How can I contact someone at Holland America to discuss compensation for an onboard injury?

[Guest ldtr]

19 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

The security officer (SECO) onboard Oosterdam will have documented the accident involving your spouse (all the best to her for a speedy recovery), more than likely with photographs of the accident scene. This documentation with pics will have been endorsed in the appropriate signature blocks on said report by the captain, staff captain, hotel general manager, and senior (passenger) physician, and then would have been sent straight to HAL's risk management division in Seattle via electronic mail (after having been scanned by the SECO). Medical onboard Oosterdam will have prepared their own documentation, incl. the form you (or your spouse) prepared on her initial visit to medical.

 

Accident reports are classified as controlled documents. Like other posters have already stated, if you (the OP) start off with using the terms "HAL's negligence" in your future contacts with HAL, the matter will surely, and I'm not calling you Shirley, wind up in the legal dept. in the emerald city

 

 

Is there any way for one to directly to Risk Management and bypass the customer service layers that would not have access to the information or be involved in any decision making process?

[Copper10-8]

7 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Is there any way for one to directly to Risk Management and bypass the customer service layers that would not have access to the information or be involved in any decision making process?

 

Are you asking if it's possible to directly contact Risk Management? I believe you might have left a word out but I am not the sharpest pencil in the box 😉 

[Guest ldtr]

8 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Are you asking if it's possible to directly contact Risk Management? I believe you might have left a word out but I am not the sharpest pencil in the box 😉 

Yes that is exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily typing. 🤪

[Copper10-8]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

Yes that is exactly what I was thinking, not necessarily typing. 🤪

 

Ha! One can certainly ask to be connected to Risk Management but I don't have the # so one would have to begin at ground zero by dialing one of the regular 1-800 numbers  

[colin v]

Out of curiosity - what would one expect to receive as compensation? 

[rkacruiser]

16 hours ago, dhshultz said:

Thank you, all, for the recommendations. This weekend my wife and I will decide how to proceed.

 

We would appreciate knowing what you decide, if you would not mind doing so.  

[Homosassa]

21 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

The security officer (SECO) onboard Oosterdam will have documented the accident involving your spouse (all the best to her for a speedy recovery), more than likely with photographs of the accident scene. This documentation with pics will have been endorsed in the appropriate signature blocks on said report by the captain, staff captain, hotel general manager, and senior (passenger) physician, and then would have been sent straight to HAL's risk management division in Seattle via electronic mail (after having been scanned by the SECO). Medical onboard Oosterdam will have prepared their own documentation, incl. the form you (or your spouse) prepared on her initial visit to medical.

 

Accident reports are classified as controlled documents. Like other posters have already stated, if you (the OP) start off with using the terms "HAL's negligence" in your future contacts with HAL, the matter will surely, and I'm not calling you Shirley, wind up in the legal dept. in the emerald city

 

 

You are assuming that the slip and fall was documented on board ship by security and medical staff.

 

I asked that question several pages ago and never received an answer.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

You are assuming that the slip and fall was documented on board ship by security and medical staff.

 

I asked that question several pages ago and never received an answer.

 

You're right, I wasn't there, but I can tell you that it's SOP for the SECO onboard to get contacted by medical when someone, be it a passenger or crew, reports to them with an accident resulting in an injury. The SECO will then document that accident by following the steps I outlined in the earlier post. I can guarantee you that if the "slip and fall" resulted in a fracture, which it apparently did in this case, it was documented! And there's your answer  

[Homosassa]

3 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

You're right, I wasn't there, but I can tell you that it's SOP for the SECO onboard to get contacted by medical when someone, be it a passenger or crew, reports to them with an accident resulting in an injury. The SECO will then document that accident by following the steps I outlined in the earlier post. I can guarantee you that if the "slip and fall" resulted in a fracture, which it apparently did in this case, it was documented! And there's your answer  

The one thing I learned in my job when dealing with complaints made to the Food and Drug Administration  was never to take at face value when a complaint was made.

 

While many were valid, there were many that were not and just made to bolster a law suit or to just cause problems for someone (get even).

