Is Iona actually bunkering with LNG yet?

[Advanced Diver]

Looks like Iona is actually using oil still to power it's dual fuel engines. The bunkering barges that come alongside still look to be supplying oil. Anyone seen her actually filling with LNG yet?

[molecrochip]

Yes, however she tends to bunker heavy oil more frequently on her Canaries / Spain cruises as there are less opportunities to bunker LNG.

[Snow Hill]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Yes, however she tends to bunker heavy oil more frequently on her Canaries / Spain cruises as there are less opportunities to bunker LNG.

Given all the press releases about it on the few environmentally friendly cruise ships in the seas, it is not living up to that claim then, it’s just as polluting as other ships in the P&O & Carnival fleet. Does the the same apply to Arvia?

[Mollag]

3 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

Given all the press releases about it on the few environmentally friendly cruise ships in the seas, it is not living up to that claim then, it’s just as polluting as other ships in the P&O & Carnival fleet. Does the the same apply to Arvia?

That’s P&O for you. You definitely don’t get what it says on the label. 

[wowzz]

Sun Princess will have the same issues when she comes into service.

For once,  I think we need to cut P&O some slack. The issue revolves around the lack of  LNG refuelling infrastructure - I'm not sure you can fully lay the blame  for that at P&O's door.

Would you blame the owner of an electric car if there were no recharging points when driving through a remote area ? 

[tring]

7 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Yes, however she tends to bunker heavy oil more frequently on her Canaries / Spain cruises as there are less opportunities to bunker LNG.

 

I thought Barcelona and Tenerife had those facilities.  In fact I thought I saw something saying a while back that she was staying longer in those ports because of that, but no idea where I saw it or if it is not always the case. 

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by tring

[Mollag]

28 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sun Princess will have the same issues when she comes into service.

For once,  I think we need to cut P&O some slack. The issue revolves around the lack of  LNG refuelling infrastructure - I'm not sure you can fully lay the blame  for that at P&O's door.

Would you blame the owner of an electric car if there were no recharging points when driving through a remote area ? 

Would the owner of the electric car go somewhere where they can’t recharge?

[wowzz]

17 minutes ago, Mollag said:

Would the owner of the electric car go somewhere where they can’t recharge?

No, but they would hope that recharging points would be available in the future, the same as P&O are expecting  LNG bunkers to become available.

[molecrochip]

Due to Covid, and then the war in Ukraine impacting the energy sector, the roll out of LNG facilities around Europe has been delayed.

 

In fact, at one point, you couldn’t bunker LNG as all the suitable bunker ships were holding surplus supplies at extortionate prices.

 

A ship that uses LNG 50% of the time will still be cleaner than one that is heavy oil only.

 

I believe Barbados and Antiqua were due to be LNG bunker ports but not sure on progress.

 

It takes longer to bunker LNG due to the need to cool, bunker, warm. So yes, longer stays. Unless thing gave changed I believe Haugesund in Norway is the main LNG bunker point for Iona, along with Rotterdam, Barcelona and Tenerife.

 

Southampton is usually heavy oil bunkering.

[tring]

12 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Due to Covid, and then the war in Ukraine impacting the energy sector, the roll out of LNG facilities around Europe has been delayed.

 

In fact, at one point, you couldn’t bunker LNG as all the suitable bunker ships were holding surplus supplies at extortionate prices.

 

A ship that uses LNG 50% of the time will still be cleaner than one that is heavy oil only.

 

I believe Barbados and Antiqua were due to be LNG bunker ports but not sure on progress.

 

It takes longer to bunker LNG due to the need to cool, bunker, warm. So yes, longer stays. Unless thing gave changed I believe Haugesund in Norway is the main LNG bunker point for Iona, along with Rotterdam, Barcelona and Tenerife.

 

Southampton is usually heavy oil bunkering.

 

Does that mean any new Iona summer season cruises will continue to just go to the Fjords in the foreseeable future?  Also Is it possible for LNG to become available in Southampton or another UK port?

 

Can I  also ask what the cost difference is between LNG and heavy oil?

 

 

Edited February 22, 2023 by tring

[Yorkypete]

2 hours ago, tring said:

 

Does that mean any new Iona summer season cruises will continue to just go to the Fjords in the foreseeable future?  Also Is it possible for LNG to become available in Southampton or another UK port?

 

Can I  also ask what the cost difference is between LNG and heavy oil?

 

 

Unless they can use the correct fuel all ships will be banned from the Med from Jan 2025.

[daiB]

50 minutes ago, Yorkypete said:

Unless they can use the correct fuel all ships will be banned from the Med from Jan 2025.

????? What about all the other ships in all fleets that are not LNG. Don’t know where you got this from?

[Bill Y]

1 hour ago, Yorkypete said:

Unless they can use the correct fuel all ships will be banned from the Med from Jan 2025.

Interesting, this sounds alarmist, but what does it actually mean?

 

Is it just a lighter less polluting but more expensive fuel oil that must be used as in the North Sea and the Fjords?  Even oil burning cruise ships are allowed in Antarctica’s waters. I did not know until mentioned by Moley that P&O’s much trumpeted LPG ships could run on oil. They kept that quiet.

 

https://www.gard.no/web/updates/content/29212584/regional-sulphur-emission-limits-at-a-glance

[molecrochip]

It’s not true as suggested. 

