Crew appreciation - when to pay

[Haljo1935]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

We try to book our HAL cruises with the early booking promo HIA which included the Crew Appreciation. I always check my invoices from HAL to make sure everything is there. I use a TA to book all my cruises because too many cruise line booking agents are inexperienced and IMO can't be trusted to tell you what is true on a booking.

 

Your invoice from HAL should look like this from our Volendam booking next year and it shows all of the early booking HIA amenities we are getting. If it is not here you are not getting it.

And notice only the first 6 lines reference HIA; tips (which you're receiving pre-paid) on line 7 do NOT reference HIA - they are added as a different promotion which HAL bundled w/HIA for the early booking bonus.

[Haljo1935]

2 hours ago, Tennessee Titan said:

If  you have a lot of OBC, wait and let the OBC pay it....

That's an option, but why should OP use OBC to pay for something they orinally had?

[Hobar]

17 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

So, in the end it IS about the cost.

Not sure what leads you to assume it is about cost especially as you know nothing about me. This is my first HAL cruise.  I am taking my mom and sister for a “girls’ trip” and opted for HAL because it will offer different options for our different tastes.  I’ve only cruised all-inclusive lines for the past 20 years so never had to deal with packages and add-ons. This is all new to me. We are booked in a Neptune Suite and it is far less cost than any cruise I have sailed on Seabourn, etc. But I know there are no surprises added to those other cruise lines, and while tips are included, it is my pleasure to tip extra. So, no, it is not the cost - it is the how this was handled.  But it apparently makes you feel better to make a false assumption.  

[ExpatBride]

6 hours ago, Hobar said:

So, no, it is not the cost - it is the how this was handled.  But it apparently makes you feel better to make a false assumption.  

I understand where you're coming from. HAL's screw up re: my pre-paid crew appreciation didn't bankrupt me nor was I going to remove it entirely to make a point.

 

But how they handled it, which made me feel like they that thought I was trying to scam them, was not acceptable. Apparently, producing an itemized invoice wasn't enough to remove doubt about what I'd booked. That combined with the amount of time I wasted trying to get it sorted out, and the majorly downgraded experience vs. the onboard experience pre-shutdown is enough to make me not sail with them again. 

[doone]

I total get the frustration here, but I also hear the same frustration from my friends who sail other lines.  You can change lines, but trust me, there will always be some type of frustration you will have to deal with.  I just ask the question, how do we correct this....get it resolved one way or the other.

[whirldcruzrs]

4 hours ago, doone said:

I total get the frustration here, but I also hear the same frustration from my friends who sail other lines.  You can change lines, but trust me, there will always be some type of frustration you will have to deal with.  I just ask the question, how do we correct this....get it resolved one way or the other.

What is the frustration on other lines, and which lines?  Isn’t a luxury line like the ones that the OP sails all-inclusive so that there would be no mistakes and misrepresentations as the OP and others on this thread have experienced?  

Edited September 4, 2023 by whirldcruzrs

[Mary229]

6 minutes ago, whirldcruzrs said:

What is the frustration on other lines, and which lines?  Isn’t a luxury line like the ones that the OP sails all-inclusive so that there would be no mistakes and misrepresentations as the OP and others on this thread have experienced?  

I have sailed luxury lines and they are quite capable of making mistakes and offending passengers.  

[whirldcruzrs]

19 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I have sailed luxury lines and they are quite capable of making mistakes and offending passengers.  

That’s unfortunate and sounds like your experience is different than that of the OP although the OP only reported being told one thing (a price) and then given another (a missing perk).  

[Toofarfromthesea]

20 hours ago, Hobar said:

Not sure what leads you to assume it is about cost especially as you know nothing about me. This is my first HAL cruise.  I am taking my mom and sister for a “girls’ trip” and opted for HAL because it will offer different options for our different tastes.  I’ve only cruised all-inclusive lines for the past 20 years so never had to deal with packages and add-ons. This is all new to me. We are booked in a Neptune Suite and it is far less cost than any cruise I have sailed on Seabourn, etc. But I know there are no surprises added to those other cruise lines, and while tips are included, it is my pleasure to tip extra. So, no, it is not the cost - it is the how this was handled.  But it apparently makes you feel better to make a false assumption.  

 

You misunderstood my point, which perhaps I didn't make clearly.  I'm not talking about the cost of booking a cruise.  I'm talking about the cost of the tips.  And the fact that the only solution that is acceptable to you is to be reimbursed for that cost.