 

Hopefully, all the procedures you outlined were followed and there is documentation available.

 

Or is it a case of someone that had a hairline fracture, thought it was just a sprain,  didn't follow up on board, and now see the potential of a cash cow. 

 

And there's your answer....

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

............................. 

 

And there's your answer....

 

Assumes facts not in evidence Your Honor! There was no query made from this side! 🧐

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Homosassa said:

The one thing I learned in my job when dealing with complaints made to the Food and Drug Administration  was never to take at face value when a complaint was made.

 

While many were valid, there were many that were not and just made to bolster a law suit or to just cause problems for someone (get even).

 

Hopefully, all the procedures you outlined were followed and there is documentation available.

 

Or is it a case of someone that had a hairline fracture, thought it was just a sprain,  didn't follow up on board, and now see the potential of a cash cow. 

 

And there's your answer....

The OP did say that they had been provided with a contact number by a manager on board (just that it was nolonger working) so they certainly discussed and reported it to someone on board.

[Mary229]

The OP said they would sit down this weekend and decide how to proceed.   Maybe they will keep us updated 

[Midwestern Cruiser]

@dhshultz Surprisingly enough, I've emailed Gus Antorcha and gotten a reply (though it probably took about two weeks).  Might be worth a try.

gus@hollandamerica.com

[donaldsc]

Are you looking for coverage for medical expenses or coverage for negligence and pain and suffering.  If the former it should be asked whether the expenses were high and why you did not have insurance.  If the latter it seems as if recovery for pain and suffering will be a lot more difficult because the lawyers will be involved.

 

DON

[rkacruiser]

8 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

but I can tell you that it's SOP for the SECO onboard to get contacted by medical when someone, be it a passenger or crew, reports to them with an accident resulting in an injury.

 

Indeed.  That was my experience on the Eurodam.  I had a bottle of wine in my stateroom one evening when I was trying to remove the cork.  The cork "didn't want to be removed."  Somehow, the neck of the bottle broke and my thumb was badly cut, bleeding profusely.  Knowing that I couldn't control the bleeding, I made a late night emergency visit to the Medical Center for help.  

 

A day after that, I had a visit from the Security Chief Officer who wanted to know what happened.  He wanted to see the bottle, but, since this happened after my Cabin Steward had cleaned my stateroom and and discarded the bottle in the waste basket, I could not show it to him.  But, the Cabin Steward had left a replacement bottle and he did take a photo of it to include it in his report to Seattle.  He thought my bottle might have been defective and, if so, there might be others floating around in the fleet.  

[Copper10-8]

56 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Indeed.  That was my experience on the Eurodam.  I had a bottle of wine in my stateroom one evening when I was trying to remove the cork.  The cork "didn't want to be removed."  Somehow, the neck of the bottle broke and my thumb was badly cut, bleeding profusely.  Knowing that I couldn't control the bleeding, I made a late night emergency visit to the Medical Center for help.  

 

A day after that, I had a visit from the Security Chief Officer who wanted to know what happened.  He wanted to see the bottle, but, since this happened after my Cabin Steward had cleaned my stateroom and and discarded the bottle in the waste basket, I could not show it to him.  But, the Cabin Steward had left a replacement bottle and he did take a photo of it to include it in his report to Seattle.  He thought my bottle might have been defective and, if so, there might be others floating around in the fleet.  

 

Yep, that's how it's supposed to work! The security officer is the one taking the accident reports and conducting an investigation as to the circumstances of the accident for the purposes of finding out if a similar accident can be avoided in the future

 

Just a piece of friendly advise; if you/anyone injures themselves on a HAL ship resulting in profusive bleeding like in your case, the best advice I can give is to call 911, stay in your cabin, and apply pressure on the wound with a towel. The 911 calls go straight to the bridge and the OOW (officer of the watch) will immediately cause the on-call nurse to respond to your cabin. For far more serious incidents such as heart attacks, strokes, etc., the OOW will use the ship's P/A system to make a "medical response" call, followed by the exact location on the ship this is taking place at(People might remember this announcement as the former "Brightstar" calls) which will cause an entire team of 1st responders to come running to the location of the medical emergency. Those responders train on this on a regular basis. Better safe than sorry!