 

I understand that certain ports are looking at restrictions but this is based on emissions. A large number of ships have now been fitted with scrubbers to clean the emissions. This mitigates the new oil burning rules.

 

Said rules are already in place in various parts of the world where the company cruises.

 

Cruise ships aren’t nearly the problem that some container ships are.

Edited February 22, 2023 by molecrochip
Clarification & elaboration

[tring]

2 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

Unless they can use the correct fuel all ships will be banned from the Med from Jan 2025.

 

Not true, but there will be requirements for a lower sulphur fuel, which has been discussed on page 7 of the "Carnival Corporation Axing Three Ships" thread.

 

Snow Hill posted this link:-

 

https://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/pages/MEPC-79.aspx

 

and I had subsequently posted the following (post 175 in that thread):-

 

"There is a 4 minute video explaining the changes and their expected effect, which can be clicked through to from the underlined words "cleaner air" in the article link to above.  NIce and simple with pretty pictures, so my sort of thing 🙂 

 

If I am understanding your link correctly, similar (possibly the same) controls are already effective, or being applied to other areas - "the Baltic Sea area; the North Sea area; the North American area (covering designated coastal areas off the United States and Canada); and the United States Caribbean Sea area (around Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands)."

 

There is a 4 minute video explaining the changes and their expected effect, which can be clicked through to from the underlined words "cleaner air" in the article link to above.  NIce and simple with pretty pictures, so my sort of thing 🙂 "

 

[carlanthony24]

6 hours ago, Mollag said:

Would the owner of the electric car go somewhere where they can’t recharge?

Pretty sure a LNG bunker had to come from Holland to Southampton everytime Iona/Arvia was docked.

[terrierjohn]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

It’s not true as suggested. 

 

I understand that certain ports are looking at restrictions but this is based on emissions. A large number of ships have now been fitted with scrubbers to clean the emissions. This mitigates the new oil burning rules.

 

Said rules are already in place in various parts of the world where the company cruises.

 

Cruise ships aren’t nearly the problem that some container ships are.

Ii would think the many thousands of little fishing boats in the med, all burning the cheapest diesel they can buy, will cause a heck of a lot more pollution than a whole fleet of cruise ships.

[Advanced Diver]

I was told that they are not refuelling with LNG mainly because of the cost of gas following the Ukraine war, but I guess the lack of LNG barges may have something to do with it.

[Yorkypete]

5 hours ago, daiB said:

????? What about all the other ships in all fleets that are not LNG. Don’t know where you got this from?

 

4 hours ago, Bill Y said:

Interesting, this sounds alarmist, but what does it actually mean?

 

Is it just a lighter less polluting but more expensive fuel oil that must be used as in the North Sea and the Fjords?  Even oil burning cruise ships are allowed in Antarctica’s waters. I did not know until mentioned by Moley that P&O’s much trumpeted LPG ships could run on oil. They kept that quiet.

 

https://www.gard.no/web/updates/content/29212584/regional-sulphur-emission-limits-at-a-glance

FromJan 1st 2025 all ships with a sulpur emmission of over 1% will not be allowed in the Mediterranian. This was decided and signed by 25 countries at  the COP22 meeting in Barcelona. It is as per the the Protection of the Marine Environment and Coastal Regions of the Mediterranian. That is where this comes from. You can look it up quite easily.

[terrierjohn]

14 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

 

FromJan 1st 2025 all ships with a sulpur emmission of over 1% will not be allowed in the Mediterranian. This was decided and signed by 25 countries at  the COP22 meeting in Barcelona. It is as per the the Protection of the Marine Environment and Coastal Regions of the Mediterranian. That is where this comes from. You can look it up quite easily.

But do any of P&Os ships currently fail this 1% test, or can they all comply, even if run on diesel oil?

[Yorkypete]

2 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

But do any of P&Os ships currently fail this 1% test, or can they all comply, even if run on diesel oil?

It is not a 1% figure. It may have been my mistake but the actual figure is .1%

[daiB]

17 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

 

FromJan 1st 2025 all ships with a sulpur emmission of over 1% will not be allowed in the Mediterranian. This was decided and signed by 25 countries at  the COP22 meeting in Barcelona. It is as per the the Protection of the Marine Environment and Coastal Regions of the Mediterranian. That is where this comes from. You can look it up quite easily.

I think you are comparing apples with oranges. If you were right cruising would stop completely in the med for all cruise lines without LNG ships. Which is most of them.

[Chippyminton]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

But do any of P&Os ships currently fail this 1% test, or can they all comply, even if run on diesel oil?

It's not the fuel that is the problem, its the exhaust fumes, Carnival  and NCL have already fitted new exhust systems on their ships to run within the 0.1 limit , others, presumably are doing this as well. 

[Yorkypete]

1 hour ago, daiB said:

I think you are comparing apples with oranges. If you were right cruising would stop completely in the med for all cruise lines without LNG ships. Which is most of them.

Yes....and that is the general idea from many ports. It also includes cargo vessels and the only exclusion are ferries. Of course those that pass the test are limited by size as well. It beats me why the companies are building ever bigger ships when they know some ports will ban them and a number of ports cannot accommodate them. Perhaps they are copying P&O who appear to want literal cruise ships which only have  sea days and no ports.

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Yorkypete said:

It is not a 1% figure. It may have been my mistake but the actual figure is .1%

OK, same question do all the P&O ships fail the 0.1% level?