Minors losing their Diamond status…

[Ourusualbeach]

4 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

As I stated much earlier, I can not explain or justify what others experience or got away with.  I am only posting the policy that, to me, is straightforward if you read it in its entirety.  I've read the same policy for a long time.  Exactly how long, I don't remember.  I never thought it would be an issue.  All I can say for sure, it's been at least a year.

I guess we will agree to disagree about how the policy is read.  I certainly interpret it different than you do and the way I interpret it has been in fact how the policy has been applied in the past.  

 

Again, a lot of people speculating based on one post.  

[Ret MP]

Just now, Ourusualbeach said:

I guess we will agree to disagree about how the policy is read.  I certainly interpret it different than you do and the way I interpret it has been in fact how the policy has been applied in the past.  

 

Again, a lot of people speculating based on one post.  

Ken, I'm not speculating on any post.  I'm posting a cut and paste of the policy and it is in black and white, with little to no interpretation required.  One paragraph falls under the "YOUTH BENEFIT", which basically explains what the benefit is for youths, under 18.  For example:  Children share the same tier (up to Diamond Plus) as their parent until age 18.  The other paragraph falls under the heading of "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS", which gets a little more into the down-and-dirty, ins and outs of the policy.  For example:  "A Crown & Anchor Society member can be added into a relationship with other family members in the same household and receive equivalent tier status; however, Cruise Points will remain according to actual cruises taken and calculated using the Program level accrual system described above".

 

Are you interpreting the policy that once a person turns 18, he or she gets unearned points?  Are you saying that a first-time cruiser gets whatever points their parents have at the time of the first cruise?  Are you saying that if the parent has 140 points and it's the youngster's first cruise, he/she gets 140 points, on their first cruise, on their permanent C&A account?  I'm saying no to all of the above based on the written policy.  

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

6 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Ken, I'm not speculating on any post.  I'm posting a cut and paste of the policy and it is in black and white, with little to no interpretation required.  One paragraph falls under the "YOUTH BENEFIT", which basically explains what the benefit is for youths, under 18.  For example:  Children share the same tier (up to Diamond Plus) as their parent until age 18.  The other paragraph falls under the heading of "GENERAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS", which gets a little more into the down-and-dirty, ins and outs of the policy.  For example:  "A Crown & Anchor Society member can be added into a relationship with other family members in the same household and receive equivalent tier status; however, Cruise Points will remain according to actual cruises taken and calculated using the Program level accrual system described above".

 

Are you interpreting the policy that once a person turns 18, he or she gets unearned points?  Are you saying that a first-time cruiser gets whatever points their parents have at the time of the first cruise?  Are you saying that if the parent has 140 points and it's the youngster's first cruise, he/she gets 140 points, on their first cruise, on their permanent C&A account?  I'm saying no to all of the above based on the written policy.  

 

 

Each section is separate from each other and refers to something else.  You cannot combine sections.

 

Kids under 18 shares their parents status but they have their own points. Just like spouses, they appear to have the same points as the highest member in the household yet each does have their own point totals.  Kids upon turning 18 now see their own point totals yet they retain the status of their parents the last time they sailed with them. To advance to the next level they must then accumulate enough points on their own to reach that level.

 

This means a 17 year old with 14 points who sailed with Diamond parents when they were 17 retains the status of her parents of diamond yet has 14 points yet is still a diamond.  If they fail to remove the child from the relationship at 18 and sails with the parents again and the parents happened to make D+ and that was incorrectly passed on to the child then that D+ level would be removed and the 18 year old would revert to being Diamond with whatever their point total is.  This is the way the policy has worked for years and there is nothing new in the policy to suggest a change.  

 

Again the only reason this thread exists is because of one person's report. 

[Ret MP]

1 minute ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Each section is separate from each other and refers to something else.  You cannot combine sections.  Totally disagree with this!  The refer to the same subject, the same thing. You have to read both to get the full picture.  Are you saying that the General Terms and Conditions don't mean anything?  The General Terms and Conditions have no impact on what it say it does?  The only thing that applies is the "Youth Benefits"?  

