Cancel for any reason credit feature - NY State Residents

[Travelling2Some]

I will cross post this to the insurance forum but, since it is specific to NCL, I am also asking here.  The paperwork I have clearly states that residents of NY can purchase this feature without buying the Booksafe insurance plan sold by Aon through NCL.  They give a phone number to "get the details" which just connects you to Aon.  We have called that number several times this morning in hopes of getting someone knowledgeable.  Nobody knows what we are referring to.  It is also stated that this feature is provided by Norwegian and is "not an insurance benefit" which makes sense but why give a number for the insurance company then?  Of course, the NCL call center is completely clueless too.  I suspect they don't want us to be able to figure out how to purchase this feature separately even though we are supposed to be able to.  We already have third party medical only insurance so not interested in buying the whole Booksafe policy, just the cancel for any reason credit feature.  Have any of our fellow New Yorkers been able to figure out how to buy this? 

[hallux]

Do you have a link or a screenshot for this?  I don't see it listed on the NCL travel protection section of their site.

 

My thinking, off the cuff, is that maybe the protection is normally sold by NCL and covered by Nationwide.  Nationwide is no longer allowed to sell travel protection in New York.  For that reason, the CFAR coverage may need to be purchased separately and this is why they're sending you in a different direction.

[Travelling2Some]

9 hours ago, hallux said:

Do you have a link or a screenshot for this?  I don't see it listed on the NCL travel protection section of their site.

 

My thinking, off the cuff, is that maybe the protection is normally sold by NCL and covered by Nationwide.  Nationwide is no longer allowed to sell travel protection in New York.  For that reason, the CFAR coverage may need to be purchased separately and this is why they're sending you in a different direction.

Thank you for this very informative and interesting information.  No link as the information does not appear anywhere on NCL's website.  I know this is unusual but I have no idea how to do screenshots without consulting my children, lol.   I was only able to read about the NY option after I had already purchased the insurance and printed out the policy - a bit deceptive???  Since I have several upcoming cruises and am now better informed I would like to buy this feature separately (as advertised)  for my other cruises.  I already have third party medical/evacuation insurance for future cruises through a third party insurer but we have a large family and life happens so I would find it worthwhile to purchase (if reasonable) this extra insurance.  New York seems to have very annoying insurance regulations.  I was unable to purchase an annual policy and they do not allow Cancel For Any Reason travel insurance to be sold.   NCL is advertising that NYS residents may purchase this cancellation insurance apart from taking the Booksafe policy so I would love to hear from any others who have actually managed to figure out how to do it?

[BirdTravels]

11 hours ago, Travelling2Some said:

I will cross post this to the insurance forum but, since it is specific to NCL, I am also asking here.  The paperwork I have clearly states that residents of NY can purchase this feature without buying the Booksafe insurance plan sold by Aon through NCL.  They give a phone number to "get the details" which just connects you to Aon.  We have called that number several times this morning in hopes of getting someone knowledgeable.  Nobody knows what we are referring to.  It is also stated that this feature is provided by Norwegian and is "not an insurance benefit" which makes sense but why give a number for the insurance company then?  Of course, the NCL call center is completely clueless too.  I suspect they don't want us to be able to figure out how to purchase this feature separately even though we are supposed to be able to.  We already have third party medical only insurance so not interested in buying the whole Booksafe policy, just the cancel for any reason credit feature.  Have any of our fellow New Yorkers been able to figure out how to buy this? 

You can get Booksafe policies prior to purchase by following the links on https://www.ncl.com/freestyle-cruise/booksafe (standard or platinum). 

 

I think that the footnote says that you can purchase any insurance policy from Aon. And if denied, you can request the FCC from NCL. 

[shof515]

17 hours ago, hallux said:

My thinking, off the cuff, is that maybe the protection is normally sold by NCL and covered by Nationwide.  Nationwide is no longer allowed to sell travel protection in New York.  For that reason, the CFAR coverage may need to be purchased separately and this is why they're sending you in a different direction.

interesting, that explains why i cant find nationwide cruise travel insurance policy's anymore on the various travel insurance website. i like nationwide back in the day

[ontheweb]

If you have a TA, does he or she know anything on the subject? The reason I say this is we booked a cruise in 2020 that of course never sailed. (We actually cancelled it before Princess did.) We had a refundable deposit and paid for insurance. Our TA mentioned that for NY residents even the insurance was refundable if we cancelled.

 

When we cancelled and got back our insurance, even the guy (I forget his name from InsureMyTrip) did not know about this ruling from the NY State Insurance Commision). I wondered if any other state did this, and he said he would try to find out. He later posted that none of the states insurance commisions would really answer him. I late by e-mail asked my TA, and he said this only applied to NY state.

