Live from Vista—Montreal to Miami

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, DrKoob said:

Oceania is owned by NCL

No. Oceania is owned by NCLH, which owns Oceania, NCL and Regent Seven Seas.

 

Except for a brief period immediately after Oceania was absorbed by NCLH, the CEOs of NCLH have been "Oceania people", most notably Frank Del Rio, the co-founder of Oceania, and currently Harry Sommer who was a long time FDR disciple.

[WayneLaR]

I'd like to thank DrKoob for doing this thread.  II thought he was very fair and balanced with his reports and commentary.  I learned a lot about what to expect for our first O cruise in a couple weeks. 

 

The time and effort DrKoob put into this is very much appreciated!  Thank you!

[Kentishincanada]

Thank you so much Dr.Koob.  I have been avidly following your posts with the comparisons to VO.  I agree the food on VO has taking quite a fall since our first cruise with them in 2016 to our last in 2022.  However, we love the openness of the ships, the wonderful spa and the Nespresso machine.  We have asked for mattress toppers and they do make the beds tolerable.  We also enjoy the VO lectures.  It is surely time for us to try O and we will now do so armed with your experiences.

 

Again, thank you.

[babysteps]

The elevators on the R ships can also get a bit tied up. I generally don't take the elevator. On an R ship, I generally get to whichever floor with or a little before the spouse who takes the elevator. On an O  class ship, if I'm going from lobby level to Baristas then the spouse will generally get to the top a little faster than me.

 

Due to the number of elevators, having even 1 out of service can create a bit of a shortage. The last time we were on an O class, one of the elevators was out of service for the first few days - it wasn't terrible but we did all celebrate when it came back into service!

 

This may come down to cruise line category - many mass market ships have folks report about elevator waits on a regular basis. I'm assuming luxury lines with more space per passenger also have fewer elevator issues/delays than premium or mass market lines.

 

I haven't been on V, have friends who have and most love the experience but some won't go back due to back office billing policies or issues. V does seem to cost a bit more than O on an apples-to-apples basis when I've checked.  @DrKoob were those possibly Canadian$ prices for O and US$ for V? At any rate, part of what you get for that may be shorter waits at the elevator on V!

[basor]

6 minutes ago, babysteps said:

The elevators on the R ships can also get a bit tied up. I generally don't take the elevator. On an R ship, I generally get to whichever floor with or a little before the spouse who takes the elevator. On an O  class ship, if I'm going from lobby level to Baristas then the spouse will generally get to the top a little faster than me.

 

Due to the number of elevators, having even 1 out of service can create a bit of a shortage. The last time we were on an O class, one of the elevators was out of service for the first few days - it wasn't terrible but we did all celebrate when it came back into service!

 

This may come down to cruise line category - many mass market ships have folks report about elevator waits on a regular basis. I'm assuming luxury lines with more space per passenger also have fewer elevator issues/delays than premium or mass market lines.

 

I haven't been on V, have friends who have and most love the experience but some won't go back due to back office billing policies or issues. V does seem to cost a bit more than O on an apples-to-apples basis when I've checked.  @DrKoob were those possibly Canadian$ prices for O and US$ for V? At any rate, part of what you get for that may be shorter waits at the elevator on V!

As far as I can tell, the issue with the elevators on Vista is they now have a sensor that stops the elevator from working if too many people try to squeeze in..  Then a voice comes on asking the last people to get off and if they refuse, it causes the elevator to stop working,  It then takes awhile for the elevator to cycle back to working....happened several times on the elevator on deck 4 with many people coming back from excursions and on deck 5 when an activity lets out in the Vista lounge.... you will see a white circle with a red line through it to let you know that the elevator is not working due to overload.

[ORV]

Just one small point of order. Oceania has ALWAYS had an older clientele. I've been cruising on them since 2009 and that has always been the case. Historically I've been one of the younger people on board, but now that I'm on Medicare that's not always the case. Scooters, walkers and wheelchairs have always been very common on Oceania. Your cruise wasn't an outlier in this respect. Now, there are certain itineraries that will skew younger, such as Europe in the Summer. 