 

Kids under 18 shares their parents status but they have their own points <Yes, isn't that exactly what I've been saying that the policy says!. Just like spouses, they appear? to have the same points <Tier/Status, not points as the highest member in the household yet each does have their own point totals <That they actually earned.  Kids upon turning 18 now see their own point totals yet they retain the status of their parents the last time they sailed with them. To advance to the next level they must then accumulate enough points on their own to reach that level.  <I understand what you are saying there.  However, I'd really like to see the wording where you get that from, too.  *=see below

 

This means a 17 year old with 14 points who sailed with Diamond parents when they were 17 retains the status of her parents <I'd be interested in seeing the wording or link to that of diamond yet has 14 points yet is still a diamond. If they fail to remove the child from the relationship at 18 and sails with the parents again and the parents happened to make D+ and that was incorrectly passed on to the child then that D+ level would be removed and the 18 year old would revert to being Diamond with whatever their point total is.  This is the way the policy has worked for years and there is nothing new in the policy to suggest a change.  

 

Again the only reason this thread exists is because of one person's report. 

 

*  I see where you are getting that, see below.  But, that's interpreting the sentences as the points are at the parent's level, not earned level.  I'm saying that the child only built up points that they actually earned will be carried over past the 18th birthday  What verbiage says that an 18-year-old is granted their parents points?  

 

" Children will be removed from a loyalty relationship with a parent or guardian upon their 18th birthday. If it is found that a dependent or child is not immediately removed from a relationship upon their 18th birthday and accumulates a higher tier status outside of this time period, the dependent’s record will be adjusted back to the appropriate tier status without notice.

 

Once again and again and again.  I'm not disputing what has been done, I'm not disputing what people have gotten away with.  I'm not doing anything other than providing the written black-and-white policy, in its entirety, the relevant entirety.  I have not changed an official word of the policy other than highlighting certain words and sentences.  

 

Okay, I've said what I'm going to say for the night.  Good night all!

[Denversail]

5 hours ago, cruisegirl1 said:

Adult siblings are not status matched.  Simply living in the same household as a relative is not a reason for a match.    They must have assumed you were (or you presented yourselves as) a single gender couple. 

 

M

This isn’t true or at least wasn’t at the time since my sister status matched our entire household at the time including our parents. They only required that we have the same address which we did. No we didn’t deceive anyone. This was almost 20 years ago. 
 

 

[nelblu]

12 hours ago, twangster said:

The newly adjusted DP340 time frames will cause Royal to come out on the losing side for a few more cruises now but in the bigger picture it doesn't really matter as price isn't the only factor when playing the field.  Sometimes I book elsewhere at a higher cost just to try something different.

Can you elaborate on this statement as I'm at the 340+ level and usually any changes/revisions I discover on good and intelligent people on this board.

[twangster]

23 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Can you elaborate on this statement as I'm at the 340+ level and usually any changes/revisions I discover on good and intelligent people on this board.

 

It used to be July and August were blacked out.  Now it's June 15 through Aug. 15. 

 

It used to be Christmas and New Year's were blacked out.  Now it's Christmas, New Year’s, Thanksgiving and Easter/Spring break are blacked out.  "Spring break" is a bit elusive too as spring break is practiced different weeks by different entities.  That's basically the month of March.

 

 

Old verbiage

 

Single members must have 340 Cruise Points earned in order to receive

the single cruise fare at 150%. This offer is based on availability with certain

restrictions. Ocean Voyage Packages, Holiday sailings (Christmas and New Year)

and the months of July and August are not included in this offer.

 

March 2023 verbiage:

 

Single members must have at least 340 Cruise Points

earned to receive the single cruise fare at 150%. This offer is

based on availability with certain restrictions. Ocean Voyage

Packages, Holiday sailings (Christmas, New Year’s, Thanksgiving,

Easter/Spring break) and the peak summer months of June 15

thru August 15 are not included in this offer.

 

Personally this has led me to book an MSC ship for Thanksgiving.  Pulling DP340 for Thanksgiving tilted the playing field and drove me to MSC.  Interesting impact of a loyalty program.  Oh well -  their ships, their rules.

[Mapleleafforever]

6 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Each section is separate from each other and refers to something else.  You cannot combine sections.

 

Kids under 18 shares their parents status but they have their own points. Just like spouses, they appear to have the same points as the highest member in the household yet each does have their own point totals.  Kids upon turning 18 now see their own point totals yet they retain the status of their parents the last time they sailed with them. To advance to the next level they must then accumulate enough points on their own to reach that level.

 

This means a 17 year old with 14 points who sailed with Diamond parents when they were 17 retains the status of her parents of diamond yet has 14 points yet is still a diamond.  If they fail to remove the child from the relationship at 18 and sails with the parents again and the parents happened to make D+ and that was incorrectly passed on to the child then that D+ level would be removed and the 18 year old would revert to being Diamond with whatever their point total is.  This is the way the policy has worked for years and there is nothing new in the policy to suggest a change.  

 

Again the only reason this thread exists is because of one person's report. 

