Just got an email outlining the "NEW" offerings

[ceilidh1]

7 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Only one person needs to opt-in for the $14.99 charge. That is nominal to me.

Where do you see that? Or do you mean that you will always be together so only one of you needs it? 

[Purplsmurf]

1 hour ago, CruizinSusan70 said:

They should have sent it out to everyone that is in the system that has a current reservation.

I agree. We sail in October. My parents received an email, but we didn’t. Luckily I’m on these boards to know what’s going on.

[Russ Lomas]

On 8/16/2023 at 2:48 PM, Steelers36 said:

That was an initial draft menu and not the same as appeared on the ships.

Thanks for sharing that info.  The person who provided it to me mentioned nothing about that.

[startedwithamouse]

This isn't real estate.  They can change things as stated in their T&C that YOU, the guest, agrees to in your cruise contract. 

 

These are cruise ships which sail under flag of convenience. 

 

 

1 hour ago, mcship said:

The complaint if not about the $$.   it is the principle.  If it were $0.01 it would be an issue.

I am in real estate.  If the seller fails to disclose a 20 dollar fee to the HOA, the seller has to pay.  Even if the HOA changed the fee the day before, and the seller had no say in the matter.  Because that is what was agreed to.  20 bucks on a half million is totally immaterial.  But it matters - in principle.   If the seller finds out during the process, and discloses, it gives the buyer an opportunity to cancel.  Yes, over 20 bucks (no, in reality nobody is going to do this, but could).  that is how a contract works.

Princess said the fare includes oceanNow and pizza from alfredos.  They absolutely can change that going forward.  but need to keep it for those who already booked.  it was part of the "contract"  (and yes, I know, their legal team has a billion words saying otherwise, so "legally" they can do it, I am speaking logically)

[startedwithamouse]

12 minutes ago, ceilidh1 said:

Where do you see that? Or do you mean that you will always be together so only one of you needs it? 

Well, we're really not drinking or eating alone. That wouldn't be a very fun vacation.

[B_A_H]

21 pages in 4 days - impressive.

 

I haven't sailed on Princess in ages but just booked the Sky out of Port Everglades for 1/27.  Yes, even after the horror of Princess's changes that have everyone's panties in a bunch.

 

Looking at the forest through the trees, you have to research cruises now based on total value.  Meaning, add everything (including the package upcharges) together and compare them.

 

In my case, Princess was the cheapest between the Sky and Celebrity Apex and surprising close to the MSC Seashore for near identical cruises sailing the same day out of South Florida.  I don't do RCI, I'm not partial to HAL, and I'd rather chew off an arm then sail Carnival so those were my choices for a 7 day Caribbean.

 

An inside cabin on the Sky with Premier for two people including port tax is $2,967.  The Apex with Always Included would have cost $3,409 and the Seascape with drinks and Wi-Fi would be $2,038.

 

Let's compare.  On the Sky, the drink package is at the highest level.  On Celebrity and especially MSC you'd have to buy up to get the higher tier.  On Celebrity that would be $420 and on MSC it would be $336.  MSC is actually higher than it seems because their premium level only covers 75% of what Princess and Celebrity consider premium so you're likely to have to pay the difference plus gratuity for better wines and liquor brands.

 

Premium Wi-Fi on Princess includes 4 devices per person at the highest level of bandwidth.  Celebrity and MSC include one per person at the lowest level.  The buy up on Celebrity is $210.00 and it's $70.00 on MSC but on MSC it's per device and once a device is activated it can't be switched to another device forcing people to pay double for two devices.

 

Gratuities aren't included on MSC and that's $196 additional.  

 

Premier includes two specialty dining meals which adds $216 on Celebrity and $180 on MSC.

 

Final tally apples to apples = Princess $2,967, Celebrity $4,255, and MSC $2,820.  And that doesn't factor in some of the other Premier benefits not available on the other two lines.  

