New or old news?

[Wonky]

Don’t know if this is new news but Mr Ludlow just announced in a video tweeted that Aurora and Arcadia will both have major refits in the next two years. I know these ships are very popular with cruise critickers.

[molecrochip]

It was announced about 6 weeks ago. No major details yet as far as I’m aware.

 

This is underpinned by Josh W’s comments that there is currently no major new ship building plan beyond 2026. Fleet she will get older.

 

I think it’s fair to say that 2025-2030 will be light on new ships. This supports debt pay-down as they are not paying off more new ships.

 

Obvious caveat: this is as off now. They may refurbish a ship then get an offer that’s too good to be true and sell it. Always a risk.

[Wonky]

I guess as the orders dry up there is potential for a few bargains at the shipyards too!

[Wonky]

Spend $200m and get a feee climbing wall😂

[LondonLad60]

1 hour ago, molecrochip said:

It was announced about 6 weeks ago. No major details yet as far as I’m aware.

 

This is underpinned by Josh W’s comments that there is currently no major new ship building plan beyond 2026. Fleet she will get older.

 

I think it’s fair to say that 2025-2030 will be light on new ships. This supports debt pay-down as they are not paying off more new ships.

 

Obvious caveat: this is as off now. They may refurbish a ship then get an offer that’s too good to be true and sell it. Always a risk.

That's what the cynic in me is thinking - they might be sprucing them up to make them more attractive to potential buyers.

[david63]

18 minutes ago, LondonLad60 said:

to make them more attractive to potential buyers.

Or for transferring to other Carnival brands

[molecrochip]

3 minutes ago, david63 said:

Or for transferring to other Carnival brands

Not quite sure which brands you think have a need for these ships.

 

Aida: Lots of capacity at present.

CCL: lacks any funship elements.

Costa: Have too many of own ship.

Cunard: Queen Anne set to give massive capacity increase.

HAL: have a lot of capacity / disposed of four smaller ships during pause.

P&O Au: Focused on grand class for future.

Princess: have 2 on order and focused on bigger ships.

Seabourn: not ultra-lux styled.

 

I think this is a positive for those who like the existing adults only ships.

[david63]

6 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Not quite sure which brands you think have a need for these ships.

The one that came to mind was the tie up that Carnival had with China, but I don't know if that still exists. If I remember correctly isn't that where Oriana went which is a similar style of ship.

[molecrochip]

The China tie up was 2 Costa ships and 2 new built ships. Oriana was sold to a completely independent company.

[wowzz]

26 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

I think this is a positive for those who like the existing adults only ships.

Whilst it is good news for those who like adult ships, the refurbishments announced seem to relate to mainly cosmetic changes such as furniture, soft furnishings etc. rather than structural improvements. 

As you said some time ago, bathrooms,  for example are designed to last the life of the ship, and replacing them is really not feasible.  And the bathrooms on Arcadia are already showing their age !

We were thoroughly disappointed with our cruise on Arcadia last year - so, much as we like the idea of adult cruises,  we are not prepared to cruise on her again, despite the adult only benefit. 

Goodness knows what state Arcadia and Aurora will be like in five years time.

[molecrochip]

1 minute ago, wowzz said:

Whilst it is good news for those who like adult ships, the refurbishments announced seem to relate to mainly cosmetic changes such as furniture, soft furnishings etc. rather than structural improvements. 

As you said some time ago, bathrooms,  for example are designed to last the life of the ship, and replacing them is really not feasible.  And the bathrooms on Arcadia are already showing their age !

We were thoroughly disappointed with our cruise on Arcadia last year - so, much as we like the idea of adult cruises,  we are not prepared to cruise on her again, despite the adult only benefit. 

Goodness knows what state Arcadia and Aurora will be like in five years time.

The announcements were of new furniture now PLUS multi million pound refurbishments internally at dry dock. Those refurbishments have not been set out in detail.

[Wonky]

He used the phrase “major refit”.

[wowzz]

Just now, molecrochip said:

The announcements were of new furniture now PLUS multi million pound refurbishments internally at dry dock. Those refurbishments have not been set out in detail.

Hopefully then we will get new bathrooms,  new interior cabin walls, and a new air conditioning system that actually works. 

[Pippa04]

The fact that the details of the refurbishment haven't been specified when it's obvious to a blind man and his dog what's needed leads the cynic in me to suggest that it's just public areas that will be tarted up.