 

It really is one of their biggest obstacles for future growth. 

 

Also, just an FYI, before they were part of NCHL there was no free internet. But then again neither was Celebrity free for internet in those years. Many of us are ok with the small steps. 

 

Thanks for your review. Glad overall you liked it enough to book again. There are some of us that will chose Oceania over others due to the loyalty perks. They get pretty good after 10 or so cruises with them. 

[shepherd really]

53 minutes ago, ORV said:

It really is one of their biggest obstacles for future growth. 

 

There are always new old people. They (actually we) are like Fritos, time keeps making more.

[DrKoob]

6 hours ago, shepherd really said:

No, it was in my post, so I said that.  What an odd question.  Also, your passive aggression is noted.  Bye.

I really didn't want to be passive-aggressive but the CC bot kept stopping me from saying what I really wanted to say. I wanted to say....(oops–tried five times, won't put language like that through). 

[DrKoob]

2 hours ago, babysteps said:

I haven't been on V, have friends who have and most love the experience but some won't go back due to back office billing policies or issues. V does seem to cost a bit more than O on an apples-to-apples basis when I've checked.  @DrKoob were those possibly Canadian$ prices for O and US$ for V? At any rate, part of what you get for that may be shorter waits at the elevator on V!

I promise, I am not that stupid.

[DrKoob]

1 hour ago, ORV said:

Thanks for your review. Glad overall you liked it enough to book again. There are some of us that will chose Oceania over others due to the loyalty perks. They get pretty good after 10 or so cruises with them. 

That's good to know. Sadly, not sure I have 10 cruises left to go. 

[DrKoob]

5 hours ago, basor said:

We remained onboard Vista for the cruise through the Panama Canal so can only report on WIFI on this cruise/ship.  We have had no issues with using 2 accounts and I have checked with several other friends and no one has experienced any problems.  I was up in the Internet lounge a few times to print off some things and people were coming in claiming they could not make the 2 accounts work but they had not set up 2 accounts so that was their issue.  Hopefully those people not finding the WIFI working as planned will be able to resolve by going to the IT person who can see if they can fix their problem.

But wouldn't it just be simpler to just have it be free to everyone...all the time? No accounts. Just do it the way most cruise lines (and now some airlines) are doing it. 

[DrKoob]

4 hours ago, njhorseman said:

No. Oceania is owned by NCLH, which owns Oceania, NCL and Regent Seven Seas.

 

Except for a brief period immediately after Oceania was absorbed by NCLH, the CEOs of NCLH have been "Oceania people", most notably Frank Del Rio, the co-founder of Oceania, and currently Harry Sommer who was a long time FDR disciple.

You know I used to say that about HAL. They were owned by CCL not Carnival. But then they slowly but surely put Carnival Execs into the CEOships of the other cruise lines. HAL's quality has fallen way off after the new guy (who used to be an Carnival Cruise Line exec). Princess is going down hill fast. The same was true when Celebrity became RCLisized (I know, that not a word). NCL is known as the king of nickel and diming and it is drifting down. We finished the cruise with a balance of $356 for a variety of things. When we finished our Viking cruise last fall we had a balance of less than $50. Why, because so much more is included. I want a cruise line that has ships in the 800-1200 pax ships and includes everything.

[basor]

1 minute ago, DrKoob said:

But wouldn't it just be simpler to just have it be free to everyone...all the time? No accounts. Just do it the way most cruise lines (and now some airlines) are doing it. 

I am afraid I have yet to sail on a cruise line where it is free (other than Oceania)  O does offer it free to everyone now but I believe you want to be able to have many devices online at the same time.  The mass markets charge or include in an upgrade package...I understand that you enjoy Viking and it appears they have free WIFI .  Since it is not that important for us, it is not high on our list to check out on an airline or cruise line.  As you said in your excellent review, different amenities are important to different people and so can choose the airline, cruise line, hotel, etc. that best matches their needs.

