents and tides in combination with wind speed /direction would also be a factor in the decision to dock or tender.

[chrisdar1]

26 minutes ago, Homosassa said:

I suggest all you wind/wave experts look at a map to learn about the position of Roatan.

 

Currents and tides in combination with wind speed /direction would also be a factor in the decision to dock or tender.

Yeah, well I’m not a wind/wave expert but it looks like Roatan was skipped again today if the Marine Traffic app is correct.  Looks like Breakaway is at Harvest Caye today (maybe swapping HC with Roatan…?)

 

 

[Steam]

1 hour ago, mjkacmom said:

Maybe because the weather that day was different.

Well I would  guess that was the case but the point I was trying to make is that there is no mention of the Joy missing Roatan despite travelling there every week. Is it just a coincidence that the bad weather/high wind days are when Breakaway is in port or could it be something else? :tinfoilhat:

[Flipchild32]

On 4/18/2022 at 2:30 PM, Laszlo said:

Their is no way any Captain will chance docking. If it goes sideways they can easily damage the ship along with damaging the pier. If the pier is damaged it could be closed for weeks if not months to be repaired

 

I am sure they are also being super cautious after what happened to the Escape last month and the amount of damage, refunds, etc. I will admit I don't know the class of ship is different or not, but I am sure the captain is also in contact with others on if they should or shouldn't go in.

[Laszlo]

1 hour ago, chrisdar1 said:

Yeah, well I’m not a wind/wave expert but it looks like Roatan was skipped again today if the Marine Traffic app is correct.  Looks like Breakaway is at Harvest Caye today (maybe swapping HC with Roatan…?)

 

 

8kts today

[Homosassa]

56 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

 

I find it disgusting that a bunch of keyboard commandos question a Captain's ability, when I'm sure that none of them would make decisions that could involve loss of every cent the person has, loss of profession, and the possibility of long jail time.  Those who know my posts over the years, know that I have had harsh words for Captains whose performance was questionable or criminal, but I will defend to the last a Captain's right to make this decision as to whether or not to dock, and not question his qualifications (who here has met these qualifications) or his commitment to safety.  Certainly, a bunch of "rail birds" propping themselves and their mai tai's up on the ship's handrail don't get that right.

This reminds me of a HAL cruise I was on that had ports in the western and southern Caribbean.

 

Wind, tides, currents and weather was not very cooperative during the cruise and we had already missed two ports because of conditions at the ports when it was time for our last port of call, Limon, Costa Rica (previous port of call was Cartagena which we made).

 

The armchair admirals   and dinghy captains on board had already been grumbling and starting to rumble about "demands" for the missed port when we reached Limon and the Captain announced that he would not chance the channel because of the outgoing tide and wind conditions.

 

The afore mentioned "experts" swung into high gear with their opinions and suggestions that another port be substituted on our way back to Ft Lauderdale.

 

Bless the captain and cruise director. They arranged a special meet the captain/talk in the ship's theater for that afternoon.

 

You know the blowhards were there with their complaints and demands.

 

The captain cut them off at the knees.  He had prepared a talk with charts and diagrams that were projected on the theater's large screen.

 

He included all pertinent weather, tide  current conditions, channel navigation information that led to his decision to miss the earlier ports.

 

For Limon, he included conditions at the time of his approached to the channel and the current conditions(worsening).

 

For the geographically challenged, he included a map to show how isolated Limon was from other ports in the western/southern Caribbean that could not be reached in the time remaining before being due back in Ft Lauderdale.

 

He also included a chart showing the two low system areas that were in the way of the common routes back to Ft Lauderdale  and how he was going to attempt to navigate for the smoothest ride (it was still going to be rough for a few hours).

 

When he opened the floor to questions, there was not one peep from the "experts" in the audience and many looked a little sheepish on the way out of the theater.

 

For the rest of us, his talk was a fascinating look at conditions of the huge "lake" (the Gulf Of Mexico) with its two choke points for water flow and circulation and the various currents in the Caribbean.

[bigrednole]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Are you willing to place yourself, personally, financially and criminally responsible for a billion dollars worth of equipment and thousands of lives?  Until you are, don't you dare question a Captain's abilities or decision making.

 

If he is not going to dock there, which he does have a choice to do, take it off the itineraries. The last several weeks of not docking are pretty straight forward. Even the Officers on this ship question his ability and judgement. And yes, they discussed it with passengers. Start adding up the data and you start to get to the conclusion at hand. If it was 1-week, got it. 2-weeks, maybe something is weather condition related. But 3 and soon to be more, its time to put another Captain on to prove the issue and inform passengers prior that it is unlikely this ship docks in Roatan. 