This is exactly how it was explained to us by the LA on Harmony when we signed up our daughter. 

[nelblu]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

It used to be July and August were blacked out.  Now it's June 15 through Aug. 15. 

 

It used to be Christmas and New Year's were blacked out.  Now it's Christmas, New Year’s, Thanksgiving and Easter/Spring break are blacked out.  "Spring break" is a bit elusive too as spring break is practiced different weeks by different entities.  That's basically the month of March.

 

 

Old verbiage

 

Single members must have 340 Cruise Points earned in order to receive

the single cruise fare at 150%. This offer is based on availability with certain

restrictions. Ocean Voyage Packages, Holiday sailings (Christmas and New Year)

and the months of July and August are not included in this offer.

 

March 2023 verbiage:

 

Single members must have at least 340 Cruise Points

earned to receive the single cruise fare at 150%. This offer is

based on availability with certain restrictions. Ocean Voyage

Packages, Holiday sailings (Christmas, New Year’s, Thanksgiving,

Easter/Spring break) and the peak summer months of June 15

thru August 15 are not included in this offer.

 

Personally this has led me to book an MSC ship for Thanksgiving.  Pulling DP340 for Thanksgiving tilted the playing field and drove me to MSC.  Interesting impact of a loyalty program.  Oh well -  their ships, their rules.

When was this changed as I booked an on board sail in December '22 and got my solo supplement for an Anthem Easter '24 sail.

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, nelblu said:

When was this changed as I booked an on board sail in December '22 and got my solo supplement for an Anthem Easter '24 sail.

Just a few weeks ago

[nelblu]

20 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Just a few weeks ago

Thanks. I don’t mind pushing it up a month in June and allowing the second half of August as that is when the fare prices are often high, excluding Xmas and new year’s. 

[S.A.M.J.R.]

8 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

If the child is not removed and advances beyond their current status they will be adjusted back to their proper status.

 

No where does it say they will be adjusted to what their points are.

Doesn't that depend on the definition of "proper"?

 

For example, let's say parents have 172 points, their 17 year has 33.  Parents are D, and kid, since under 18 is also considered D.   After the child turns 18, they go on a seven day cruise together.  So now the parents have 181, the 18yo has 42.  Is the 18yos "proper" status still Diamond or is it Platinum?  

 

I can see the argument both ways.  

[graciekelli]

I have a question on this issue.  Where do you see how many points a child has actually earned?  I never really kept track of the kid's points, just ours.  They have not been on all the same cruises as us, but many of them. Now they are all grown and on their own.  DD (25) and DS (23) are both planning their own "first" cruises without Mommy and Daddy footing the bill.  When we went onto their CAS account, they are both listed as Diamond and have the same exact points as we do, which we know cannot be correct since they didn't go on every cruise we took.  They actually could be Diamond on their own, as we are very close in points to D+, but I don't know for sure. 

 

I told them both that they will just need to see what happens.  They could still be diamond or not.  I have no idea.  My son is married and will be bringing his wife on her first cruise ever.  My daughter lives with her boyfriend and she is bringing him on his first cruise ever.  I am curious to find out what happens.  But, whatever happens, I am fine with it.  My kids did not "earn" anything.  We the parents earned everything.  

[Ourusualbeach]

40 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Doesn't that depend on the definition of "proper"?

 

For example, let's say parents have 172 points, their 17 year has 33.  Parents are D, and kid, since under 18 is also considered D.   After the child turns 18, they go on a seven day cruise together.  So now the parents have 181, the 18yo has 42.  Is the 18yos "proper" status still Diamond or is it Platinum?  

 

I can see the argument both ways.  

Again, the wording has not changed at all and how I described it has been the standard practice for the last decade and now people are trying to read something into the terms that isn't there based on one report.

[Ourusualbeach]

Just now, graciekelli said:

Where do you see how many points a child has actually earned?

You cant, just like you can't see your spouses if they do not have the same number of points as you.  To find this out you need to call C&A.

[Ourusualbeach]

2 minutes ago, graciekelli said:

When we went onto their CAS account, they are both listed as Diamond and have the same exact points as we do, which we know cannot be correct since they didn't go on every cruise we took.  They actually could be Diamond on their own, as we are very close in points to D+, but I don't know for sure.

Call and have them removed from the family relationship

[Ourusualbeach]

3 minutes ago, graciekelli said:

My kids did not "earn" anything.

