How can I contact someone at Holland America to discuss compensation for an onboard injury?

[oakridger]

Yes, I appreciate that you updated this saga, as many people start a thread with issues here on CC then disappear into cyberspace!  I'm glad you are satisfied with the outcome and your wife is doing well.

 

~Nancy

[puppycanducruise]

Thanks for the update.  Glad it is finally settled.

Enjoy your next cruise.

[kazu]

On 9/18/2022 at 12:51 PM, Copper10-8 said:

 

You're right, I wasn't there, but I can tell you that it's SOP for the SECO onboard to get contacted by medical when someone, be it a passenger or crew, reports to them with an accident resulting in an injury. The SECO will then document that accident by following the steps I outlined in the earlier post. I can guarantee you that if the "slip and fall" resulted in a fracture, which it apparently did in this case, it was documented! And there's your answer  

 

And if the medical team does not diagnose a fracture despite there being one  (think it is just a fall) do they still contact SECO?  

 

Curious as I was not contacted by security after my fall.  And I was billed for all of the medical services.

 

On 10/4/2022 at 2:46 PM, dhshultz said:

OP Update #3:

 

A minor miracle: Yesterday I received (in response to my letter faxed and emailed a week ago) a call from the HAL claims adjuster merely hours before we were to select and retain legal counsel.

 

During our conversation, she apologetically and graciously pointed out the following:

- The on-ship manager messed up by providing the business card for a claims individual who left HAL more than two years ago rather than providing the current adjuster's contact info.

- The adjuster was the one who approved removing the medical charges from our folio prior to disembarkation.

- All of the other contacts that I attempted (to the President, etc.) should have been forwarded to the adjuster but were not.

- She thought about initiating contact with us, but she refrained because she did not want to be intrusive.

 

We discussed a basis for resolving this matter. However, before we can agree on details, HAL must reimburse Medicare (yes, we are senior citizens) for all amounts it is paying because of this injury. If HAL reaches a settlement with us before Medicare is paid, HAL can be subject to a daily financial penalty.

 

So, the near-term tasks include completing and signing forms, making phone calls, and obtaining medical records. With luck, this matter will be resolved within three months - much faster, and much less acrimoniously, than if we had proceeded with litigation.

 

General HAL guest injury contact points (not all claims necessarily would go to the individual with whom we are working):

Claims@HollandAmerica.com

661-753-1595

 

 

Thank you for the email and phone number for the claims department.

 

On 10/9/2022 at 10:27 PM, ldtr said:

I expect that the cruise line would reimburse actual out of pocket expenses pretty easily.  I would also expect a good probability of being able to get other documentable losses due to the injury if it was such to create a loss of use impact, such as potentially some percentage of cruise fare for the days after the injury, missed time at work, mileage to/from Doctor appointments, etc. Things that are actual documentable impacts.  Would not expect much if they try going beyond and try and get funds for things like pain and suffering, etc.  Things that are beyond actual losses.

 

I hope you are right.  I had no assistance with mine - probably because the doctor could not read an x-ray

 

On 10/27/2022 at 8:23 AM, Mary229 said:

As a long time self insured person that is standard in the industry and sometimes a patient must take the additional steps to get a detailed billing.  Doctors do not release their notes as a rule except from doctor to doctor which might be an option - having your home physician request copies of the medical report 

 

I was given my full medical report from the hospital in Puerto Vallarta for use with my doctor or anything else.  I was not self insured, rather insured however the insurance company felt that ORIN Olecranon surgery was not urgent and could wait.  I was at the limit time wise and knew it.  Doctors  were concerned.

 

On 1/1/2023 at 1:38 PM, dhshultz said:

OP (Presumably Final) Update #8:

 

We have reached agreement with HAL.

 

We are precluded from disclosing settlement terms. However, I can state that we shortly will resume cruising with HAL, moving toward our fourth Mariner star.

 

Really glad to hear that you have reached a satisfactory agreement with HAL.  Happy Cruising and thank you for an insightful, informative and timely thread,

[regnig]

kazu

Posted 1 hour ago

"Curious as I was not contacted by security after my fall.  And I was billed for all of the medical services."

 

Jacqui I would make certain to point that fact out to HAL. Early Spring 2020 (prior Covid shutdown) I stupidly tried to take the end of my finger off closing one of the pool loungers. When I went down to medical and prior to even seeing the doctor the receptionist called the SECO down to speak with me. After explaining to him several times that HAL was not responsible for my stupidity he had me sign a form to that effect.  Since I'm certain you advised medical that you had slipped on a wet floor they were negligent in not contacting the SECO.  He/She should have spoken with you prior to you leaving medical.  You should be reimbursed for all you out of pocket expenses.

[OlsSalt]

Sorting our rights between maritime law and onboard medical services in this 2014 US Appellate court case - don't know if there have been any further appeals or revisions to this  holding. Presented for introductory information only. Further research required for the state of maritime liability  law today. 