[dogg1322]

I just want to state, that I am not questioning the Captain's decision to skip the port.  Those are decisions he is paid to make.  What I am questioning is why the Breakaway appears to be the only ship to consistently miss this port and from what I can tell from what the Captain said at the Q&A I attended on the ship,  it is that the pier the Breakaway comes into is at the wrong angle for prevailing winds for a boat of her size.  Other lines, RCL in particular, appear to have invested in the port, built a pier (right next to the one the Breakaway is supposed to use) that is at a different angle and are going right into port with Oasis Class ships (much bigger than Breakaway class), while the Breakaway watches from a distance off shore (disappointing its customers and overworking it's already exhausted crew and staff who are fantastic).   The Captain himself said that RCL can dock the Allure of the Seas there b/c the pier is at a different angle than the one he has to use.

 

So if NCL is unable to find another pier to dock at on Roatan, then they should not be scheduling Roatan as a stop for the Breakaway.  It's one thing if they miss every now and then, but it appears that it is 3 out of the last 4 or 4 out of the last 5 cruises that they have missed port (anyone have hard data on that?).  IMO, it is disingenuous of NCL to have Roatan as a port if you are unable to actually port there 4 of the last 5 cruises.  Either work with Honduras to get a proper pier or don't schedule it as a stop.

[chengkp75]

11 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Even the Officers on this ship question his ability and judgement. And yes, they discussed it with passengers

By "officers", I'm assuming you mean the supervisors in the hotel department, who are in no shape or form an "officer", and have no training in handling a ship, and very, very, few know how a ship operates, nor have the responsibility day after day that the Captain has.  If it was a junior deck officer, then they also have little to no experience actually docking a ship, and none in command, with the responsibility that goes with it.  Funny that you quoted a question I posed to you about being willing to accept the responsibility for those decisions, and you deflected to others.  Do you have the cojones to do this job, or are you just a poser.  

 

3 minutes ago, dogg1322 said:

IMO, it is disingenuous of NCL to have Roatan as a port if you are unable to actually port there 4 of the last 5 cruises.  Either work with Honduras to get a proper pier or don't schedule it as a stop.

Does the Breakaway have a history at this dock?  Even if it were 5 out of 5 of the last cruises that missed, what is that percentage of total dockings done by this ship at this dock?  I don't know, so I won't question whether the dock is incorrect or not, whether this is due to a particular weather pattern this year, this month, or what.  Have other NCL ships had similar repetitive failures at this dock, whether at this time of year, or another?  Way too many questions, and way too small a data sample to form accurate decisions.

[hallux]

7 minutes ago, dogg1322 said:

Other lines, RCL in particular, appear to have invested in the port, built a pier (right next to the one the Breakaway is supposed to use)

When I was there in March there was a ship from another NCLH brand, Regent Seven Seas, tied up at that pier (looking at the pic Laszlo posted, the one where the grey box is, the empty one to the left is where the Joy tied up).  If RCI invested money in the pier, wouldn't that be JUST for them?  There are actually TWO ports on Roatan, the other is farther East.

 

9 minutes ago, dogg1322 said:

What I am questioning is why the Breakaway appears to be the only ship to consistently miss this port

I'm inclined to agree.  @chengkp75 the Joy is currently sailing to that port and there haven't been any complaints recently of that ship skipping the port.  Are the winds/seas that "bad" coincidentally always on the day the BA is due there?

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, hallux said:

I'm inclined to agree.  @chengkp75 the Joy is currently sailing to that port and there haven't been any complaints recently of that ship skipping the port.  Are the winds/seas that "bad" coincidentally always on the day the BA is due there?

Given that I'm not onboard either ship, I can't say.  I won't second guess the man on the scene.

[dogg1322]

46 minutes ago, hallux said:

When I was there in March there was a ship from another NCLH brand, Regent Seven Seas, tied up at that pier (looking at the pic Laszlo posted, the one where the grey box is, the empty one to the left is where the Joy tied up).  If RCI invested money in the pier, wouldn't that be JUST for them?  There are actually TWO ports on Roatan, the other is farther East.

 

I'm inclined to agree.  @chengkp75 the Joy is currently sailing to that port and there haven't been any complaints recently of that ship skipping the port.  Are the winds/seas that "bad" coincidentally always on the day the BA is due there?

Correct that there are two ports in Roatan.  Mahogany bay is owned by Carnival.  With regards to the Port of Roatan (where the Breakaway is supposed to dock), it is managed by Royal Caribbean (through a subsidiary JV with a private Mexican company) according to the Roatan Tourism Bureau (see link below).  Like I said originally, it appears other lines have invested in making sure their ships have piers they can dock at, NCL hasn't.

 

https://roatantourismbureau.com/port-of-roatan

 

 

[don't-use-real-name]

OK - think what you want about the situation - - -

 

Consider smashing the ship into one of the piers - trashing it for the season -

the ship sustaining disabling damage for weeks on end and having to find a

way to move a couple of thousand guests home from an airport with only

barbie jet (50 passengers) service - how would you handle that customer

relations situation ?  

