Account charges post cruise

[Andy24v]

1 hour ago, Andy24v said:

Well why not just take the daily charges?

Further to that, if someone was using a fake card, linked presumably to a fake postal address, then it wouldn't matter if they charged at the end, daily or even every minute..

[david63]

1 hour ago, Megabear2 said:

Very good but surely in the wrong place, it should be at check in and if a debit card is produced the poster should be pointed out to the person.

Even that is too late and need to be pointed out well before arriving at the terminal - especially if the terminal is overseas. This should, in my opinion, be made clear on the booking confirmation, not that some would read it - but that is a different matter!

[david63]

33 minutes ago, Andy24v said:

Further to that, if someone was using a fake card, linked presumably to a fake postal address, then it wouldn't matter if they charged at the end, daily or even every minute..

Two points.

 

1. If the card worked and the cruise line got their money then it ceases to be the cruise line's problem.

2. If the card does not work then the cruise line become aware of the problem at an early stage and can take action.

[purplesea]

When I booked in online and registered my credit card, a debit of £1 was actioned to check the validity of the card. 

[david63]

7 minutes ago, purplesea said:

When I booked in online and registered my credit card, a debit of £1 was actioned to check the validity of the card. 

But that is only checking that the card is valid - not that you have sufficient funds and the £1 is only a pre authorisation that will roll off.

[zap99]

13 minutes ago, purplesea said:

When I booked in online and registered my credit card, a debit of £1 was actioned to check the validity of the card. 

When DW checks my credit card bill...... what's this pound for !!!!.🤣

[jeanlyon]

Interestingly for the first time ever I had holding authorisations on my Credit Card.  First of all there was the £1 when I registered it  That's fine, then every day the amounts we spent on board appeared in the "pending" part of my cc.  After the first week, the early ones disappeared and by the end of the cruise (19 nights), only the last 10 days were showing as pending.  Two days after we got back, the total bill went straight on to the card (not in pending) and the other amounts disappeared.

[davecttr]

With a credit card I would also ensure I had a sufficient credit limit.

[Snow Hill]

13 hours ago, david63 said:

One option for those in that position is to withdraw cash from their current account and pay that into their onboard account thus negating the pre authorisations.

 

As I understand it this is more to do with the way some banks operate rather than the way P&O operate and as I pointed out earlier P&O do warn passengers, both old, new and potential, about this.

I bought some petrol today paying at ADSA auto pump, message on screen said that a £100 hold would be put on my bank account. I filled my tank, took the receipt and left, I checked my bank account an hour later no hold on my account. So if ASDA can get banks to release half funds within an hour why can’t P&O do the same once they have received payment. I suspect the issue is with P&O and their tardiness is tell the respective bank that the payment has been received.Perhaps P&O need to speak to,ASDA, Tesco or Sainsbury’s who all operate the same system on how they release funds back to customers quickly. 

[pete14]

9 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

I bought some petrol today paying at ADSA auto pump, message on screen said that a £100 hold would be put on my bank account. I filled my tank, took the receipt and left, I checked my bank account an hour later no hold on my account. So if ASDA can get banks to release half funds within an hour why can’t P&O do the same once they have received payment. I suspect the issue is with P&O and their tardiness is tell the respective bank that the payment has been received.Perhaps P&O need to speak to,ASDA, Tesco or Sainsbury’s who all operate the same system on how they release funds back to customers quickly. 

That is certainly my experience when paying for petrol at the pump.
 

It would be interesting to know how widespread this issue is with P&O. Evidence on this thread so far is very thin - it has happened, but not many posters indicate it that has happened to them, at least with P&O.

I have recently registered my debit card (I choose not to have a credit card) for our upcoming cruise during the online check in process. Mind you, having already paid for internet and drinks package, I am not anticipating that at the end of the cruise, after OBC is taken off, there will be much left to pay. I hope there will be no similar problems to the one OP has experienced.