 

Seasoned cruisers know certain things.  Among them are the only thing that matters is what the invoice says, and even then there can be issues.  Cruise representatives frequently get things wrong and verbal assurances from them aren't worth the paper they're written on.  And they cannot commit the cruise line verbally.  And pricing mistakes, particularly verbal ones, are not binding.

 

I don't say you are not owed an apology and maybe some kind of compensation.  They aren't obligated to give you anything, but maybe $100 OBC as purely a goodwill gesture on their part might be in order.  But the full amount of the tips because someone made a mistake does not seem reasonable to me.

[Ken the cruiser]

On 9/2/2023 at 1:38 PM, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

When did you book and when is the cruise?  I ask because generally the crew appreciation is NOT included in the HIA package unless it was some special promotion OR you booked far enough in advance to get the Advance Booking HIA, which generally means more than a year in advance.  For example, I just booked a Jan 2024 cruise and my HIA does not include crew appreciation.  I'm also looking at an October 2024 cruise, and if I book it before Sept 30th my HIA will not only include crew appreciation but also upgrade the drink package to elite and upgrade the wifi to Stream.  This is all published, and therefore knowable by you, even if you didn't actually know it.  But HAL agents can't change published packages.

 

And while you say it's not about the cost, it seems like the only solution that would satisfy you would be for HAL to assume the cost.  Or am I misreading it?  What do you want them to do besides apologize?

Thanks for explaining this. We always book our cruises as soon as the one we want becomes available. Then refare the booking if necessary if the price goes down later on prior to final payment. Now we know with HAL if we refare within a year of the sail date, we will have to include losing the HIA daily gratuity credit into the math to see if it is really worthwhile to do so.

 

We have found over the years, each cruise line has their own rules of engagement, and as one might image, they are never the same. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ken the cruiser

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

You misunderstood my point, which perhaps I didn't make clearly.  I'm not talking about the cost of booking a cruise.  I'm talking about the cost of the tips.  And the fact that the only solution that is acceptable to you is to be reimbursed for that cost.

 

Seasoned cruisers know certain things.  Among them are the only thing that matters is what the invoice says, and even then there can be issues.  Cruise representatives frequently get things wrong and verbal assurances from them aren't worth the paper they're written on.  And they cannot commit the cruise line verbally.  And pricing mistakes, particularly verbal ones, are not binding.

 

I don't say you are not owed an apology and maybe some kind of compensation.  They aren't obligated to give you anything, but maybe $100 OBC as purely a goodwill gesture on their part might be in order.  But the full amount of the tips because someone made a mistake does not seem reasonable to me.

You are correct, of course.    Reviewing the invoice from top to bottom contains almost all information you will need to sail.  It is obvious to me that people do not review that document as I can’t tell you how many times people are confused as to their HIA perks and it is all right there. 
 

I do understand the OP’s complaint and I think the OP should act fast and have the TA rebook it with the same suite.  We all know HAL is very generous in allowing us to re-fare. They can likely receive adequate compensation by doing so.

 

 I just re-fared the other day and was pleasantly surprised by additional perks. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

48 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Thanks for explaining this. We always book our cruises as soon as the one we want becomes available. Then refare the booking if necessary if the price goes down later on prior to final payment. Now we know with HAL if we refare within a year of the sail date, we will have to include losing the HIA daily gratuity credit into the math to see if it is really worthwhile to do so.

 

We have found over the years, each cruise line has their own rules of engagement, and as one might image, they are never the same. 

 

Two rules to live by in cruising:

 

1) always know exactly what a booking would include from authoritative sources (which do not include Cruise Critic or verbal statements from cruise line or TA employees), and

 

2) ALWAYS do the math.

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Two rules to live by in cruising:

 

1) always know exactly what a booking would include from authoritative sources (which do not include Cruise Critic or verbal statements from cruise line or TA employees), and

 

2) ALWAYS do the math.

Unfortunately sometimes the school of hard knocks plays a role in that learning curve, especially when you’re either first starting out on your cruising adventures or you’re trying a new cruise line after mainly spending most of your cruising $$$ with a different line. In our case we started with HAL back in 2012, and it took us 5 cruises with them before we found out we could refare a cruise if the price went down prior to final payment. I know, who knew!

