Should Silversea be concerned about Crystal?

[fdnycruiser]

Should’ve been next to the bed. I have to remember to proofread the auto correct! Lol

[Gourmet Gal]

Perhaps I am an exception but I was not impressed with Crystal.  The small cabins, silly costumed  afternoon tea, the photographers blocking foot traffic and I’m sorry, the food was no improvement to SS.  The pax capacity was also an issue, I prefer smaller loads.  The entertainment and enrichment were the only plusses.  I will not be among those clamoring to relive the Crystal experience.

 

As for competition with SS?  I think the new smaller “yachts” could syphon some pax away.  Perhaps eventually RC if they get their act together, probably FS if they’re true to form and Aman as well.  

[jollyjones]

I sailed Crystal once ... one and done for pretty much the same reasons as Gourmet Gal.

Plus as a solo, dining was never pleasant, I always felt that I was an inconvenience for them in their crowded dining rooms - it was too uncomfortable, I gave up and mostly ate dinner in The Bistro (kinda like the Arts Cafe)

And I had to queue for things!!!!

[Randyk47]

I would not think RCL/Silversea are worried about a two ship Crystal line being much of a threat.  Sure they will be watching but probably no more than they are watching other new lines entering the luxury market.  The new Crystal most probably will be a mix of the old Silversea and Crystal business model as the announced leadership draws from both lines.  While Crystal might have gone down due to poor management at the broader corporate level it is still a failed business to some extent so going back to exactly the same model is not a good idea.  Also it really is Crystal in name only with only two ships since they no longer have their river or expedition fleet.  Barring acquiring existing ships it will take years for Crystal to expand.

[Mr Luxury]

2 hours ago, Randyk47 said:

I would not think RCL/Silversea are worried about a two ship Crystal line being much of a threat.  Sure they will be watching but probably no more than they are watching other new lines entering the luxury market.  The new Crystal most probably will be a mix of the old Silversea and Crystal business model as the announced leadership draws from both lines.  While Crystal might have gone down due to poor management at the broader corporate level it is still a failed business to some extent so going back to exactly the same model is not a good idea.  Also it really is Crystal in name only with only two ships since they no longer have their river or expedition fleet.  Barring acquiring existing ships it will take years for Crystal to expand.

Indeed Randy,

So bottom line,do you give it five years?

[Randyk47]

22 minutes ago, Mr Luxury said:

Indeed Randy,

So bottom line,do you give it five years?

It will probably take five years to see if A&K Travel Group have the finances and will to do what needs to be done.  Even if they started a new build as soon as they bought Crystal we’re still talking two to three years to bring it on line and I haven’t read they have gotten that far.   Acquiring existing ships is an option but I’m not aware of any available smaller ships that are luxury class worthy.  Most of the ships cut from other lines during the pandemic are too old or too big for that market.   

[cruiseej]

So these folks (Manfredi, the former Silversea execs he's hired, and the A&K management team) are pretty smart. They know better than any of us here what the limitations are of their two old ships. So how do you think they plan to turn this into a success?

[ggo85]

As a former Crystal cruiser who has done SS and will do SS twice this year, I do understand the Crystal mystique.  The service on C was better and more personal.  The butler was 100% better.  The enrichment is great.  Entertainment is FAR better. The ships have been modernized and, while the cabins are smaller, they use space efficiently.  
 

I would absolutely do C again.  We might sadly have to wait due to their itineraries and our SS bookings.  C may not be the same (you can’t go home again) but there are reasons to be hopeful. 
 

I also understand why some may not want to go back.  There is a cruise line for everyone. We aren’t total loyalists to any line. But don’t knock those who love C.  

[Mr Luxury]

7 hours ago, cruiseej said:

So these folks (Manfredi, the former Silversea execs he's hired, and the A&K management team) are pretty smart. They know better than any of us here what the limitations are of their two old ships. So how do you think they plan to turn this into a success?

By charging a lot for what they are offering.

Have you seen the prices compared to what you get with SS SB and R

[Tothesunset]

Had a look at the Crystal offerings. Eyes haven't stopped watering. 

[lincslady]

You might not want to travel with some of the Crystal aficionados if you look at the torrent of posts they are throwing at one another on the Crystal forum at present.😀

 

Lola

[Tothesunset]

5 minutes ago, lincslady said:

You might not want to travel with some of the Crystal aficionados if you look at the torrent of posts they are throwing at one another on the Crystal forum at present.😀

 

Lola

Quite right. Here on the SS board we have a much better class of argument. 

