R Class Ships

[ak1004]

5 hours ago, ToxM said:

 

I do wonder if that is because Azamara only has R class ships. 

 

Either way due diligence will give anyone an idea if their desired cabin on an R class ship will be suitable for them. 

 

I am very happy in a PH on an R class. I am very happy in a standard verandah (or even an ocean view) on an O class. 

 

Exactly.

 

They love Azamara and don't have a choice. We do have a choice. Given that O has 3 newer ships with very comfortable cabins and showers, I just don't see a reason to sail on R ship. I have yet to find an itinerary on R ship that is more unique than O ship. Yes, there are a few ports that R ships can go, but on a typical 10-12 nights European itinerary, there might be no more than 1-2 such ports. I won't compromise on my comfort for 1-2 ports. And for the price of PH on an R ship, I can usually book SB or SS. 

 

For us, it's both itinerary and the ship, probably 70/30. R ships just don't cut it and don't justify the price. Paying the same price for a 240 cabin on a 1 year old ship and 170 cabin on a 20 years old ship is absurd.

Edited November 9, 2023 by ak1004

[Hlitner]

44 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

 

Exactly.

 

They love Azamara and don't have a choice. We do have a choice. Given that O has 3 newer ships with very comfortable cabins and showers, I just don't see a reason to sail on R ship. I have yet to find an itinerary on R ship that is more unique than O ship. Yes, there are a few ports that R ships can go, but on a typical 10-12 nights European itinerary, there might be no more than 1-2 such ports. I won't compromise on my comfort for 1-2 ports. And for the price of PH on an R ship, I can usually book SB or SS. 

 

For us, it's both itinerary and the ship, probably 70/30. R ships just don't cut it and don't justify the price. Paying the same price for a 240 cabin on a 1 year old ship and 170 cabin on a 20 years old ship is absurd.

Exactly, it is not an "O" issue but an "R" ship issue.  DW and I routinely cruised on the R ships when they were actually operated by Renaissance and than followed those ships to Azamara (in the early years of that line).   But since we are "equal opportunity cruisers" and enjoy many different lines/ships, we moved on to other options.  Eventually, we accepted that the R ship design of its regular cabins, are not to our taste.  Sure, we can adjust to the tiny baths/showers, but we would rather just book ships that better meet our comfort "wants."  So, we stopped with all the R ships.  Over the years we have looked at a few very nice O itineraries (on R ships), but simply found other alternatives with lines like Seabourn, Princess, HAL, etc.  Now that O has other options (their newer class ships) we have been trying to get on "O"  (not easy the way O changes itineraries the way others change light bulbs).  

 

The answer some folks have to the R ship issue is to simply book one of the larger suites.  But, we do not see that as a reasonable value when we compare the price of those suites to several luxury lines (our Seabourn cruises are generally less expensive than a R ship penthouse).  

 

We do understand that some folks become addicted (or wedded) to a single cruise line, but that is not our scene.  We can generally adjust to many different cruise lines (and we have cruised on 17..to date).  But accepting the tiny R Class bathrooms at "O" prices is just not going to happen...for us.

 

Hank

[ak1004]

Here are 2 fairly similar itineraries with few same ports at similar dates:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/mediterranean-cruises/rome-to-istanbul-VIS251029/ on Vista, veranda is $492 CAD per night

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/mediterranean-cruises/barcelona-to-istanbul-NAU251108/ on Nautica, veranda is $490 CAD per night. PH is $705 CAD per night. Seriously? Many SB sailings are cheaper on larger cabins and newer ships and all inclusive.

 

Why would anyone book this cruise on Nautica at those prices? And this is pretty typical.

 

I'm genuinely trying to understand, what am I missing?

 

[GeezerCouple]

9 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

...(Interestingly, on the Azamara forum here, there are FAR fewer comments/complaints about the showers than on this board. Not sure what that says.... 😆 )

 

Perhaps it's due to the fact that Azamara does not *also* have larger ships like the Riviera and Marina?

Due to those, the comments on the O forum are more likely to mention (or be based upon, albeit silently?) knowing there are other, larger ("better" for some, not for others) choices with similar (not identical!) levels of service and amenities.

And these "other choices" aren't invoking "other cruise lines".

 

GC

[cruisemom42]

33 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Here are 2 fairly similar itineraries with few same ports at similar dates:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/mediterranean-cruises/rome-to-istanbul-VIS251029/ on Vista, veranda is $492 CAD per night

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/mediterranean-cruises/barcelona-to-istanbul-NAU251108/ on Nautica, veranda is $490 CAD per night. PH is $705 CAD per night. Seriously? Many SB sailings are cheaper on larger cabins and newer ships and all inclusive.

 

Why would anyone book this cruise on Nautica at those prices? And this is pretty typical.

 

I'm genuinely trying to understand, what am I missing?

 

 

Your example doesn't address the "ship vs itinerary" question. 