 

Before everyone attacks me, I know this is far from scientific; it's meant as a single example. But for better or worse, it's what is necessary now to compare different cruises.  Maybe that's the point. 😉

 

I also know that people most impacted by Princess's changes are those that sail bare bones and buy what they consume on board a'la carte.  But as discussed throughout this thread, the cruise lines don't care about you anymore.  With demand as high as it is there's plenty of new blood willing to pay big bucks for an all inclusive experience.  On that, all inclusive is the hottest segment in the hotel industry with the three big brands falling all over themselves to buy or build all inclusive properties.  So for you bare bones folks it's only going to get worse.  The times they are a changing. 

 

[SCX22]

I’m going to throw out a very unpopular opinion…

 

I would like to see all cruise lines, not just Princess, go to direct booking only. Cruising is the last travel segments to not adapt to this.  The airlines deal with many more passengers and are able to handle it.  The airlines did this a long time ago when UX/UI was developed enough for bookings to be manipulated 100% by passengers online and allowed for and it decreased airfare prices because they no longer had to go through a middleman, the TA, who had to get paid commission.  It helped that IATA made electronic tickets compulsory so the airlines were able get rid of physical airline offices and the manpower required to run them.

 

Getting rid of the TAs means no more commission to be paid and would trickle down to lower cruise fares.  It would take a larger initial IT investment, but would pay off in the long run.

 

Only stating this because many are giving opinions on how they don’t want to pay more, but aren’t offering suggestions to cut costs.

[CruizinSusan70]

44 minutes ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

Correct. I have zero ocean cruises planned on anything under the Carnival, RCI or NCL fleet of ships, and I cancelled my Quebec City to NYC route. I am foregoing about $500 in FCC on Princess that I won't be able to use up before the sail by deadline, but it's no biggie as Princess has general been great to me over the years. Far more good than bad memories for me.

 

I'll round 2023 off with an expedition cruise to Antarctica (I do not classify this as an ocean cruise, but I suppose one could treat it like a scenic ocean cruise..).

 

2024 should be interesting. There are a lot of really cool places in the world to see!

It's been nice knowing you Mike.  Since you're no longer sailing on any of the big three cruise lines, I will infer that you won't be going on MSC either, but I'll also infer that you may be considering their new Explora division.  Enjoy your Antarctica cruise, I know my DH would love to go there someday, but sacrifices need to be made since I'm relegated to a scooter and Antarctica has thus been scratched off his bucket list.

 

[mcship]

1 hour ago, ldtr said:

One claim the same about many other things over the years. Nothing new. 

When NCL changed their FAS program, people who had bought under the old (3 dinners) got their 3 dinners.  New bookings got 2.  It is not difficult.

[caribill]

25 minutes ago, startedwithamouse said:

Only one person needs to opt-in for the $14.99 charge. That is nominal to me.

 

That is great if, for example, four people in a family are together and the designated orderer can place the order.

 

But remember that the app's promotion is that you can use it anywhere to order and have it delivered to where you are. So if one person is at a pool area, another in the casino, another at trivia and another watching entertainment in the atrium, only one of that family can actually place an order and have it delivered to where he/she is. The other three will have to do without until they get with the one person who is the designated orderer.

 

More likely scenario: all four will pay that nominal $14.99 charge.

[CruizinSusan70]

40 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

How about if Princess gives you $14.99 every time an order never appears or when it arrives is not what you ordered?

How about you walk to a bar and get your drink or walk to the IC and get a snack? This way, you don't have to wait and you know what you're getting.

[Russ Lomas]

7 hours ago, memoak said:

Just be prepared to see these types of changes on other mainstream lines. RCL is already prepping to change their pizza restaurant to pay per pie

May have been mentioned here, but that was a lot of pages to read and catch up on.

 

Michael Bayley formally posted today that RCCL will NOT make Sorrento's pizza an extra cost.  He mentioned 80% of guests would not pay extra for pizza and 25% would consider switching to other cruise lines if they did this.  Part of me wonders if RCCL did this as a marketing ploy after Princess' announcement...Look, we asked on a survey and guests said no.  We listen to our customers (other cruise lines do not).