[david63]

10 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

I bought some petrol today paying at ADSA auto pump, message on screen said that a £100 hold would be put on my bank account. I filled my tank, took the receipt and left, I checked my bank account an hour later no hold on my account. So if ASDA can get banks to release half funds within an hour why can’t P&O do the same once they have received payment. I suspect the issue is with P&O and their tardiness is tell the respective bank that the payment has been received.Perhaps P&O need to speak to,ASDA, Tesco or Sainsbury’s who all operate the same system on how they release funds back to customers quickly. 

I don't profess to know how the banking system works (other than money goes out quicker than it comes in☹️) but if I was to make a guess about this issue it would be that when a charge is made against a card when there is a pre-authorisation then that charge can only be linked to one pre-authorisation and not, as in P&O's case, multiple pre-authorisations meaning that the passenger has to wait for the pre-authorisations to roll off in whatever timescale the bank operates. Obviously the banks are not going to change their systems just to accommodate P&O as this is probably an exception to the normal procedure.

 

The other option of making the charge daily is something that some (many?) passengers would not want for any number of reasons and really it comes down to the scale of the problem especially as more are becoming aware of it.

[Megabear2]

This may be of interest to those who want to know who is responsible for arranging the pre authorisation.  Although used in the USA it specifically refers to cruise lines.  It is the Visa protocols on pre authorisation.

 

 

In particular the following is a good explanation of how Visa see things working (my bold where it appears):

 

"Authorization reversals

Authorization reversals notify the issuer that all, or part, of a transaction has been cancelled and that the authorization hold should be removed and open to buy amounts may be adjusted.

When to use

To help ensure that cardholders have access to all of their available funds, merchants should process authorization reversals: •

 

Transaction not completed: Entire authorized amount must be reversed within 24 hours of the earlier of when the merchant became aware that that transaction would not be completed or the end of the authorization validity period. •

 

Completed transaction at a Vehicle Rental, Lodging or Cruise Line that included an Estimated Authorization and sum of the estimated authorization and any incrementals exceeds the fnal amount by more than 15%: (20% including tips for Taxicabs) the diference between the total authorized amount and the transaction amount must be reversed

 

Other completed transactions where estimated authorizations are allowed, if the sum of the estimated authorization and any incrementals exceeds the fnal amount: the diference between the authorized amount (or amounts) and the Transaction amount must be reversed within 24 hours of when the transaction is completed"

 

 

best-practices-authorization-and-reversal-processing.pdf

[jeanlyon]

16 hours ago, Snow Hill said:

I bought some petrol today paying at ADSA auto pump, message on screen said that a £100 hold would be put on my bank account. I filled my tank, took the receipt and left, I checked my bank account an hour later no hold on my account. So if ASDA can get banks to release half funds within an hour why can’t P&O do the same once they have received payment. I suspect the issue is with P&O and their tardiness is tell the respective bank that the payment has been received.Perhaps P&O need to speak to,ASDA, Tesco or Sainsbury’s who all operate the same system on how they release funds back to customers quickly. 

I did the sAme thing, and there was a £100 amount in my pending transactions as well as the full amount on my card.

[9265359]

6 hours ago, Megabear2 said:

This may be of interest to those who want to know who is responsible for arranging the pre authorisation.  Although used in the USA it specifically refers to cruise lines.  It is the Visa protocols on pre authorisation.

 

If that document is applicable to the debit card transactions on P&O, then P&O would seem to have messed up badly with their implementation of their system.

 

The document is clear that  - "Multiple standalone authorizations should not be processed for one payment transaction" - which is exactly what P&O seem to be doing, instead of using incremental authorisations which they should be - "Incremental authorizations can be used to increase the total amount authorized if the amount of the estimate/initial authorization is insufcient. An incremental authorization request may also be based on a revised estimate of what the cardholder may spend. Incremental authorizations do not replace the original authorization — they are additional to previously authorized amounts — the sum of all linked estimated and incremental authorizations represent the total amount authorized for a given transaction."

 

And as the document note - "If incremental authorizations are not properly coded, issuers may not be able to link associated authorizations, which may lead to cardholder frustration. Additionally, cardholder funds may be held in error."