 

https://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/files/201313067.pdf

 

Interesting, but dense reading.

[Copper10-8]

2 hours ago, kazu said:

 

And if the medical team does not diagnose a fracture despite there being one  (think it is just a fall) do they still contact SECO?  

 

Curious as I was not contacted by security after my fall.  And I was billed for all of the medical services.

 

 

.......................................

 

Any serious accident onboard a HAL ship - and I consider yours serious since you were medically disembarked as a result - is documented by the SECO and forwarded by him to risk management in SEA 

[OlsSalt]

14 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Any serious accident onboard a HAL ship - and I consider yours serious since you were medically disembarked as a result - is documented by the SECO and forwarded by him to risk management in SEA 

See above linked case, the nature of the injury itself may not be determined by the act of medical evacuation alone.

 

But perhaps the evacuation was  due to this prior  linked Franza case ruling, that now voids the prior maritime liability for medical care  exemption cruise ships under former maritime law. It appears this newer ruling  now encourages ships to disembark cases sooner, rather than wait and see later. 

 

Are cruise ships now erring on the side of caution in disembarking passengers much faster than in the past?  Law of unintended consequences. The linked Franza case included an interesting reference to a HAL case, where they "should" have electronically transmitted onboard X-rays to a stateside diagnostic center for further confirmation.

 

So in this fact pattern, did the ship err disembarking sooner in order for the treated patient to obtain further diagnostics,  rather than keeping someone onboard when there were questionable findings? Did they err not transmitting the X-rays for more technical expertise before disembarking the patient?

 

I once missed a curb in Singapore before we embarked on a HAL cruise and badly injured the hand I fell on. This put me put me in a sling before starting this long HAL cruise. Body parts were working, even though badly bruised and swollen. Retired MD husband and I agreed no further investigation was needed, just time and ibuprofen!

 

However, every time I ran into an officer who saw my sling, they asked if this happened on board and were obviously relieved when I told them no, it was just my own pre-cruise clumsiness. 

[kazu]

42 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Any serious accident onboard a HAL ship - and I consider yours serious since you were medically disembarked as a result - is documented by the SECO and forwarded by him to risk management in SEA 

 

Thanks.  I was disembarked 2 days later - not the date of the incident which is why i wondered. 

[Copper10-8]

5 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Thanks.  I was disembarked 2 days later - not the date of the incident which is why i wondered. 

 

You are welcome! 

[Hlitner]

On 10/4/2022 at 12:46 PM, dhshultz said:

OP Update #3:

 

A minor miracle: Yesterday I received (in response to my letter faxed and emailed a week ago) a call from the HAL claims adjuster merely hours before we were to select and retain legal counsel.

 

During our conversation, she apologetically and graciously pointed out the following:

- The on-ship manager messed up by providing the business card for a claims individual who left HAL more than two years ago rather than providing the current adjuster's contact info.

- The adjuster was the one who approved removing the medical charges from our folio prior to disembarkation.

- All of the other contacts that I attempted (to the President, etc.) should have been forwarded to the adjuster but were not.

- She thought about initiating contact with us, but she refrained because she did not want to be intrusive.

 

We discussed a basis for resolving this matter. However, before we can agree on details, HAL must reimburse Medicare (yes, we are senior citizens) for all amounts it is paying because of this injury. If HAL reaches a settlement with us before Medicare is paid, HAL can be subject to a daily financial penalty.

 

So, the near-term tasks include completing and signing forms, making phone calls, and obtaining medical records. With luck, this matter will be resolved within three months - much faster, and much less acrimoniously, than if we had proceeded with litigation.

 

General HAL guest injury contact points (not all claims necessarily would go to the individual with whom we are working):

Claims@HollandAmerica.com

661-753-1595

 

As one who worked in government medical insurance for over 30 years, we salute your thought about reimbursing Medicare.  Good luck with that effort which will likely fail due to Medicare's disinterest in dealing with a complex issue (for them).  The reality is that Medicare fiscal intermediaries and Advantage Plans will usually have no interest in recovering a payment.

 

Please come back here and post the ultimate resolution.  But it is great news that you got a positive response from the Adjuster.

 

Hank

[cccole]

Would like to know if your settlement came after the repayment to Medicare.  I don't need details but assume that your settlement with HAl was after the repayment to Medicare as you had previously posted.  Thank you so much for posting which is helping others.  I wish you many years of happy cruising, Cherie 

[PasadenaDave]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As one who worked in government medical insurance for over 30 years, we salute your thought about reimbursing Medicare.  Good luck with that effort which will likely fail due to Medicare's disinterest in dealing with a complex issue (for them).  The reality is that Medicare fiscal intermediaries and Advantage Plans will usually have no interest in recovering a payment.

 

Please come back here and post the ultimate resolution.  But it is great news that you got a positive response from the Adjuster.

 

Hank

Actually a tortfeasor who fails to consider Medicares interest in a claim can later be called on to pay the lien in effect paying it twice