[DrKoob]

Just now, basor said:

I am afraid I have yet to sail on a cruise line where it is free (other than Oceania)  O does offer it free to everyone now but I believe you want to be able to have many devices online at the same time.  The mass markets charge or include in an upgrade package...I understand that you enjoy Viking and it appears they have free WIFI .  Since it is not that important for us, it is not high on our list to check out on an airline or cruise line.  As you said in your excellent review, different amenities are important to different people and so can choose the airline, cruise line, hotel, etc. that best matches their needs.

On Viking we were online instantly at no extra charge on as many devices as we could bring. 

[basor]

5 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

You know I used to say that about HAL. They were owned by CCL not Carnival. But then they slowly but surely put Carnival Execs into the CEOships of the other cruise lines. HAL's quality has fallen way off after the new guy (who used to be an Carnival Cruise Line exec). Princess is going down hill fast. The same was true when Celebrity became RCLisized (I know, that not a word). NCL is known as the king of nickel and diming and it is drifting down. We finished the cruise with a balance of $356 for a variety of things. When we finished our Viking cruise last fall we had a balance of less than $50. Why, because so much more is included. I want a cruise line that has ships in the 800-1200 pax ships and includes everything.

You should try Seabourn (but their free WIFI includes only one device so that won't work), Silversea (oops only 1 device)  and Regent (oops only 1 device)- never mind

[basor]

5 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

On Viking we were online instantly at no extra charge on as many devices as we could bring. 

Thank you - so Viking does but you indicated most cruise lines and I am not finding any others that offer multi devices without an up charge

[Waltershipman]

26 minutes ago, basor said:

You should try Seabourn (but their free WIFI includes only one device so that won't work), Silversea (oops only 1 device)  and Regent (oops only 1 device)- never mind

Explora journeys is delightful 

[babysteps]

57 minutes ago, DrKoob said:

I promise, I am not that stupid.

Don't worry you come across as insightful, positive, and intelligent! 

 

Figured if you accessed prices from Canada.... No worries! Only other idea is if V offers loyalty pricing so looks lower to you than new V cruisers. 

 

Some explanation exists for the math fun! Until then happy dining, travels and cruising ☺ 

[ak1004]

4 hours ago, Vineyard View said:

I would suggest that from reading this blog, that it sounds like VO is a better fit for both of you, particularly when you travel with others. 
With all the issues you had I am surprised that you rebooked O again. I am thinking your major concerns will not have changed when you sail again. 
It is good to hear different perspectives. Thank you for sharing yours. If I remember correctly, your blog when you travelled on VO voiced a good number of concerns as well. I think there are likely no perfect cruises, and no travels without their blips and mishaps. 
 It sounds as if the food was your major winner with Oceania, but the issues (elevators and WiFi) will likely follow you on the next one that you booked, so it is good to know that going in. 

 

Not necessarily. Wifi now had 2 devices which is a major improvement. And Elevators issue - my understanding is that some of them were broken too many times, which is something that hopefully can be addressed, it's not a fundamental issue. 

 

Sometimes we can be critical of some issues and still like the cruise line overall. In fact, I would be very suspicious of a review that has only positives (or only negatives).

 

3 hours ago, DrKoob said:

Thank you for a perfect response. That's what you want, that's what I want. Internet access for us is HUGE! When you travel with a group, you need to know what's going on. 

 

Someone said that they could put up with anything except a bad bed. Well, I can put up with a bad bed for full internet access...different strokes. We are still looking for that "perfect cruise line." We had it for a very long time with Celebrity. We liked where they went, we loved the food, we loved the ships, etc. But what they have become (slick, cruise line marketing to 40 and 50 somethings and carrying less about loyalty) is not for us. Still looking. 