 

Quote below:

"Pizza ! Pizza ! Everywhere ! A couple of weeks ago we conducted one of frequent small group guest surveys. As usual we asked questions on this n that ! Including customer thoughts on $ charges for Pizza ! The question was posted with the result that many emails and comments were sent !

The survey said 80 per cent of guests were opposed, 20 per cent of guests said they would still go for Pizza with a charge, 25 per cent of guests surveyed said they would consider other cruise lines. To calm all our Pizza lovers don’t worry we are not charging for Pizza."

[startedwithamouse]

11 minutes ago, B_A_H said:

21 pages in 4 days - impressive.

 

I haven't sailed on Princess in ages but just booked the Sky out of Port Everglades for 1/27.  Yes, even after the horror of Princess's changes that have everyone's panties in a bunch.

 

Looking at the forest through the trees, you have to research cruises now based on total value.  Meaning, add everything (including the package upcharges) together and compare them.

 

In my case, Princess was the cheapest between the Sky and Celebrity Apex and surprising close to the MSC Seashore for near identical cruises sailing the same day out of South Florida.  I don't do RCI, I'm not partial to HAL, and I'd rather chew off an arm then sail Carnival so those were my choices for a 7 day Caribbean.

 

An inside cabin on the Sky with Premier for two people including port tax is $2,967.  The Apex with Always Included would have cost $3,409 and the Seascape with drinks and Wi-Fi would be $2,038.

 

Let's compare.  On the Sky, the drink package is at the highest level.  On Celebrity and especially MSC you'd have to buy up to get the higher tier.  On Celebrity that would be $420 and on MSC it would be $336.  MSC is actually higher than it seems because their premium level only covers 75% of what Princess and Celebrity consider premium so you're likely to have to pay the difference plus gratuity for better wines and liquor brands.

 

Premium Wi-Fi on Princess includes 4 devices per person at the highest level of bandwidth.  Celebrity and MSC include one per person at the lowest level.  The buy up on Celebrity is $210.00 and it's $70.00 on MSC but on MSC it's per device and once a device is activated it can't be switched to another device forcing people to pay double for two devices.

 

Gratuities aren't included on MSC and that's $196 additional.  

 

Premier includes two specialty dining meals which adds $216 on Celebrity and $180 on MSC.

 

Final tally apples to apples = Princess $2,967, Celebrity $4,255, and MSC $2,820.  And that doesn't factor in some of the other Premier benefits not available on the other two lines.  

 

Before everyone attacks me, I know this is far from scientific; it's meant as a single example. But for better or worse, it's what is necessary now to compare different cruises.  Maybe that's the point. 😉

 

I also know that people most impacted by Princess's changes are those that sail bare bones and buy what they consume on board a'la carte.  But as discussed throughout this thread, the cruise lines don't care about you anymore.  With demand as high as it is there's plenty of new blood willing to pay big bucks for an all inclusive experience.  On that, all inclusive is the hottest segment in the hotel industry with the three big brands falling all over themselves to buy or build all inclusive properties.  So for you bare bones folks it's only going to get worse.  The times they are a changing. 

 

Very good points made.

 

The current crowd of gold cruisers and new crowd of blue status cruisers are both YOLO and FOMO. That equals more revenue for Princess.

 

 

[CruizinSusan70]

10 minutes ago, Russ Lomas said:

May have been mentioned here, but that was a lot of pages to read and catch up on.

 

Michael Bayley formally posted today that RCCL will NOT make Sorrento's pizza an extra cost.  He mentioned 80% of guests would not pay extra for pizza and 25% would consider switching to other cruise lines if they did this.  Part of me wonders if RCCL did this as a marketing ploy after Princess' announcement...Look, we asked on a survey and guests said no.  We listen to our customers (other cruise lines do not).

 

Quote below:

"Pizza ! Pizza ! Everywhere ! A couple of weeks ago we conducted one of frequent small group guest surveys. As usual we asked questions on this n that ! Including customer thoughts on $ charges for Pizza ! The question was posted with the result that many emails and comments were sent !

The survey said 80 per cent of guests were opposed, 20 per cent of guests said they would still go for Pizza with a charge, 25 per cent of guests surveyed said they would consider other cruise lines. To calm all our Pizza lovers don’t worry we are not charging for Pizza."