 

So, really there is nothing to buy. NY has ruled that if you cancel, there was really nothing at risk, so they have insured nothing and must refund the insurance.

[davencl]

My take on this subject.  It appears NCL is providing the cancel for any reason insurance by themselves separate from the AON insurance.    NY may have ruled that NCL is not authorized to provide this insurance as they are likely not authorized to sell insurance in NY.   All speculation on my part just a thought.

[GeezerCouple]

24 minutes ago, davencl said:

My take on this subject.  It appears NCL is providing the cancel for any reason insurance by themselves separate from the AON insurance.    NY may have ruled that NCL is not authorized to provide this insurance as they are likely not authorized to sell insurance in NY.   All speculation on my part just a thought.

 

I thought that CFAR insurance couldn't be sold in NY state.

However, there are times that some "coverages", especially cruise line "coverage" is not actually "insurance".  Instead, it's some form of "guaranteed refund" or "trip guarantee", but without using the actual word "insurance".  Does that fit the "coverage?

 

Perhaps it's because it's a known number, so more like a guarantee or warranty, than "insurance", which has an "unknown in advance" actual payment.

If it works the same way, then that's not really a problem anyway.

 

GC

[BirdTravels]

31 minutes ago, davencl said:

My take on this subject.  It appears NCL is providing the cancel for any reason insurance by themselves separate from the AON insurance.    NY may have ruled that NCL is not authorized to provide this insurance as they are likely not authorized to sell insurance in NY.   All speculation on my part just a thought.

NCL does not provide any insurance. They offer to give you a 75% credit if you buy Aon insurance through them and Aon denies your insurance claim. 

[davencl]

3 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

NCL does not provide any insurance. They offer to give you a 75% credit if you buy Aon insurance through them and Aon denies your insurance claim. 

Yes agreed.  I just wondered if NY didn't interpret this as selling insurance.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'

[GeezerCouple]

3 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

NCL does not provide any insurance. They offer to give you a 75% credit if you buy Aon insurance through them and Aon denies your insurance claim. 

 

Thanks.

I guess "credit" or "refund" type of "coverage" satisfies the "not CFAR insurance".

Thanks!

 

I wonder why NY doesn't allow true CFAR insurance.  Were there some sorts of abuses or something in the past?

 

GC

[Travelling2Some]

Just now, GeezerCouple said:

 

Thanks.

I guess "credit" or "refund" type of "coverage" satisfies the "not CFAR insurance".

Thanks!

 

I wonder why NY doesn't allow true CFAR insurance.  Were there some sorts of abuses or something in the past?

 

GC

I think you all have figured it out collectively.  Thank you.  Yes, it has always been my understanding that CFAR insurance is not allowed to be sold in NY.  I was told a few years ago that this is because  CFAR does not meet their definition of an insurance product.   NY also doesn't allow annual travel insurance policies to be sold.  I don't know the "why" on that one.

[Travelling2Some]

17 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

NCL does not provide any insurance. They offer to give you a 75% credit if you buy Aon insurance through them and Aon denies your insurance claim. 

This sounds correct except that I would still be required to purchase the Booksafe policy which is exactly what the wording advises I don't have to do.  Here is the exact wording:  "Please note:  Residents of the state of New York are not required to purchase the BookSafe Travel Protection Plan in order to purchase the Cancel For Any Reason Credit Feature.  Please contact 1-888-722-2195 for details."  Seems to say pretty clearly that the "credit feature" can be purchased (their word) without buying the insurance.  It's a bit of a mystery.

 

There is also a sub-heading at the top of the page that reads:  "The following Cancel For Any Reason Credit Feature is provided by Norwegian Cruise Line and is not an insurance benefit."  So they are definitely getting around NYS law by saying it is NOT an insurance product but a "credit feature" offered by NCL. 

[Jersey42]

I saw @Travelling2Some’s similar thread on the trip insurance form and provided one insight and suggestion that might help.  I just saw this thread.  All of the posters here seem to be trying to help.  Most have added a disclaimer such as “I think”, “it appears” etc.  Some of the speculation is not true or only partially correct.  Even if none of it directly affects the OP, it might impact others stumbling upon this thread.  I offer some clarifications below.

 

On the other thread, the OP promised to provide an update if they actually speak with someone who can sell them just the CFAR credit feature.  Hopefully they are successful and can provide future NY travelers with a simple answer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you have a link or a screenshot for this?  I don't see it listed on the NCL travel protection section of their site.