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, lincslady said:

You might not want to travel with some of the Crystal aficionados if you look at the torrent of posts they are throwing at one another on the Crystal forum at present.😀

 

Lola

 

The call the ship "home away from home" and the crew "the extended family"..

[dawntrdr]

I agree with those who say that Silversea is not likely to lose many regular customers to new Crystal.  Where I think Crystal may be a concern is in regards to crew staffing.  There is much discussion about whether pre-bankruptcy-Crystal's on-board crew  - who readily got jobs at other lines during the Covid labor shortage - will be going back to the ships now operated by new Crystal.  Some say it will be a significant number.

 

We all know that lack of experienced crew has been an issue with the lines that are currently operating.   (I was told last month while on the Dawn that they were short 20 crew, although the pax were at maximum)  If crew coming off contract go to Crystal, that's going to negatively impact the customer experience on all other luxury lines.

[cruiseej]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

The call the ship "home away from home" and the crew "the extended family"..

 

I've seen loyal cruisers of Silvers, Seabourn, and Regent say the same things. Also, "aside from the food or ship or entertainment, it's the crew that makes [insert cruise line] so special." Nothing wrong with that, either; it means there are people who are happy with their cruise choice, and that's what we'd hope to hear from most people, right?

 

(I only find it over the top when someone says "the crew/ship/dining is what makes [insert cruise line] the best!", and then elsewhere they say they have only cruised with, or only cruised in the past 10/15/20+ years, with [aforementioned cruise line]. 😉 )

[ak1004]

2 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

I've seen loyal cruisers of Silvers, Seabourn, and Regent say the same things. Also, "aside from the food or ship or entertainment, it's the crew that makes [insert cruise line] so special." Nothing wrong with that, either; it means there are people who are happy with their cruise choice, and that's what we'd hope to hear from most people, right?

 

(I only find it over the top when someone says "the crew/ship/dining is what makes [insert cruise line] the best!", and then elsewhere they say they have only cruised with, or only cruised in the past 10/15/20+ years, with [aforementioned cruise line]. 😉 )

 

I completely agree.

 

To me, all luxury lines provide comparable experience. No line is more special than others. Crystal was very strong in entertainment and enrichment (doesn't mean the new Crystal will be the same). SS has better itineraries (in my opinion). Other lines have their strong areas as well.

 

To me, the ship is a floating hotel to see the world, but some people on Crystal board actually complained that there are not enough sea days (maybe they are not aware that you don't have to leave the ship while in port?)

 

To me, the crew are service providers and not family. If the same crew member serves me a black caviar twice a day for two weeks, and after two weeks still doesn't remember my name, I couldn't care less. I will still enjoy my caviar. If on Crystal they remember my name after 2 days but I have to pay to my caviar.. you get the point.

 

Mercedes is not better than BMW, and BWM is not better than Audi.

[Randyk47]

3 hours ago, dawntrdr said:

I agree with those who say that Silversea is not likely to lose many regular customers to new Crystal.  Where I think Crystal may be a concern is in regards to crew staffing.  There is much discussion about whether pre-bankruptcy-Crystal's on-board crew  - who readily got jobs at other lines during the Covid labor shortage - will be going back to the ships now operated by new Crystal.  Some say it will be a significant number.

 

We all know that lack of experienced crew has been an issue with the lines that are currently operating.   (I was told last month while on the Dawn that they were short 20 crew, although the pax were at maximum)  If crew coming off contract go to Crystal, that's going to negatively impact the customer experience on all other luxury lines.

Interesting that you bring up the crew situation.  We just got off the Silver Dawn Monday after 14 days on her.  While service was good to excellent but it clearly was not up to Silversea pre-Covid standards across the board.  Of particular note was the service on the pool deck and La Terrazza in the morning.  The rest of the venues were right up there with our previous experience.  I saw at least half a dozen times when experienced staff had been paired with new crew doing on the job training.   We saw at least 60 crew get on in San Juan but also think several got off as our room steward was at end of contract though he had signed to join the Nova later this year.  We were also short bar tenders on the second leg of our back-to-back but that may have been caused by some unexplained exit of a married couple who were both lead bartenders.  As for ex-Crystal crew we were told by one crew he had been on Crystal and there were seven others on the Dawn.

[Stumblefoot]

59 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

...BWM is not better than Audi.

For sure.  Don't even know what BWM is. 😉

[FLRI]

It’s always a welcoming feeling when you get onboard and you have crew you have sailed with before acknowledge and welcome you back. It certainly makes you feel special; we assume they remember us for all good reasons LOL. 