 

Sure, if the itinerary and other factors are virtually identical, why not choose the newer/larger ship? But often enough, the smaller ships have more interesting itineraries. (For example, I wouldn't book either of the above, having been to all of the ports more than once.) Hence, itinerary over ship.

 

And to clarify what I mean by "other factors" -- for the category of cabin that I would normally book, the Vista itinerary you quote is $2,800 more per person than the Nautica itinerary. For an itinerary that is a day shorter. For a solo like me (or per couple), that's an additional $5,600 for the same itinerary..... What am I missing? 😉

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by cruisemom42
forgot something

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, GeezerCouple said:

 

Perhaps it's due to the fact that Azamara does not *also* have larger ships like the Riviera and Marina?

Due to those, the comments on the O forum are more likely to mention (or be based upon, albeit silently?) knowing there are other, larger ("better" for some, not for others) choices with similar (not identical!) levels of service and amenities.

And these "other choices" aren't invoking "other cruise lines".

 

GC

 

The way I read it, "other choices" are invoked often enough. If I've read it once I've read it many times on this forum that "for the price I'd pay to get a XX category room on the R ship I could sail on Seabourn or Silversea, yada yada yada."

 

You just don't find the same level of complaint on the Azamara board for whatever reason.

[ak1004]

7 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Your example doesn't address the "ship vs itinerary" question. 

 

Sure, if the itinerary and other factors are virtually identical, why not choose the newer/larger ship? But often enough, the smaller ships have more interesting itineraries. (For example, I wouldn't book either of the above, having been to all of the ports more than once.) Hence, itinerary over ship.

 

And to clarify what I mean by "other factors" -- for the category of cabin that I would normally book, the Vista itinerary you quote is $2,800 more per person than the Nautica itinerary. For an itinerary that is a day shorter. For a solo like me (or per couple), that's an additional $5,600 for the same itinerary..... What am I missing? 😉

 

 

Just for my education:

 

1) Can you give an example of more interesting itinerary in Europe on R ship that O ship doesn't have?

2) Which category Vista is more by $2,800 per person?

[halfapair]

20 hours ago, Snaefell3 said:

::whispers::  It's not the tall folks that have the worst issues in those showers.

Oh, yeah. I get it. I am wide, too (DH isn't a slim jim either). The cool thing is that there is a drain on the outside of the shower, so technically you can leave the doors open, if you need to.

 

Yes, the bathroom (and shower) is small, but it's doable.

[cruisemom42]

Just now, ak1004 said:

 

Just for my education:

 

1) Can you give an example of more interesting itinerary in Europe on R ship that O ship doesn't have?

2) Which category Vista is more by $2,800 per person?

 

For question 1:  Interesting that although Oceania lists Vista as calling in Seville, she is not listed on the Seville port calendar. That means she'll be docked a long distance away in Cadiz and passengers bussed to Seville. Smaller ships like Sirena (listed on the port calendar in 2024 and 2025) can dock right IN Seville.

 

Oceania's search makes it difficult to do comparisons as I don't think it's possible to search just by ports rather than region. (If I'm wrong, let me know how.). But I suspect that Bordeaux would be the same as Seville. 

 

Another major point for European itineraries: the smaller ships can dock much closer to Venice -- in Fusina, Chioggia or Marghera -- as opposed to being more than 2 hours away in either Ravenna or Trieste (where Vista, Marina and Riviera are shown in port).

 

And why limit it to Europe? There are a number of ports in Asia where the smaller ships have a big advantage in being able to dock IN rather than NEAR a port:  Bangkok and Saigon to name a couple.

 

For question 2 (from your links), the lowest category.

 

 

 

[ak1004]

22 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

For question 1:  Interesting that although Oceania lists Vista as calling in Seville, she is not listed on the Seville port calendar. That means she'll be docked a long distance away in Cadiz and passengers bussed to Seville. Smaller ships like Sirena (listed on the port calendar in 2024 and 2025) can dock right IN Seville.

 

Oceania's search makes it difficult to do comparisons as I don't think it's possible to search just by ports rather than region. (If I'm wrong, let me know how.). But I suspect that Bordeaux would be the same as Seville. 

 

Another major point for European itineraries: the smaller ships can dock much closer to Venice -- in Fusina, Chioggia or Marghera -- as opposed to being more than 2 hours away in either Ravenna or Trieste (where Vista, Marina and Riviera are shown in port).

 

And why limit it to Europe? There are a number of ports in Asia where the smaller ships have a big advantage in being able to dock IN rather than NEAR a port:  Bangkok and Saigon to name a couple.

 

For question 2 (from your links), the lowest category.

 

 

 

 

Yes, you are right, bigger ships dock in Cadiz not Seville. Around 1 hour 20 minutes drive. While less convenient, for me it's not a reason good enough to compromise on comfort. And usually on a 10-12 night itinerary, there are no more than 1-2 ports like this that are unique to R ships.

