When ‘Free at Sea’ is not Free at At Sea

[RocketMan275]

1 minute ago, graphicguy said:

OP...you sure you have Free at Sea?  IF so, you need to go to Customer Service and show them how you were charged for drinks.

 

As far as where you sailed, didn't you originate in Barcelona?  I know the Epic sailed from Barcelona on Sept 24.

 

Something's not adding up here.

If op isn't charged for drinks, there's no way to charge OP with the VAT which is a percentage based upon the amount.  One wonders if 

[UKstages]

39 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

Many would like to insititute a VAT here in the US so our government could have more of our money. 

 

VAT... so misunderstood.

 

it  doesn't work anything like that. in the first place, different parties to the transaction pony up part of the VAT... imagine a merchant in the USA having to pay part of your sales tax!

 

most importantly, VAT is a replacement for sales taxes, not an addition to sales taxes. 

 

44 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

None of this VAT goes to the cruise line...

 

correct.

 

44 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

it all goes to the European Union.

 

incorrect.

[CambsCruiser82]

Also, VAT on drinks is 10% isn’t it? This shows the VAT was charged at %20

[Asawi]

45 minutes ago, CambsCruiser82 said:

Also, VAT on drinks is 10% isn’t it? This shows the VAT was charged at %20

OP isn't in Spain. French VAT on alcohol is 20%. The first I hear about VAT being charged in France though.

[Nixxon]

Since the cruise starts from France, my sad conclusion would be that the French have joined the Spaniards. The VAT for alcoholic beverages sold in French restaurants is 20%. I would assume that the rate of 10% (which is applied for anything except alcohol in restaurants sold for immediate consumption) is applied for the gratuity as it is added automatically. In this case it wouldn’t be viewed as an actual gratuity by the authorities. 
 

The bill presented cannot be FAS, as others have pointed out as well. If any VAT would be applied, it would normally applied to the purchase value of the package. 
 

(Spain has three VAT tiers. 21%, 10% and 4%.)

Edited September 27, 2023 by Nixxon
Clarification

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

 

VAT... so misunderstood.

 

it  doesn't work anything like that. in the first place, different parties to the transaction pony up part of the VAT... imagine a merchant in the USA having to pay part of your sales tax!

 

most importantly, VAT is a replacement for sales taxes, not an addition to sales taxes. 

 

No, different parties pay a tax based upon their contribution to the value.  If a party buys something at $100 and sells it for $150, then the VAT is applied to the increase, ie, $50.  So each party at each step pays VAT according to their contribution, they do not pay VAT on a downstream increase.

VAT isn't necessarily a substitute for a sales tax although it could be.  The fear is that you'll get to pay a sales tax which is on the sale price plus a VAT on the increase of the last party.

And, yes, ultimately the totality of the VAT goes to the implementing government, ie, the EU in this case.

[KeithJenner]

15 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

And, yes, ultimately the totality of the VAT goes to the implementing government, ie, the EU in this case.

The implementing government will be France, not the EU, The VAT goes to them.

[RocketMan275]

4 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

The implementing government will be France, not the EU, The VAT goes to them.

OK, Fine, it doesn't matter which government it goes to.  France is a government.  The EU is a government.  It is just another tax.

[KeithJenner]

2 hours ago, UKstages said:

 

VAT... so misunderstood.

 

it  doesn't work anything like that. in the first place, different parties to the transaction pony up part of the VAT... imagine a merchant in the USA having to pay part of your sales tax!

The merchants don’t pay the tax. Ultimately it is all paid by the final consumer. The tax gets paid but also reclaimed throughout the process until it gets to the end customer who pays the full amount without being able to reclaim it (assuming that they are residents of the country where it is implemented).

[laudergayle]

My guess…VAT, whether in Spain, Italy, France, for drinks consumed onboard a cruise ship is not new.  What’s new is NCL passing this tax/cost onto the cruiser.

 

For NCL it’s a Win/win.  NCL pays less and if you don’t fancy paying the tax…you drink less.

 

Short-sighted IMO as this is not how you retain guests.  Unless, of course, other cruise lines follow suite.

[IAcruising]

7 minutes ago, laudergayle said:

My guess…VAT, whether in Spain, Italy, France, for drinks consumed onboard a cruise ship is not new.  What’s new is NCL passing this tax/cost onto the cruiser.

 

 

I'm placing my bet on your "guess".  And would also "guess" that other lines will soon follow suit.

 

[graphicguy]

My guess is OP doesn’t have FAS to begin with.  So, in answer to the title of the thread….FAS isn’t free if you don’t include it!

[IAcruising]

6 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

My guess is OP doesn’t have FAS to begin with.  So, in answer to the title of the thread….FAS isn’t free if you don’t include it!

 

I would like to see a response from the OP. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a paper receipt for a FAS drink since I was on the Sun in 2015.

 

[BirdTravels]

8 hours ago, PollyMurg said:

Port taxes are now being added. This is on our cruise that left Marseille on Monday.

No prior warning. Many unhappy sailers. Never saw guest service queues like this ☹️

 

Pretty old news that everyone knows about already. 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, IAcruising said:

 

I would like to see a response from the OP. Thinking about it, I haven't seen a paper receipt for a FAS drink since I was on the Sun in 2015.

 

Good point.  It’s been awhile since I’ve seen a FAS receipt, too!

 

Thinking the OP does not have Free at Sea, which makes this whole thread moot!