[davecttr]

2 hours ago, molecrochip said:

The China tie up was 2 Costa ships and 2 new built ships. Oriana was sold to a completely independent company.

Was one of those ships Costa Venezia? It is currently on refit in Cadiz with the yellow funnel but now listed as Carnival Venezia on Marine Traffic.

[molecrochip]

21 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Was one of those ships Costa Venezia? It is currently on refit in Cadiz with the yellow funnel but now listed as Carnival Venezia on Marine Traffic.

No Venezia together with Firenze are moving to Carnival together with Luminosa.

 

The ships transferred to China are Costa Atlantica and Costa Mediterrania.

 

 

 

 

[Selbourne]

I think the term “multi £ million” when it comes to refits can imply something far more than it is. With something the size of a cruise ship, just replacing carpets and selected soft furnishings will always run into a multi £m cost! The most recent refits were trumpeted as multi £m refits and the changes, from what I read, were purely cosmetic!

[cruise saint]

8 hours ago, LondonLad60 said:

That's what the cynic in me is thinking - they might be sprucing them up to make them more attractive to potential buyers.

If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. 

[Selbourne]

Just now, cruise saint said:

If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. 

I think that’s happening already. 

[davecttr]

1 hour ago, Selbourne said:

I think the term “multi £ million” when it comes to refits can imply something far more than it is. With something the size of a cruise ship, just replacing carpets and selected soft furnishings will always run into a multi £m cost! The most recent refits were trumpeted as multi £m refits and the changes, from what I read, were purely cosmetic!

Do Arcadia and Aurora have shower doors? If not upgraded bathroom is needed. At £5000 plus £5000 fitting that would be £10 million for starters. For example when Celebrity Galaxy moved to TUI she had a 50 million euro upgrade including passenger cabins

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, cruise saint said:

If they do sell off the smaller ships and replace them with more mega ships, I could see a major shift in the P&O customer demographic. 

No more mega ships are planned for the foreseeable future. Carnival don't have the money !

[wowzz]

1 hour ago, davecttr said:

Do Arcadia and Aurora have shower doors? If not upgraded bathroom is needed. At £5000 plus £5000 fitting that would be £10 million for starters. For example when Celebrity Galaxy moved to TUI she had a 50 million euro upgrade including passenger cabins

Arcadia just has shower curtains. 

As Moley said some time ago,  the bathrooms are modular units, and as such are intended to last the life of the ship. To all intents and purposes the bathrooms cannot be changed. You might be able to change the grouting, and put in a shower door, but the loo, basin and sink have to stay.

The bathrooms on Arcadia are really very tired, and there is no easy or economic fix.

[terrierjohn]

38 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Arcadia just has shower curtains. 

As Moley said some time ago,  the bathrooms are modular units, and as such are intended to last the life of the ship. To all intents and purposes the bathrooms cannot be changed. You might be able to change the grouting, and put in a shower door, but the loo, basin and sink have to stay.

The bathrooms on Arcadia are really very tired, and there is no easy or economic fix.

New toilets could be fitted, we had a brand new one on Ventura once,but of course they have to be the same design, or very similar to fit the existing plumbing. I guess new basins could be also be fitted, and we have had new shower units in the past. So a bathroom freshen up would not be impossible, and I guess wardrobes and drawer units could similarly be refreshed.  But I guess we will find out in the fullness of time what this multi million pound refit really will provide, although I do remember a similar promise of  large new flat screen TVs to be fitted Fleet wide at each next refit, and that was back in 2015/6 at least one refit ago 

[wowzz]

1 minute ago, terrierjohn said:

New toilets could be fitted, we had a brand new one on Ventura once,but of course they have to be the same design, or very similar to fit the existing plumbing. I guess new basins could be also be fitted, and we have had new shower units in the past. So a bathroom freshen up would not be impossible, and I guess wardrobes and drawer units could similarly be refreshed.  But I guess we will find out in the fullness of time what this multi million pound refit really will provide, although I do remember a similar promise of  large new flat screen TVs to be fitted Fleet wide at each next refit, and that was back in 2015/6 at least one refit ago 

I suppose anything is possible if you throw enough money at it. 

However,  if you were P&O management, how much money would you invest on a ship with only 6 or 7 years life left ?

[No pager thank you]

However much money is spent on Aurora and Arcadia, and whatever on, we can all rest assured that, according to P&O, 99.9% of customers will approve....