 

Then after we booked a 40-day HAL cruise in 2019 that included 30 days circumnavigating Australia, the price of our VS went down and we contacted our TA, which is another story for a different time, who got us the cheaper price. But that rate reduction also included our deposit becoming nonrefundable. A month later, but a good 2-3 months before final payment, the price went down another $3500! But when we went to refare our booking again, HAL told our TA we couldn’t refare a booking that had a NRD. I know, who knew!

 

But since then we have also cruised a lot with Celebrity and Princess, and recently a few times with NCL. You can see some of my Live From threads in my below expanded signature. But my point is from those early “school of hard knocks” lessons learned, we totally agree with your above 2 points.
 

However, I will also mentioned we have learned quite a few more of those “hidden” rules of engagement on the various cruise lines we book with right here on CC. But at the same time there is a well known phrase that has always played a key role when acquiring information here on CC, and that is trust but verify. 😁

Edited September 4, 2023 by Ken the cruiser

[Mary229]

@Ken the cruiser  I figured out a lot on my own but my real break throughs came when I started visiting cruise critic. It was not so much a single piece of advice but a way of thinking 

[whirldcruzrs]

31 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Unfortunately sometimes the school of hard knocks plays a role in that learning curve, especially when you’re either first starting out on your cruising adventures or you’re trying a new cruise line after mainly spending most of your cruising $$$ with a different line. In our case we started with HAL back in 2012, and it took us 5 cruises with them before we found out we could refare a cruise if the price went down prior to final payment. I know, who knew!

 

Then after we booked a 40-day HAL cruise in 2019 that included 30 days circumnavigating Australia, the price of our VS went down and we contacted our TA, which is another story for a different time, who got us the cheaper price. But that rate reduction also included our deposit becoming nonrefundable. A month later, but a good 2-3 months before final payment, the price went down another $3500! But when we went to refare our booking again, HAL told our TA we couldn’t refare a booking that had a NRD. I know, who knew!

 

But since then we have also cruised a lot with Celebrity and Princess, and recently a few times with NCL. You can see some of my Live From threads in my below expanded signature. But my point is from those early “school of hard knocks” lessons learned, we totally agree with your above 2 points.
 

However, I will also mentioned we have learned quite a few more of those “hidden” rules of engagement on the various cruise lines we book with right here on CC. But at the same time there is a well known phrase that has always played a key role when acquiring information here on CC, and that is trust but verify. 😁

Sounds like so much work when someone just wants to book a vacation.  Has anyone wondered why not just build the crew appreciation into the base price of the cruise since it will be added on anyway?  I suspect that HAL wants the base fare to seem low.  Can’t understand any other reasonable reason.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, whirldcruzrs said:

Sounds like so much work when someone just wants to book a vacation.  Has anyone wondered why not just build the crew appreciation into the base price of the cruise since it will be added on anyway?  I suspect that HAL wants the base fare to seem low.  Can’t understand any other reasonable reason.

My understanding it is a tax benefit to both the crew and the company to do it this way.  The tax laws governing maritime personnel are different than those onshore. There are a few good articles on the web explaining the system. 

[Ken the cruiser]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

@Ken the cruiser  I figured out a lot on my own but my real break throughs came when I started visiting cruise critic. It was not so much a single piece of advice but a way of thinking 

It’s amazing how one’s cruising perspective changes when they become fully retired and have the time and wherewithal to cruise as much as they would like.
 

Cruising can definitely become addictive which in turn can change your whole way of thinking when booking a cruise, starting with the planning process with a special emphasis on the details and knowing what’s what before contacting your TA or your favorite cruise line POC.
 

Heck, in our case we have our whole 2026 cruising schedule planned out. We also just moved Celebrity down to #4 on our goto list (mostly because of $$$ and boring itineraries) and moved HAL up to #2 behind Princess. We’re just waiting now for the appropriate itineraries to appear on one or more of our top 4 cruise lines we book with. BTW that’s why you’ve been seeing my posts lately here on the HAL forum. So much to learn about HAL’s new terms of engagement since our last HAL cruise in 2019.

 

Does this mean we’re cruisaholics! 😂

 

BTW @Hobar I noticed you’ve spent most of your time cruising with Seabourn where their rules were relatively simple, or that’s the way it seemed when we booked an Antarctica cruise in Nov 2021 after the restart (which they cancelled) followed by a July 2022 Med B2B cruise, they subsequently privately charted the first leg of. Needless to say, that’s the last time we book a cruise with Seabourn.
 

In any event, here’s hoping you have a great time on your upcoming HAL cruise!!
 