 

I notice from your avatar that you must have done a live-blog someplace along the line. You have the stickers Cruise Critic awards for that. Can you point me to one of yours so I can check it out?

 

The avatar has a badge "great review" which was awarded by CC for this post - the funny thing is that the post was just a link to someone else review, so I don't really think I deserve it.. I do have a blog and a forum, but they are not travel related..

 

I'm glad you booked another O cruise - actions speak louder than words!

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, DrKoob said:

You know I used to say that about HAL. They were owned by CCL not Carnival. But then they slowly but surely put Carnival Execs into the CEOships of the other cruise lines. HAL's quality has fallen way off after the new guy (who used to be an Carnival Cruise Line exec). Princess is going down hill fast. The same was true when Celebrity became RCLisized (I know, that not a word). NCL is known as the king of nickel and diming and it is drifting down. We finished the cruise with a balance of $356 for a variety of things. When we finished our Viking cruise last fall we had a balance of less than $50. Why, because so much more is included. I want a cruise line that has ships in the 800-1200 pax ships and includes everything.

My point is that you're blaming what you experienced on something that didn't happen. NCL execs didn't take over Oceania, it was the other way around.

 

Oceania executives took control of NCLH from very early on, not NCL executives. FDR took over as NCLH CEO fairly quickly. FDR then put Harry Sommer, one of his most trusted Oceania execs in as CEO of NCL, a position he held until FDR retired and Sommer was appointed CEO of NCLH. And of course FDR's son is now CEO of Oceania.

 

What happened at NCLH was in fact the exact opposite of what happened at Carnival Corp. and Royal Caribbean.

 

Oceania has never been an all inclusive or nearly all inclusive cruise line.  In the Prestige Cruise Holdings family it was Regent Seven Seas that was all inclusive. In fact Oceania just moved closer to all inclusive with the introduction of "simply MORE".  O has now moved closer to Viking Ocean's business model, not closer to NCL's business model.

 

It's fine if you prefer one business model over another, but you're blaming your dislike on something that didn't happen.

 

Personally I don't care for the "simply MORE" program. It's not a good value for us. We don't consume alcoholic beverages and don't want to feel forced into taking cruise line excursions because their price is built into the cruise fare. I refuse to pay for things I don't use, so I'll not likely book Oceania as long as this program is in place. Nor will I book Viking Ocean for the same reason.

I don't mind having a bill at the end for those things I may choose to buy rather than paying a base fare bloated with charges for things I won't use.

Edited October 22, 2023 by njhorseman

[DrKoob]

1 hour ago, basor said:

Thank you - so Viking does but you indicated most cruise lines and I am not finding any others that offer multi devices without an up charge

In the last five years we have sailed on Celebrity, Viking Ocean, Royal and Holland America. All have offered a free WiFi option that included unlimited devices. Every single one of them. In almost all these cases it was part of the cruiseline's Have It All program or Included or whatever Celebrity was calling theirs. Viking I am absolutely sure of with no special offer. On all river and ocean ships.

Edited October 22, 2023 by DrKoob

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, basor said:

Thank you - so Viking does but you indicated most cruise lines and I am not finding any others that offer multi devices without an up charge

Explora Journeys includes 3 devices per person!   Speaking of Explora 1, that ship has 8 elevators (two banks of 4) and each elevator holds up to 26 persons (they are the largest cruise ship elevators we have seen).  And that is on a ship with a maximum of 930 passengers!  On our 18 day EJ1 cruise, we never waited more than 10 seconds for an elevator (I kid you not) and it became a personal contest.

 

Hank

[Myrtle Ave. Mayhem]

27 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

My point is that you're blaming what you experienced on something that didn't happen. NCL execs didn't take over Oceania, it was the other way around.

 

Oceania executives took control of NCLH from very early on, not NCL executives. FDR took over as NCLH CEO fairly quickly. FDR then even put Harry Sommer, one of his most trusted Oceania execs, in as CEO of NCL, a position he held until FDR retired and Sommer was appointed CEO of NCLH. and of course FDR's son is now CEO of Oceania.