Have you ever tasted that Sorrento's garbage?  It's good enough for kids but anyone who has ever had good pizza at sea knows it's crap.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, mcship said:

When NCL changed their FAS program, people who had bought under the old (3 dinners) got their 3 dinners.  New bookings got 2.  It is not difficult.

Just to be clear did everyone  that purchased the FAS program prior to the change get the old term honored.  Basically they got the terms that were in place for the FAS at the time when they purchased it.

 

Or did everyone  that had booked a cruise prior to the change get to purchase the FAS after the change and get the pre change terms and prices?

 

[Russ Lomas]

Just now, CruizinSusan70 said:

Have you ever tasted that Sorrento's garbage?  It's good enough for kids but anyone who has ever had good pizza at sea knows it's crap.

I do not disagree with you.  I usually eat maybe 1 slice of Sorrento's pizza per cruise, if that.  Tastes about as good as a frozen one you buy from the store to me.  Just saying that RCCL is announcing that they will not change their free pizza to a paid pizza joint.

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, Russ Lomas said:

May have been mentioned here, but that was a lot of pages to read and catch up on.

 

Michael Bayley formally posted today that RCCL will NOT make Sorrento's pizza an extra cost.  He mentioned 80% of guests would not pay extra for pizza and 25% would consider switching to other cruise lines if they did this.  Part of me wonders if RCCL did this as a marketing ploy after Princess' announcement...Look, we asked on a survey and guests said no.  We listen to our customers (other cruise lines do not).

 

Quote below:

"Pizza ! Pizza ! Everywhere ! A couple of weeks ago we conducted one of frequent small group guest surveys. As usual we asked questions on this n that ! Including customer thoughts on $ charges for Pizza ! The question was posted with the result that many emails and comments were sent !

The survey said 80 per cent of guests were opposed, 20 per cent of guests said they would still go for Pizza with a charge, 25 per cent of guests surveyed said they would consider other cruise lines. To calm all our Pizza lovers don’t worry we are not charging for Pizza."

What is surprising is that anyone in a survey said they would still go there.

[caribill]

27 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

I’m going to throw out a very unpopular opinion…

 

I would like to see all cruise lines, not just Princess, go to direct booking only. Cruising is the last travel segments to not adapt to this.  The airlines deal with many more passengers and are able to handle it.  The airlines did this a long time ago when UX/UI was developed enough for bookings to be manipulated 100% by passengers online and allowed for and it decreased airfare prices because they no longer had to go through a middleman, the TA, who had to get paid commission.  It helped that IATA made electronic tickets compulsory so the airlines were able get rid of physical airline offices and the manpower required to run them.

 

Getting rid of the TAs means no more commission to be paid and would trickle down to lower cruise fares.  It would take a larger initial IT investment, but would pay off in the long run.

 

Only stating this because many are giving opinions on how they don’t want to pay more, but aren’t offering suggestions to cut costs.

 

If I call an airline, 99+% of the time I will reach an agent who thoroughly knows or can access quickly information about all procedures, flights, seating options, etc. It is extremely rare that the initial agent cannot fully answer any question I have without having to contact a supervisor. And the agent speaks a language I understand.

 

If I call Princess, I may reach someone who has no idea what I am even asking about much less how to get the correct answer to my question. And many calls end up being serviced in a foreign country with agents that have accents I can barely understand.

 

For Princess to go to 100% direct booking, they will have to greatly increase their staff count and fill all positions with people who have cruise industry experience including even actually having taken at least one cruise.

 

And the first time cruiser will have to contact a number of cruise lines to get answers to questions he/she may not even know to ask.

 

 

 

 

 

[Russ Lomas]

2 minutes ago, ldtr said:

What is surprising is that anyone in a survey said they would still go there.

I definitely would no pay 50 cent for a slice of Sorrento's pizza.

 

I know a lot of people love it for a late night snack, but I think that is mainly because every other food venue closes at 9 pm, so it is the only real choice between 9 pm and 6 am (other than a couple of premade sandwiches).