 

The actual medical center is "manned" during certain hours of the day which does not include night-time hours - the times are in the daily program. The medical center is not really an ER like you'll find at hospitals on land and which are open 24/7. Not sure what your experience was when you arrived at Eurodam's medical center (was it open/did you have to wait?), but one could find it closed after hours which can cause a delay in getting assistance. On the two smaller dam ships - Zaandam and Volendam, at least one of the nurses has a cabin off a corridor adjoining the medical center, but that doesn't mean he/she is in there after hours - could be at dinner, etc. However, the nurses take turns being the "on-call" nurse for 24 hrs. and will carry an orange colored trauma backpack with them wherever they go on the ship during that 24-hr time period. They sleep with that trauma backpack and have actually given it a name (which escapes me at the moment).

 

So, calling 911 for serious medical issues, incl. a "profuse bleeder" will get you immediate assistance from that same on-call nurse. It the bleeder requires suturing, the on-call nurse will get one of the two docs involved      

[rkacruiser]

20 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Yep, that's how it's supposed to work! The security officer is the one taking the accident reports and conducting an investigation as to the circumstances of the accident for the purposes of finding out if a similar accident can be avoided in the future

 

Just a piece of friendly advise; if you/anyone injures themselves on a HAL ship resulting in profusive bleeding like in your case, the best advice I can give is to call 911, stay in your cabin, and apply pressure on the wound with a towel. The 911 calls go straight to the bridge and the OOW (officer of the watch) will immediately cause the on-call nurse to respond to your cabin. For far more serious incidents such as heart attacks, strokes, etc., the OOW will use the ship's P/A system to make a "medical response" call, followed by the exact location on the ship this is taking place at(People might remember this announcement as the former "Brightstar" calls) which will cause an entire team of 1st responders to come running to the location of the medical emergency. Those responders train on this on a regular basis. Better safe than sorry!

 

The actual medical center is "manned" during certain hours of the day which does not include night-time hours - the times are in the daily program. The medical center is not really an ER like you'll find at hospitals on land and which are open 24/7. Not sure what your experience was when you arrived at Eurodam's medical center (was it open/did you have to wait?), but one could find it closed after hours which can cause a delay in getting assistance. On the two smaller dam ships - Zaandam and Volendam, at least one of the nurses has a cabin off a corridor adjoining the medical center, but that doesn't mean he/she is in there after hours - could be at dinner, etc. However, the nurses take turns being the "on-call" nurse for 24 hrs. and will carry an orange colored trauma backpack with them wherever they go on the ship during that 24-hr time period. They sleep with that trauma backpack and have actually given it a name (which escapes me at the moment).

 

So, calling 911 for serious medical issues, incl. a "profuse bleeder" will get you immediate assistance from that same on-call nurse. It the bleeder requires suturing, the on-call nurse will get one of the two docs involved      

 

That is what I should have done.  I wrapped the thumb in a towel and made my way to the Medical Center not thinking it would be closed at 11:00 P. M.  A crew member was walking by when I arrived, saw my condition, and made a call--to the Bridge?--I don't know--and a nurse arrived promptly.  When one has such a sudden injury, "panic" and "what to do" is a normal reaction, I think.  

 

Quite correct that the Security Officer wanted to see the same type bottle of wine so that it might be determined if it could be prone for more such accidents as mine in the future.  

 

 

[PasadenaDave]

Maritime Law is unique from jurisdictions on land.  You might have an uphill battle especially that the evidence was tossed.  I can envision their defense being, if you had difficulty opening the bottle you could have called your room attendant.

 

I'm not blaming you or anyone else, only pointing out the challenge you face.  I likely would have been as persistent in attempting to open the bottle.

 

 

[*Miss G*]

5 hours ago, PasadenaDave said:

Maritime Law is unique from jurisdictions on land.  You might have an uphill battle especially that the evidence was tossed.  I can envision their defense being, if you had difficulty opening the bottle you could have called your room attendant.