 

What happened at NCLH was in fact the exact opposite of what happened at Carnival Corp. and Royal Caribbean.

 

Oceania has never been an all inclusive or nearly all inclusive cruise line.  In the Prestige Cruise Holdings family it was Regent Seven Seas that was all inclusive. In fact Oceania just moved closer to all inclusive with the introduction of "simply MORE".  O has now moved closer to Viking Ocean's business model. 

 

It's fine if you prefer one business model over another, but you're blaming your dislike on something that didn't happen.

 

Personally I don't care for the "simply MORE" program. It's not a good value for us. We don't consume alcoholic beverages and don't want to feel forced into taking cruise line excursions because their price is built into the cruise fare. I refuse to pay for things I don't use, so I'll not likely book Oceania as long as this program is in place. Nor will I book Viking Ocean for the same reason.

I don't mind having a bill at the end for those things I may choose to buy rather than paying a base fare bloated with charges for things I won't use.

I understand your logic & it makes sense. What I'm about to say is simply my perspective based on my preferences & style of cruising. 

 

There is something tacky & unnerving about the constant drum beat of onboard revenue production experienced aboard  the mainstream lines like Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Carnival, ect. Actually, it's obnoxious & cheapens the cruise experience. Even the design of the new ships is revenue production focused. Forward & aft deck views are monetized into prime real estate. You don't see things like libraries, card rooms, promenade decks because this takes away from anything generating moo la, God forbid if someone is just relaxing in a public room. Walking from the forward show lounge through the casino, then the shops, before entering the dining room is case & point. On the mostly inclusive lines the ships are designed for passenger comfort & experience.

 

I also don't drink alcohol or use ship shore ex, but I'd rather pay the premium to sail a line(in my case Viking as my go-to) where I'm left to simply enjoy the ship. This creates a much more dignified onboard atmosphere. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Myrtle Ave. Mayhem

[ak1004]

56 minutes ago, Myrtle Ave. Mayhem said:

I understand your logic & it makes sense. What I'm about to say is simply my perspective based on my preferences & style of cruising. 

 

There is something tacky & unnerving about the constant drum beat of onboard revenue production experienced aboard  the mainstream lines like Princess, Holland America, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Carnival, ect. Actually, it's obnoxious & cheapens the cruise experience. Even the design of the new ships is revenue production focused. Forward & aft deck views are monetized into prime real estate. You don't see things like libraries, card rooms, promenade decks because this takes away from anything generating moo la, God forbid if someone is just relaxing in a public room. Walking from the forward show lounge through the casino, then the shops, before entering the dining room is case & point. On the mostly inclusive lines the ships are designed for passenger comfort & experience.

 

I also don't drink alcohol or use ship shore ex, but I'd rather pay the premium to sail a line(in my case Viking as my go-to) where I'm left to simply enjoy the ship. This creates a much more dignified onboard atmosphere. 

 

What's the main difference between lines like Celebrity/Princess and lines like Oceania/Silversea?

 

When they renovate the ships, Celebrity removes or reduces areas like libraries and art galleries and adds cabins instead. Oceania/Silversea do the opposite - add public areas.

[Vineyard View]

1 hour ago, ak1004 said:

 

Not necessarily. Wifi now had 2 devices which is a major improvement. And Elevators issue - my understanding is that some of them were broken too many times, which is something that hopefully can be addressed, it's not a fundamental issue. 

 

Sometimes we can be critical of some issues and still like the cruise line overall. In fact, I would be very suspicious of a review that has only positives (or only negatives).

 

Very good points. I cannot disagree with you! Thank you for pointing out the difference in pre Simply More WiFi that was experienced by OP. 
 

I am also always suspicious of an only positives review. I tend to discount them. I just felt that there were more negatives on the experience than positives, so that was where I was making the comment. 
I haven’t yet been on a trip, via land or sea, where there were unexpected frustrating situations.