 

Consider smashing the ship into the pier that was not so bad (i.e. winds at Ketchikan Alaska)

Rouge Captain making a coastal cruise by (i.e. Costa Concordia) on the extreme side

Running a ship aground (i.e. recent Escape issue - on going cruise cancellations rescheduling)

Cruising with only one azipod and it fails - not a comfortable situation (i.e. NCL STAR Australia)

 

Consider that the BREAKAWAY is 3-4 decks higher than the smaller cruise ships docking

at Roatan - a great deal more wind movement felt in trying to dock in a small space harbor.

 

Consider business decisions - first SAFETY - then make a Profit - - -

Is the BREAKAWAY to still sailing - YES -

Still making a Profit - well I hope so in spite of the lingering after effects of the covid virus !

Is NCL still in business - well at this point YES -

 

There may be amusement park rides on the large ships but command of the bridge

docking in unpredictable windy weather is not one of them !!!

 

 

 

[hallux]

25 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Consider that the BREAKAWAY is 3-4 decks higher than the smaller cruise ships docking

at Roatan - a great deal more wind movement felt in trying to dock in a small space harbor.

Except one of the recent reports was the BA skipped out on a day Oasis of the Seas tied up.  That ship is a good deal larger than BA...

[romalley99]

2 hours ago, bigrednole said:

If he is not going to dock there, which he does have a choice to do, take it off the itineraries. The last several weeks of not docking are pretty straight forward. Even the Officers on this ship question his ability and judgement. And yes, they discussed it with passengers. Start adding up the data and you start to get to the conclusion at hand. If it was 1-week, got it. 2-weeks, maybe something is weather condition related. But 3 and soon to be more, its time to put another Captain on to prove the issue and inform passengers prior that it is unlikely this ship docks in Roatan. 

 

I'd love to know the names of the officers who are "questioning his ability and judgement". Be upset all you want at your missed port, but certainly don't start throwing people under the bus for keeping YOU safe. 

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, hallux said:

Except one of the recent reports was the BA skipped out on a day Oasis of the Seas tied up.  That ship is a good deal larger than BA...

And, from what I see of the two docks there, the one the Breakaway would have used, required that they maneuver around the Oasis in very close proximity to get to the dock.  And, the satellite photo of the port on Marinetraffic, shows that the lines from the ship at the RCI dock go across to the other dock, right in front of the other ship, limiting further any "wiggle room" there.  Now, if the ship at the western dock goes in first, then it becomes easier, but again what were the weather conditions.  It looks pretty tricky to me, not sure what tugs are available there.

[don't-use-real-name]

29 minutes ago, hallux said:

Except one of the recent reports was the BA skipped out on a day Oasis of the Seas tied up.  That ship is a good deal larger than BA...

Point taken - "BUT" there are two piers at Roatan - perhaps one more desirable to tie up to than

the other resulting in the other one ONLY more suitable for a smaller ship which the Breakaway

is not.

Google Map for reference:

Look one large mega ship RCL and one smaller ship

BUT what if those two where Oasis and Breakaway class

Don't want these two bumping into each other !

 

Google Maps

Edited April 20, 2022 by don't-use-real-name

[bigrednole]

We can all have our opinions on what happened. The last month speaks for itself and this ship. Take it anyway you want, but when crew starts talking about it and officers, things start to fall in place. It just makes it clear that my money won't be going to NCL again. It is as simple as that. I am perfectly fine with that CCL and RCL have plenty of ships and obviously they have people in charge that have the ability. 

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, bigrednole said:

Take it anyway you want, but when crew starts talking about it and officers, things start to fall in place.

Yeah, all those professional mariners that you talk to on the ship.  I'll bet you've never said one word to anyone who is actually part of operating the ship, not the hotel or amusement park.  And, those crew you speak to, are agreeing with you because their income depends on pleasing you.  I'd trust getting my recommendation for an auto mechanic from the dishwasher at the local restaurant.  Tell, me, has RCI ever missed this port?  And, don't try to conflate this with Carnival, since they dock in a totally different port.

[Laszlo]

22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, from what I see of the two docks there, the one the Breakaway would have used, required that they maneuver around the Oasis in very close proximity to get to the dock.  And, the satellite photo of the port on Marinetraffic, shows that the lines from the ship at the RCI dock go across to the other dock, right in front of the other ship, limiting further any "wiggle room" there.  Now, if the ship at the western dock goes in first, then it becomes easier, but again what were the weather conditions.  It looks pretty tricky to me, not sure what tugs are available there.

Docked at Roatan three times, never saw a tug anywhere in the area. Thats not say they don't have them

Edited April 20, 2022 by Laszlo

[don't-use-real-name]

16 minutes ago, Laszlo said:

Docked at Roatan three times, never saw a tug anywhere in the area. Thats not say they don't have them

Rare for modern cruise ships to use or require tugs.

Unless really disabled or radical tidal waters.

The azipods and thrusters can move these ships to park (pier) on dime or gold double loon.