If they sailed on the ship, they earned it.  Like air line points, it does not matter who pays only who flies/sails

[twangster]

7 minutes ago, graciekelli said:

I have a question on this issue.  Where do you see how many points a child has actually earned?  I never really kept track of the kid's points, just ours.  They have not been on all the same cruises as us, but many of them. Now they are all grown and on their own.  DD (25) and DS (23) are both planning their own "first" cruises without Mommy and Daddy footing the bill.  When we went onto their CAS account, they are both listed as Diamond and have the same exact points as we do, which we know cannot be correct since they didn't go on every cruise we took.  They actually could be Diamond on their own, as we are very close in points to D+, but I don't know for sure. 

 

I told them both that they will just need to see what happens.  They could still be diamond or not.  I have no idea.  My son is married and will be bringing his wife on her first cruise ever.  My daughter lives with her boyfriend and she is bringing him on his first cruise ever.  I am curious to find out what happens.  But, whatever happens, I am fine with it.  My kids did not "earn" anything.  We the parents earned everything.  

 

I'm not sure about kids but for spouses when you log into the account for the person who has lesser points, their "past cruises" may contain the audit trail for their actual points if they were outside of the relationship. 

[A&L_Ont]

12 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I haven't been able to find anything that says the C&A points expire.  Has anybody seen the policy, if any?  

They do not. 

 

11 hours ago, Mapleleafforever said:

Doesn't seem so fair that kids lose their status now considering......in my opinion anyway. 

Agreed. 

 

11 hours ago, Ret MP said:

I think the point that needs to be made is that NOBODY loses anything they EARNED <POINTS.  What happens when someone turns 18 or gets divorced (I'm assuming the divorced part) they lose their "tier Status", that they were granted, not earned.  

 

If they get divorced nothing happens either.  
 

Once a long time ago there was a CC thread to which one person was trying to get their exes C&A membership downgraded because that person married into their status.  The CC member wanted to find out what they could do, who to talk to etc… to get their divorced partner adjusted to their appropriate level. There was never a final post on what happened that I remember.
 

Side note, makes you wonder what that marriage was like. 🤷‍♂️

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by A&L_Ont

[graciekelli]

11 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

I'm not sure about kids but for spouses when you log into the account for the person who has lesser points, their "past cruises" may contain the audit trail for their actual points if they were outside of the relationship. 

Good idea.  I will have them pull up their history and calculate their points...oh wait, I'm not sure, several cruises were under the old system of points.  

[graciekelli]

1 minute ago, graciekelli said:

Good idea.  I will have them pull up their history and calculate their points...oh wait, I'm not sure, several cruises were under the old system of points.  

Not to mention, cruises that we did in suites or double points when their used to be Double for Diamonds in December. So, if we were sailing as diamonds in December, but they weren't actually Diamond themselves, did they earn the double points?  This can get very complex.  Like I said...I just told them to roll with the punches and see what happens.  DS sails end of April and DD sails in August.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

35 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Again, the wording has not changed at all and how I described it has been the standard practice for the last decade and now people are trying to read something into the terms that isn't there based on one report.

But, it does give Royal an opening if they want to change the practice.  IMO of course. 

[Ourusualbeach]

5 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

But, it does give Royal an opening if they want to change the practice.  IMO of course. 

Yes, Royal does seem to be quite good at having policies that are not crystal clear.

[Ret MP]

22 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Again, the wording has not changed at all and how I described it has been the standard practice for the last decade and now people are trying to read something into the terms that isn't there based on one report.

Please please please, with a pointed/specific answer show exactly where I, if that comment was a backhanded way to accuse me of reading into something.  Don't just say it, show it. The only thing I'm pointing out is that the policy says that you earn points and are granted tier/status.  I think we totally agree that tier/status can change upon reaching 18.  What I contend is that when a youngster gets into the C&A for the first time, he/she starts with 0 points until completion of the first cruise and then that person has earned the number of points that is commensurate with the completed cruise, period.  If the parent has 140 points, the child doesn't get that, he/she gets what they earned, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8....... points.  But, he/she is considered or shares their parent's status of D until they turn 18.  Now, I'm fairly sure that many kids cruise with their parents all the time, in that case, they not only share their parent's tier/status, but they also earned enough points to actually be the same tier/status and wouldn't lose it at 18.  They would not lose their tier/status just because they turned 18.

 

I'm not infallible, that's for sure.  However, when I'm engaged in a discussion, I'd like to SEE where I may be wrong.  I don't see it right now.  I don't have a problem being wrong if I am and I will be humble if I am.  

 

 

 

[Morecruisesplz]

12 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

But, it does give Royal an opening if they want to change the practice.  IMO of course. 

And the timing is in line with many other cost cutting efforts by Royal.