[Megabear2]

3 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

If that document is applicable to the debit card transactions on P&O, then P&O would seem to have messed up badly with their implementation of their system.

 

The document is clear that  - "Multiple standalone authorizations should not be processed for one payment transaction" - which is exactly what P&O seem to be doing, instead of using incremental authorisations which they should be - "Incremental authorizations can be used to increase the total amount authorized if the amount of the estimate/initial authorization is insufcient. An incremental authorization request may also be based on a revised estimate of what the cardholder may spend. Incremental authorizations do not replace the original authorization — they are additional to previously authorized amounts — the sum of all linked estimated and incremental authorizations represent the total amount authorized for a given transaction."

 

And as the document note - "If incremental authorizations are not properly coded, issuers may not be able to link associated authorizations, which may lead to cardholder frustration. Additionally, cardholder funds may be held in error."

I read it that way too.  I am unsure if it applies to P&O but my assumption has always been all cruise lines would operate under the Visa regulations or similar.  Unfortunately I do not have sight of any for Mastercard but these Visa ones were first shown to me by RC after a mix up on Allure of the Seas with a double charge.  They apologised and wrote off both my bills by way of compensation - my bill is never very large so it was a cheap and easy thing for them to do it.

 

 

[jeanlyon]

All the daily authorisations on my cc disappeared and were replaced by the amount on the paper bill delivered to my cabin.

[S1971]

On 10/27/2023 at 10:00 AM, cbjroms said:

I first came across this issue in July when on Azura. Lodged a debit card when we embarked and aily holds were put onto it. On the last morning our onboard account was settled in full using the debit card which is what we expected. What we didnt expect was that the holds stayed in place for a month!

 

I spoke to the bank and the card issuer but couldnt get a clear answer as to how this situation (holds in place for a bill paid in full) was ethical. My conclusion is that it is down to the initiator of the hold (ie P&O) to cancel it or else it times-out after one month. So whilst P&O is able to automatically apply holds everyday it has not bothered to setup a similar auto-cancellation!

 

Exactly the same situation I was in (not P&O) though.

 

Within a hour after I disembarked my account was settled in full, yet they still had a holding  amount on my card which was significantly more than my total final bill.

 

After a couple of days the bank pointed out that there was nothing they could do until the deadline for return had passed which was shown on my account, effectively 14 days later, after that I could dispute the payment.

 

Money was returned on the 14th day, I fail to see why they need to hold monies when full payment has been made, unless of course the get interest on it??

 

Next time I'm going to open my account with cash just to see how that goes!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[9265359]

28 minutes ago, S1971 said:

I fail to see why they need to hold monies when full payment has been made, unless of course the get interest on it??

 

With a debit card it is the bank, not the retailer who is holding the pre-authorised money to ensure there is money there when the retailer comes asking for it.

 

Similarly with a credit card it is the card company who has deducted that amount from your authorised credit limit so the the pre-authorised money is money there when the retailer comes asking for it and it doesn't take you over the limit.

 

The issue that seems to be occurring with P&O is that it isn't following the rules and updating the prior day's authorisation with that day's spend, and then cancelling out that single authorisation with a settled bill at the end.

 

What it seems to be doing is if you were spending say £50 a day it is doing 'Day 1 authorisation £50', 'Day 2 authorisation £50', 'Day 3 authorisation £50', etc. so by the end of ten days has £500 authorised. BUT... then it takes the £500 as a separate transaction and just lets the ten £50 authorisations fall away when they reach their expiry date.

 

So P&O haven't benefitted from the £500 that was on hold after they took their £500, but the problem is that the customer doesn't have access to that £500 in their bank if they used a debit card or to spend on their credit card.

 

Now since most people use credit cards for onboard spend and most people have credit limits that this process wouldn't trouble them, so my guess would be that P&O have taken a cheap and easy shortcut 'that will do' implementation that doesn't impact 99.9% of customers, and for the 0.1% it does then P&O can ignore them or tell them it is the bank's issue not theirs.