[Hobar]

30 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

BTW @Hobar I noticed you’ve spent most of your time cruising with Seabourn where their rules were relatively simple, or that’s the way it seemed when we booked an Antarctica cruise in Nov 2021 after the restart (which they cancelled) followed by a July 2022 Med B2B cruise, they subsequently privately charted the first leg of. Needless to say, that’s the last time we book a cruise with Seabourn.
 

In any event, here’s hoping you have a great time on your upcoming HAL cruise!!
 

@Ken the cruiser you are very kind.  I am very much looking forward to HAL since it will be with my mom and sister.  We chose HAL for the many different venues offered, although it was also because my mom has mobility issues so needed an itinerary where embarkation and disembarkation port was one where we can drive to / from to avoid having my mom fly and stay in hotel before/after.  

My husband and I were booked on a Seabourn cruise this past spring for 24 days on the Venture that was cancelled due to a stabilizer issue forcing the ship into dry dock, so I understand your disappointment, although the reason ours was cancelled is more understandable than being cancelled for a charter, but also you had two cruises cancelled. That is certainly a good reason to avoid a cruise line.

We have rebooked the same ship to Antarctica end of this year, now that the stabilizers are repaired.

I certainly can see the bad taste your cancelled cruise left due to the reason.  In any event, I am looking forward to having a blast in March 2024 when we sail on HAL.  (I do think the problems I had with the HAL booking was because I saw the cruise that most suited my mom and booked it direct with HAL rather than my TA who always does my Seabourn, so lesson learned.).  Thank you for your good wishes.  (Don’t give up on Seabourn, but I certainly understand if you do.)

Edited September 5, 2023 by Hobar

[Toofarfromthesea]

47 minutes ago, whirldcruzrs said:

Sounds like so much work when someone just wants to book a vacation.  Has anyone wondered why not just build the crew appreciation into the base price of the cruise since it will be added on anyway?  I suspect that HAL wants the base fare to seem low.  Can’t understand any other reasonable reason.

 

In some of the crew's home countries I've heard that tip income is taxed at a lower level than wage income.

 

IAC, there really are only 2 things to be aware of, are tips included in the base or promotional price or not.  If they are, done.  If they are not, they are an easily knowable number and you can just add them to your base price to get an adjusted base fare. 

[Ken the cruiser]

4 minutes ago, Hobar said:

@Ken the cruiser you are very kind.  I am very much looking forward to HAL since it will be with my mom and sister.  We chose HAL for the many different venues offered, although it was also because my mom has mobility issues so wanted to be have embarkation and disembarkation port where we can drive so as to not have my mom fly and stay in hotel before/after.  My husband and I were booked on a cruise this past spring for 24 days on the Venture that was cancelled due to a stabilizer issue forcing the ship into dry dock, but have rebooked same ship to Antarctica end of this year. I certainly can see the bad taste your cancelled cruise left due to the reason.  In any event, I am looking forward to having a blast in March 2024 when we sail on HAL.  (I do think the problems I had with the HAL booking was because I saw the cruise that most suited my mom and booked it direct with HAL rather than my TA who always does my Seabourn, so lesson learned.).  Thank you for your good wishes.  (Don’t give up on Seabourn, but I certainly understand if you do.)

Unfortunately, there was one other issue with Seabourn that we didn’t realize until after we had booked the Med B2B and did some research, to include asking folks on the Seabourn forum. My DW has to eat early for medical reasons, ideally starting dinner sometime between 5 and 6 pm. Unfortunately on Seabourn the MDR from what we learned doesn’t open until much later.
 

But there was a silver lining to the Med cruise cancellation, we booked a B3B on a Princess Med cruise in a CC mini-suite for half the price in a great location that also turned out to be the same B3B they filmed the New Love Boat season 1 on. 😁

[Haljo1935]

On 9/4/2023 at 7:27 PM, whirldcruzrs said:

Sounds like so much work when someone just wants to book a vacation.  Has anyone wondered why not just build the crew appreciation into the base price of the cruise since it will be added on anyway?  I suspect that HAL wants the base fare to seem low.  Can’t understand any other reasonable reason.

Not necessarily  - I suspect the fact that tipping is very much a North American "thing" is a contributing factor given passengers are international. There are likely passengers from areas that don't agree with the practice of tipping and have them removed that would not sail if they couldn't remove them. Build tips in as part of the base fare and they can't be removed.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Haljo1935