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

If I call an airline, 99+% of the time I will reach an agent who thoroughly knows or can access quickly information about all procedures, flights, seating options, etc. And the agent speaks a language I understand.

 

If I call Princess, I may reach someone who has no idea what I am even asking about much less how to get the correct answer to my question. And many calls end up being serviced in a foreign country with agents that have accents I can barely understand.

 

For Princess to go to 100% direct booking, they will have to greatly increase their staff count and fill all positions with people who have cruise industry experience including even actually having taken at least one cruise.

 

And the first time cruiser will have to contact a number of cruise lines to get answers to questions he/she may not even know to ask.

 

 

 

 

 

Who actually calls an airline these days? In many cases there is a fee for booking on the phone. Web site or app is where most of the booking take place.

[SCX22]

6 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

If I call an airline, 99+% of the time I will reach an agent who thoroughly knows or can access quickly information about all procedures, flights, seating options, etc. And the agent speaks a language I understand.

 

If I call Princess, I may reach someone who has no idea what I am even asking about much less how to get the correct answer to my question. And many calls end up being serviced in a foreign country with agents that have accents I can barely understand.

 

For Princess to go to 100% direct booking, they will have to greatly increase their staff count and fill all positions with people who have cruise industry experience including even actually having taken at least one cruise.

 

And the first time cruiser will have to contact a number of cruise lines to get answers to questions he/she may not even know to ask.

 

 

 

 

 

Forget talking to a live agent or being assisted by a human.   Make cruise bookings like the airline bookings where nearly all functions can be done online or through the app.  I’ve bypassed a few long rebooking lines by rebooking myself on other flights through the airline’s website.

 

Self assistance is the trend with travel, and cruise reservations have a long way to go.

[caribill]

7 hours ago, doghog said:

Paying more for less. Nothing new no matter where or what we have been doing for the last 3 plus years! 

 

True.

 

Yes, if I buy a roll of paper towels this month it may have less pieces than the roll I purchased last month.

 

But I can use all the pieces on that month-old roll without sending extra money to the manufacturer. I get to use what I paid for,

 

With the Princess changes, you do not get to use what you already paid for.

[caribill]

3 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

Forget talking to a live agent or being assisted by a human.   Make cruise bookings like the airline bookings where nearly all functions can be done online or through the app.  I’ve bypassed a few long rebooking lines by rebooking myself on other flights through the airline’s website.

 

Self assistance is the trend with travel, and cruise reservations have a long way to go.

 

You can 100% book your cruise online. But you need to know what you want: Itinerary, ship, type of cabin, optional packages, etc.

 

Quite different than knowing you want to book a flight from NYC to San Francisco on United. Even a novice flyer can figure that out online,

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, caribill said:

 

True.

 

Yes, if I buy a roll of paper towels this month it may have less pieces than the roll I purchased last month.

 

But I can use all the pieces on that month-old roll without sending extra money to the manufacturer. I get to use what I paid for,

 

With the Princess changes, you do not get to use what you already paid for.

Princess has been pretty consistent if you pay for something such as prepay gratuities prior to a price change, or you buy a package prior to a cruise, or internet, or even a coffee card. They honor the terms at the time you paid for those items, even if the prices and terms changed prior to your cruise.

 

Just as they honor the cruise for the price you paid for it.

 

What they and any other cruise line, or hotel, or airline does not guarantee is that optional products and services will remain at the same cost or even offered.

 

For example airlines change their onboad food offering and prices. they do not guarantee the prices will remain the same as when you booked the flight or if they will even be offered. Your fare and seat is locked in might not the minor related elements.

 

Similarly with hotels. You book a room, but the hotels restaurant might have raised prices or changed their menu or even have shutdown.  Your room rate is locked in, but not a lot else.

 

Would the complaints be the same if Princess decided to remove allow the Alfredos and put in a different specialty restaurant? Something that they have certainly done in the past.

Edited August 18, 2023 by ldtr

[PacnGoNow]

4 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

I have a dentist appt.  I will check it out after.

It might be sugary! 😂

Not good after a dentist visit.