[david63]

I think that it should be born in mind that the details posted above is American and I suspect that there are significant differences between the American banking procuresses and the UK ones.

[Canberra forever !]

23 minutes ago, 9265359 said:

 

With a debit card it is the bank, not the retailer who is holding the pre-authorised money to ensure there is money there when the retailer comes asking for it.

 

Similarly with a credit card it is the card company who has deducted that amount from your authorised credit limit so the the pre-authorised money is money there when the retailer comes asking for it and it doesn't take you over the limit.

 

The issue that seems to be occurring with P&O is that it isn't following the rules and updating the prior day's authorisation with that day's spend, and then cancelling out that single authorisation with a settled bill at the end.

 

What it seems to be doing is if you were spending say £50 a day it is doing 'Day 1 authorisation £50', 'Day 2 authorisation £50', 'Day 3 authorisation £50', etc. so by the end of ten days has £500 authorised. BUT... then it takes the £500 as a separate transaction and just lets the ten £50 authorisations fall away when they reach their expiry date.

 

So P&O haven't benefitted from the £500 that was on hold after they took their £500, but the problem is that the customer doesn't have access to that £500 in their bank if they used a debit card or to spend on their credit card.

 

Now since most people use credit cards for onboard spend and most people have credit limits that this process wouldn't trouble them, so my guess would be that P&O have taken a cheap and easy shortcut 'that will do' implementation that doesn't impact 99.9% of customers, and for the 0.1% it does then P&O can ignore them or tell them it is the bank's issue not theirs.

Thank you for all your responses, my son in laws account has had the 'pending' amount drop off but he has still sent a complaint email to p&o as several of his direct debits were returned because of this with the  resultant charges and a detrimental effect to his credit score! 

 

As P&O seem to be moving towards a younger demographic of passengers surely they need to realise that many young couples do not have surplus cash to cover these pending transactions... my son in law and my daughter had budgeted carefully for their trip and stayed within their means, however with p&o putting a 'hold' of more than double their spending on their bank account they were left in a dire situation.

 

They may be in the 0.1% that p&o choose to ignore at the moment but as more and more younger people try cruising that percentage will grow and will not be able to be ignored if p&o want to maintain its share of the cruise market. 

 

Once again thank you for all your advice and comments. 

Happy cruising everyone. 

 

[david63]

There are a couple of ways around this problem that I can think of. One is to allow, if not already possible, passengers to put money into their onboard account from their debit card (just the same as using cash but electronic). The other is to allow passengers to buy OBC vouchers and pay those into their account (just like we used to do in the old days with travellers cheques) on the proviso that any unused OBC is refundable.

 

Notwithstanding any of this I do believe that P&O have a responsibility to make this situation clear to, especially, new passengers well before they board the ship and to inform them of other options.

[9265359]

15 hours ago, david63 said:

I think that it should be born in mind that the details posted above is American and I suspect that there are significant differences between the American banking procuresses and the UK ones.

 

And I suspect there are not significant differences between the American banking processes and the UK ones.

 

Visa (and the other companies) are global businesses, and the issues created by 'abusing' pre-authorisations and then ignoring those pre-authorisations for the final charge will be similar to any of their cardholders, whether they are in New York, York, or Cape York.

 

54 minutes ago, david63 said:

I do believe that P&O have a responsibility to make this situation clear to, especially, new passengers well before they board the ship and to inform them of other options.

 

Or perhaps a responsibly to actually fix the problem.

[Megabear2]

2 hours ago, 9265359 said:

And I suspect there are not significant differences between the American banking processes and the UK ones.

 

Visa (and the other companies) are global businesses, and the issues created by 'abusing' pre-authorisations and then ignoring those pre-authorisations for the final charge will be similar to any of their cardholders, whether they are in New York, York, or Cape York.

Following that comment I looked for the UK rules.  There is a 700 page document which covers the world. It mentions virtually every card worldwide, country by country.  Importantly chargeback, authorisations etc seem to have the same basic rules and applications.  I've not posted a link as I'm sure most would find it very tedious.