 

I'm not blaming you or anyone else, only pointing out the challenge you face.  I likely would have been as persistent in attempting to open the bottle.

 

 

 

@rkacruiser was just relating a story.  Check the first post.  They’re the ones who are looking into compensation.

[KroozNut]

33 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

@rkacruiser was just relating a story.  Check the first post.  They’re the ones who are looking into compensation.

But I'm still confused as to what compensation..

 

[rkacruiser]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:22 PM, PasadenaDave said:

I likely would have been as persistent in attempting to open the bottle.

 

I admit this attempt was not one of the best decisions that I have ever made.  But, surely didn't expect the result of that decision.

 

On 9/20/2022 at 5:43 PM, *Miss G* said:

 

@rkacruiser was just relating a story.  Check the first post.  They’re the ones who are looking into compensation.

 

The only compensation in which I wanted was a payment of my medical claim from my travel insurance.  My accident was in no way the fault of HAL.  

[dhshultz]

OP update:

 

I sent a letter, by FedEx and email, to HAL’s President. No reply. (Responding to a query in this thread, the injury was documented by Security and the Medical Center on the ship.)

 

An acquaintance, who used to practice maritime law, recently told us that in situations such as ours, cruise lines do not respond to passenger queries – they respond only to communications from lawyers.

 

Accordingly, this weekend my wife and I will select a suitably experienced law firm to represent us (there are quite a few to choose from). We would have preferred to avoid litigation (and I so stated in my letter to HAL’s President), but HAL has forced us to move in this direction.

 

Some participants in this thread have asked which type of compensation we are seeking. At this time, I consider it to be in our best interests not to disclose that information (sorry).

[*Miss G*]

42 minutes ago, dhshultz said:

We would have preferred to avoid litigation (and I so stated in my letter to HAL’s President)

 

I can tell you that any letter sent to my employer containing those words would be immediately forwarded to the legal department.  You, in effect, prevented the President’s office from responding.

[dhshultz]

OP Update #2:

 

Having spoken with three maritime litigators at this point, we have obtained the following insights concerning why HAL has not responded to us concerning my wife's injury:

 

First, HAL is backlogged. Every cruise, on every ship, has multiple personal injury claims. HAL still is dealing with COVID-related claims from earlier in the pandemic! Plus, HAL has not had its own Guest Injury Claims individual for about one year. Such claims now are processed by an individual in the Princess offices in SoCal. Typical claim turnaround time now is approximately one year.

 

Second, HAL's Cruise Contract (see Section 17(A)(i)) requires that HAL be notified of the injury within six months and that suit be filed within one year. Most guests are not aware of these limitations. Accordingly, HAL has a perverse (to the guest) incentive to sit back and do nothing. 90+% of guests fail to comply with these time limits, thus HAL's liability with respect to their claims disappears.

 

We have tried reaching out to two more individuals (Mariner Society agent, who said he would email the claims supervisor, and the claims individual in SoCal). If we do not hear back from anyone by this Friday, we will retain litigation counsel.

 

[Mary229]

3 hours ago, dhshultz said:

OP Update #2:

 

Having spoken with three maritime litigators at this point, we have obtained the following insights concerning why HAL has not responded to us concerning my wife's injury:

 

First, HAL is backlogged. Every cruise, on every ship, has multiple personal injury claims. HAL still is dealing with COVID-related claims from earlier in the pandemic! Plus, HAL has not had its own Guest Injury Claims individual for about one year. Such claims now are processed by an individual in the Princess offices in SoCal. Typical claim turnaround time now is approximately one year.

 

Second, HAL's Cruise Contract (see Section 17(A)(i)) requires that HAL be notified of the injury within six months and that suit be filed within one year. Most guests are not aware of these limitations. Accordingly, HAL has a perverse (to the guest) incentive to sit back and do nothing. 90+% of guests fail to comply with these time limits, thus HAL's liability with respect to their claims disappears.

 

We have tried reaching out to two more individuals (Mariner Society agent, who said he would email the claims supervisor, and the claims individual in SoCal). If we do not hear back from anyone by this Friday, we will retain litigation counsel.

 

Thanks for the update.