It's well hidden. First go to the NCL BookSafe page.  Here is the one for Platinum: https://affinitytravelcert.com/document/pdfs/NCL-LandingPage-PLATINUM-7-2017.html

 

Then scroll to the bottom and select New York to see a sample policy for New York residents. https://affinitytravelcert.com/document/pdfs/NCL_Platinum_NY_COI_7_21.pdf

Look at the bottom of page 2. The same language is on the Standard plan.

 

Nationwide is no longer allowed to sell travel protection in New York.  That explains why i can’t find nationwide cruise travel insurance policies anymore on the various travel insurance websites.

As of today, Nationwide sells most if not all of their travel insurance policies to New York residents. This includes their cruise specific policies. Some of the terms and conditions may be different from the same policy sold to residents of other states. For example there is no NY benefit for "Fire, mechanical, other covered issue impacting cruise experience" in their cruise specific policies.

 

NCL does not provide any insurance. They offer to give you a 75% credit if you buy Aon insurance through them and Aon denies your insurance claim.

It is true that NCL does not provide any “insurance”.  The BookSafe plan (in most states) includes some “insurance” underwritten by Nationwide as well as some non-insurance services provided by NCL. Aon is the administrator for both the insurance and non-insurance parts of BookSafe.  In practice, if you cancel your cruise, in most states, Aon should verify the reason and reimburse you in cash if it is a covered reason.  If not, you get cash back for amounts not subject to penalties (including taxes and fees) and you get a 75 or 90% FCC for the remainder.  New York is different because of unique regulations (see next topic).  That is why NCL says you can purchase the CFAR separately from the rest of the BookSafe plan. So an NY resident could get the FCC without an insurance denial.  In other states, if the the reason for cancelation is "I changed my mind", it should just be processed as CFAR.  In almost all cases this should only be semantics, with the end result being the same. Some people are pleasantly surprised that a CFAR claim still gives you some cash back.

 

CFAR insurance can’t be sold in New York.

No longer true since March of 2020.  A change was made due to COVID.  Insurers must comply with unique NY rules so many of them still elect to not sell it.  Here is a link to the New York State update:  https://www.dfs.ny.gov/industry_guidance/circular_letters/cl2020_04

 

NY also doesn't allow annual travel insurance policies to be sold.

Not true, but most insurers do not want to deal with all of the rules in NY, so they elect to exclude New York residents.  Allianz still offers several annual travel insurance policies to New York residents.    

 

NY has ruled that if you cancel, there was really nothing at risk, so they have insured nothing and insurer must refund the insurance premium. So, really there is nothing to buy.

The first part is true to the best of my knowledge.  If a NY resident cancels a cruise and did not submit a claim, they get the insurance premium back in cash. If you are a resident of another state, many insurers will let you apply the premium to another trip. People still may want to buy insurance, because if you cancel without insurance you could lose all or most of your cruise fare.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Jersey42

[MCMC100]

I had same question and experience as OP.  The NY specific Terms and Conditions clearly state you can obtain CFAR coverage without buying the insurance. I was interested because I live close enough to Manhattan Cruise Terminal to walk if I want - not worried about flight delays, cancellations or list luggage.  On a NE/Canada cruise I don’t need medical coverage or assistance returning to US if I’m sick or injured. I am only interested in CFAR. 
 

I called the number NCL provided in the NY T&C’s. They told me they were the insurance claims processing unit. Referred me to NCL customer service. NCL wanted to sell me travel protection and had no idea what I was talking about. NCL referred me to the insurance; insurance referred me to NCL.  Nobody knew how to handle a question outside their prepared flowcharts. A classic circular firing squad. 
 

Clearly a half hearted attempt to comply with NYS law that consumers must be told they can get CFAR without buying travel insurance. Many states have specific consumer protection laws like this, but no one at NCL or the travel protection providers bother to train their staffs.

I gave up, as NCL hopes, because I figured if I finally found the one person who could/would answer the question I would be quoted a price for CFAR credit protection that was higher than the travel protection. 

[ontheweb]

15 hours ago, MCMC100 said:

 
 

Clearly a half hearted attempt to comply with NYS law that consumers must be told they can get CFAR without buying travel insurance. Many states have specific consumer protection laws like this, but no one at NCL or the travel protection providers bother to train their staffs.

 

I asked my TA after the InsureMyTrip guy could not answer if any other state had this protection, and he said only NY State. 

 

The InsureMyTrip guy actually did not realize NY state did this as when I posted that in addition to my refundable deposit, I received my insurance premium back. He said he had never heard of Travel Guard doing this.