 

The Crystal board is very nostalgic when it comes to crew and the ships…what happens when they get onboard and the crew is new and doesn’t recognize them, and the ships look totally different. Will they still feel the same way? New crew, new decor, new venues.

 

There is a lot of crew turnover post Covid. We were recently on the Dawn and have almost 300 days. We saw very few crew we had sailed with before and I think we were addressed by name maybe half a dozen times. We were a bit surprised. Cruise was still great, but it was missing that personal touch that we are used to. 

 

I think the Crystal folks will be shocked. They seem to think the entire crew is coming back. Some will undoubtedly have moved on. It will not be the Crystal that they know. When I look at the renditions of the cabins etc., the similarity to Silversea is quite striking.

 

 

 

[Randyk47]

9 hours ago, FLRI said:

 

There is a lot of crew turnover post Covid. We were recently on the Dawn and have almost 300 days. We saw very few crew we had sailed with before and I think we were addressed by name maybe half a dozen times. We were a bit surprised. Cruise was still great, but it was missing that personal touch that we are used to. 

 

 

 

We had the same observation on the Dawn.  We only have 14 cruises on Silversea but the Dawn was the first time we have not had one staff or crew from a previous cruise that we recognized.  It had been three years since our last cruise so I guess even under the best of circumstances it should be expected to have a few or maybe no holdovers but Covid I think made it worse.   While not a big deal the name recognition got better by the end of the cruise but it seemed slower than before.   We easily had a 10%+ influx of new crew and staff in San Juan mid cruise and though some also left the ship I think they are still rebuilding/recruiting new crew.  

[HPfoodie]

Just been looking at the Crystal website, which is pretty poor to be honest. And wondered what the difference is between an ‘attentive’ butler as opposed to a ‘junior’ butler. And still not all categories are eligible for butler service. I know we didn’t use our butler too much at all - but it was a luxury we enjoyed. 

[Randyk47]

53 minutes ago, HPfoodie said:

Just been looking at the Crystal website, which is pretty poor to be honest. And wondered what the difference is between an ‘attentive’ butler as opposed to a ‘junior’ butler. And still not all categories are eligible for butler service. I know we didn’t use our butler too much at all - but it was a luxury we enjoyed. 

We experienced a “junior” butler on another line and walked away underwhelmed.  Really played the same role as a lead or senior cabin steward on other lines.   

[Dolcevita Diva]

22 hours ago, dawntrdr said:

I agree with those who say that Silversea is not likely to lose many regular customers to new Crystal. 

Agreed.  Silversea has enjoyed an influx of new passengers from many fronts since they began sailing again, including Crystal loyalists who have been trying other lines since the bankruptcy.  It is only natural that these Crystal loyalists will be trying out the new Crystal.  

 

Although I'm a long-time Silversea loyalist, given Silversea's relatively high occupancy rates over the past 6 months or so and so many new to Silversea passengers making repeat bookings, it has been challenging for me to find lower single supplement rates on itineraries that I'm interested in for this year.   The good news for all we passengers is that there is increasing competition in the luxury segment which gives us more options and hopefully some attractive offers as they vie for bookings. 

[bohaiboy]

Unfortunately we met many former Crystal employees onboard the Moon.  Many had five + years with Crystal.  If the loyalty of Crystal employees is as strong as it seems, I personally believe many of these folks will head back, creating even more staffing issues.

 

The ships have been downsized, the Symphony has 606 PAX and the Serenity has 740.  The new itins are mundane nothing special or exotic.  I believe the PAX count is about 20% less than previously.  The pricing previously on Crystal was VERY expensive in my opinion.  The new ones seem to run about $600-700 per person per night for a veranda suite.  The verandas suites are small at 265 SGF including veranda.  Rates do not include air or excursions.

 

We found the previous food much better than SS has been post covid.  We sailed about 3 months prior to bankruptcy in Dec 2021.  Entertainment and enrichment was far superior to SS, however it also was a much younger crowd.

So only time will tell.  With two ships, itineraries will be very restricted without much choices, so overall I don't see them hurting SS.  The question might arise that the new Ritz Carlton, Four Seasons ships might have a larger impact on SS.  Competition is always good to have.

[drron29]

We were obviously lucky as on our Dawn cruise in August we met a few crew we had sailed with before. One fellow had been on 5 of  

our previous cruises and named them al. Rojaan had to pull out our list of cruises and found he was right.

 

Two of the new crew whose employment with SS began on the day we boarded quickly picked up the SS way and were excellent.