Edited September 28, 2023 by graphicguy

[dbrown84]

looking at the receipt again, the OP is also charged the normal 20% gratuities on these drinks, which would be charged whether in any port or at see for non drink package drinks.  This clearly indicates that these drinks were not part of the FAS drink package since the gratuities would have been paid with the cruise fare.  So, the OP could start have a beef over the taxes charged, but this is not a FAS is not free thread.....

Edited September 28, 2023 by dbrown84

[laudergayle]

53 minutes ago, dbrown84 said:

looking at the receipt again, the OP is also charged the normal 20% gratuities on these drinks, which would be charged whether in any port or at see for non drink package drinks.  This clearly indicates that these drinks were not part of the FAS drink package since the gratuities would have been paid with the cruise fare.  So, the OP could start have a beef over the taxes charged, but this is not a FAS is not free thread.....

Lol.  Ok.  @graphicguy in just a few days YOU can report all about taxes, VAT, etc. as you begin/enjoy/indulge on your EPIC TA cruise.  We’re watching 😃

[graphicguy]

14 minutes ago, laudergayle said:

Lol.  Ok.  @graphicguy in just a few days YOU can report all about taxes, VAT, etc. as you begin/enjoy/indulge on your EPIC TA cruise.  We’re watching 😃

Kinda got a good feel on what to expect.  Barcelona port and waters, expect VAT on my drinks.  Should be good elsewhere (France, Italy)!

 

I don’t think the OP had FAS.  So, not sure s/he has a valid claim!

 

Will report back next week!

Edited September 28, 2023 by graphicguy

[PollyMurg]

Good morning from Salerno

For clarity, we have got the Free At Sea package. I am using the free minutes from my 150 minutes free Wi-Fi to send this ☺️

We are booked on the Transatlantic cruise on Prima out of Barcelona in November so we are aware of the port taxes in Spanish waters.

This cruise from Marseille was only recently booked and we checked and checked again that there would be no more additional costs as our budget is super tight.

Our first drinks on the ship were around 5pm. There was nothing on the bar indicating the additional port taxes. We got to our room and put on our on line account to see we already had charges to our account. We went to Guest Services and soon realised by the lengthy queue that there was a ‘problem’!

When we went to the bar for more drinks there was A4 signs advising of the charge and we are now given receipts after each drink.

Also on the first two Freestyle Daily’s this additional charge was called European  Value Added Tax but from Day 3 it has changed to European French Value Added Tax.

We have booked two meals in the Specialty Dining and have asked if this will now incur an additional charge but haven’t had a definitive answer. I will let you know!

 

Yesterday we chatted to guests who were sailing on Celebrity Beyond and they haven’t had this additional charge added to their purchases.

 

 

 

[Asawi]

Thank you @PollyMurg for the update! PLEASE come back later with more reports. Id your WiFi minutes are getting low, come back when you're on free WiFi!

Some things I want to know:

How is it working in Italy?
Is the VAT on soft drinks as well (I see you have a Starbucks. Did you get VAT on that?)
How about speciality dinner? 

 

Everyone else: There has been much talk about the why there is a charge for drinks if you have FAS. Well, as I think someone mentioned briefly before, they need to ring in an amount to get the VAT calculated correctly. NCL's system the removes that amount before the charge gets to the onboard account. 

 

 

[cerireeves]

We're being charged 20%  for the whole cruise - including our 'day at sea' - wasn't explained when we booked and differing stories from staff and at guest services! We've booked a tel aviv to Rome in November and no one can tell us if this will apply or for how many days!

 

And - our days ashore are being chopped back, which means we only have time to walk around port, today for example - we were going to pompeii - but as only here 9:30-1:30 that's off! 

[KeithJenner]

37 minutes ago, cerireeves said:

We're being charged 20%  for the whole cruise - including our 'day at sea' - wasn't explained when we booked and differing stories from staff and at guest services! We've booked a tel aviv to Rome in November and no one can tell us if this will apply or for how many days!

 

On a Rome to Tel Aviv cruise you certainly won’t be charged for the whole of the cruise. That only happens if the cruise doesn’t leave the EU, which is impossible on an itinerary that ends outside the EU.

 

You may be charged whilst in some ports, but they haven’t been charging in Italy or Greece recently, so you should be ok there at least.

[cerireeves]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

On a Rome to Tel Aviv cruise you certainly won’t be charged for the whole of the cruise. That only happens if the cruise doesn’t leave the EU, which is impossible on an itinerary that ends outside the EU.

 

You may be charged whilst in some ports, but they haven’t been charging in Italy or Greece recently, so you should be ok there at least.

But we're in Italy now! 

To confirm speciality dining only charged vat on the drinks. Service charge is 22 a day on this one. Being refunded 308 between us for that.

[Capitan Obvious]

5 hours ago, PollyMurg said:

For clarity, we have got the Free At Sea package. I am using the free minutes from my 150 minutes free Wi-Fi to send this ☺️

 

That is also inconsistent. On NCL, access to Cruise Critic is open and free to everyone...you don't have to use any of your Wi-Fi for Cruise Critic. There are a handful of sites that NCL allows you to visit without using your minutes. The Internet Cafe Manager can fill you in on the current listing.

[Asawi]

7 minutes ago, Capitan Obvious said:

 

That is also inconsistent. On NCL, access to Cruise Critic is open and free to everyone...you don't have to use any of your Wi-Fi for Cruise Critic. There are a handful of sites that NCL allows you to visit without using your minutes. The Internet Cafe Manager can fill you in on the current listing.

Have you tried using the boards on the free WiFi? I'm not saying it can't be done, but I sure didn't manage it on my recent Star cruise. Surfing around Cruise Critic's other parts - fine!
I don't think they are keen on having us chatting on forums without using minutes. Just a guess though.