[MCMC100]

43 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I asked my TA after the InsureMyTrip guy could not answer if any other state had this protection, and he said only NY State. 

 

The InsureMyTrip guy actually did not realize NY state did this as when I posted that in addition to my refundable deposit, I received my insurance premium back. He said he had never heard of Travel Guard doing this.

Ok, but what is the CFAR coverage, how do you get it and how much does it cost?   

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, MCMC100 said:

Ok, but what is the CFAR coverage, how do you get it and how much does it cost?   

What it really is is that you can cancel for any reason and get your insurance premium back. No cost for this. Sorry if what I wrote earlier was misleading.

[Jersey42]

26 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

What it really is is that you can cancel for any reason and get your insurance premium back. No cost for this. Sorry if what I wrote earlier was misleading.

Can you clarify.  My understanding is this is true if you are a NY resident and you cancel prior to being in the penalty phase.  If you cancel after cruise fare penalties start accruing, then the CFAR will cover a portion of the penalties, but you don't get your CFAR premium back.  Is this your understanding too?  

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

What it really is is that you can cancel for any reason and get your insurance premium back. No cost for this. Sorry if what I wrote earlier was misleading.

 

You get only the insurance premium back, and none of the pre-paid trip costs?

That seems like an odd insurance-like [it isn't actually "insurance" per above discussion] type of financial product.

 

GC

[Babr]

I think this group is talking about two different things. Ontheweb has made the point that New York insurance regulations allow the policyholder to get a refund of the premium if the cruise is cancelled before the penalty period.

 

The OP’s question is about buying CFAR coverage which would allow him to be reimbursed for a portion of the cruise fare if he cancelled for any reason during the penalty phase, which NCL appears to be offering but no one can figure out how to get it.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Babr said:

I think this group is talking about two different things. Ontheweb has made the point that New York insurance regulations allow the policyholder to get a refund of the premium if the cruise is cancelled before the penalty period.

 

The OP’s question is about buying CFAR coverage which would allow him to be reimbursed for a portion of the cruise fare if he cancelled for any reason during the penalty phase, which NCL appears to be offering but no one can figure out how to get it.

Correct. I was just trying to give some information to any NY residents that they could get their insurance premiums back. I apologize that I muddied the waters (pun intended) about CFAR insurance.

[MCMC100]

Babr is correct. We are discussing two separate things in this thread. The OP and I are wondering if any NY residents have been able to obtain the NCL offered Cancel For Any Reason credit feature without purchasing the BookSafe insurance.

 

As shown below, NCL states in the NY specific T&C’s for BookSafe that NY residents do not have to purchase BookSafe in order to obtain CFAR protection…..problem is no one at Aon or NCL seems to know what we are talking about when we contact them. 

From the NCL BookSafe Terms and Conditions for NY——-

Please note: Residents of the state of New York are not required to purchase the BookSafe Travel Protection Plan in order to purchase the Cancel For Any Reason Credit Feature. Please contact 1-888-722-2195 for details.

 

Have any fellow Empire Staters made it thru the maze?  How do we follow?  What does it cost?  
 

 

[ontheweb]

12 hours ago, MCMC100 said:

Babr is correct. We are discussing two separate things in this thread. The OP and I are wondering if any NY residents have been able to obtain the NCL offered Cancel For Any Reason credit feature without purchasing the BookSafe insurance.

 

As shown below, NCL states in the NY specific T&C’s for BookSafe that NY residents do not have to purchase BookSafe in order to obtain CFAR protection…..problem is no one at Aon or NCL seems to know what we are talking about when we contact them. 

From the NCL BookSafe Terms and Conditions for NY——-

Please note: Residents of the state of New York are not required to purchase the BookSafe Travel Protection Plan in order to purchase the Cancel For Any Reason Credit Feature. Please contact 1-888-722-2195 for details.

 

Have any fellow Empire Staters made it thru the maze?  How do we follow?  What does it cost?  
 

 

Not totally positive, but I do not think NY state allows CFAR insurance as they do not really consider it as insurance. The thinking is that insurance is something you take out against risk, which CFAR is not. It goes along with the same line of reasoning that allows your insurance premium to be refunded if you cancel as there was no longer a risk that is being covered.

 

Again, I could be wrong, but I believe this is the reasoning of the NY State Insurance Commission.

[EMM2024]

Hi! Have any NYers been able to figure this out? I don't want BookSafe, as I will be getting my own travel insurance, but I DO want the NY version that is offered for CFAR (the non-insuramce workaround). Please & thanks! 

Does it have to be purchased at the time of booking (which is what Princess does ... theirs is right on their website though & you don't have to call to get it). 

Thanks!!