 

Regrading price:

 

Vista lowest category shows $4,892 CAD and Nautica $3,182 CAD, a difference of $1,710 CAD or $1,266 USD, so I'm not sure where do you see $2,800. Cruise critic search shows a similar difference:

 

But this is really not apples to apples comparison. You are comparing a 165 sqft  inside cabin with 240 sqft French veranda cabin.

Edited November 9, 2023 by ak1004

[Waltershipman]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Exactly, it is not an "O" issue but an "R" ship issue.  DW and I routinely cruised on the R ships when they were actually operated by Renaissance and than followed those ships to Azamara (in the early years of that line).   But since we are "equal opportunity cruisers" and enjoy many different lines/ships, we moved on to other options.  Eventually, we accepted that the R ship design of its regular cabins, are not to our taste.  Sure, we can adjust to the tiny baths/showers, but we would rather just book ships that better meet our comfort "wants."  So, we stopped with all the R ships.  Over the years we have looked at a few very nice O itineraries (on R ships), but simply found other alternatives with lines like Seabourn, Princess, HAL, etc.  Now that O has other options (their newer class ships) we have been trying to get on "O"  (not easy the way O changes itineraries the way others change light bulbs).  

 

The answer some folks have to the R ship issue is to simply book one of the larger suites.  But, we do not see that as a reasonable value when we compare the price of those suites to several luxury lines (our Seabourn cruises are generally less expensive than a R ship penthouse).  

 

We do understand that some folks become addicted (or wedded) to a single cruise line, but that is not our scene.  We can generally adjust to many different cruise lines (and we have cruised on 17..to date).  But accepting the tiny R Class bathrooms at "O" prices is just not going to happen...for us.

 

Hank

Hank my friend  AGREE WITH YOU AGAIN we having  sailed on an R ship  with original Renaissance and found their beds uncomfortable sailed  again in 2002 with O and enjoyed and Azamara which we loved even though our cabin was small. In 2020 just as Covid hit we were on the Sirena in a PH . The ship had just been redone and we loved our cabin

 

Now we will choose a ship more spacious and updated along with larger cabins

[cruisemom42]

13 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

Vista lowest category shows $4,892 CAD and Nautica $3,182 CAD, a difference of $1,710 CAD or $1,266 USD, so I'm not sure where do you see $2,800.

 

I'm seeing it right in the original links you posted. 🤷‍♀️ Just scroll down to the pricing info. 

 

Everyone's got their own sliding scale of value. On a 10-day itinerary I maybe spend 2 1/2 hours in the shower. I'd spend that much time commuting to Seville (or Venice or Bordeaux) and fuming about having two hours less to be in port.

 

[ak1004]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm seeing it right in the original links you posted. 🤷‍♀️ Just scroll down to the pricing info. 

 

Everyone's got their own sliding scale of value. On a 10-day itinerary I maybe spend 2 1/2 hours in the shower. I'd spend that much time commuting to Seville (or Venice or Bordeaux) and fuming about having two hours less to be in port.

 

 

Prices:

 

 

 

I agree regarding value. For us, the itinerary is definitely more important than the cabin size. But I just don't see itineraries on R ships that are more attractive. 

 

btw, O ships do dock in Bordeaux.

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, ak1004 said:

btw, O ships do dock in Bordeaux.

 

Right downtown? Or further out?

 

(I don't know, just asking to be clear....)

[ToxM]

Keep spreading your distaste of the R class those who dislike it … means more bookable space while we can for those of us who like it 😄

 

I will mourn the eventual loss of the R class ships. I am happy on the O class and have yet to try an A class trip. 

 

For me, a TA in 8000 on an R class is perfection 🙂 (cheaper than normal itins as well 😉 )

[ak1004]

2 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Right downtown? Or further out?

 

(I don't know, just asking to be clear....)

 

Downtown. We just booked one on Vista.

 

 

When it's not downtown, it says Le Verdon.

[ak1004]

1 hour ago, ToxM said:

Keep spreading your distaste of the R class those who dislike it … means more bookable space while we can for those of us who like it 😄

 

I will mourn the eventual loss of the R class ships. I am happy on the O class and have yet to try an A class trip. 

 

For me, a TA in 8000 on an R class is perfection 🙂 (cheaper than normal itins as well 😉 )

 

Well, I just checked couple TA itineraries:

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/transatlantic-cruises/miami-to-santa-cruz-de-tenerife-SIR240327/ - 14 nights on Sirena, PH3 is $6,999 CAD ($500 CAD per day)

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/transatlantic-cruises/miami-to-barcelona-MNA240405/ - 14 nights on Marina, PH3 is $7,299 CAD ($521 CAD per day)

 

https://www.oceaniacruises.com/transatlantic-cruises/miami-to-lisbon-VIS250501/ - 12 nights on Vista, PH3 is $6,499 CAD ($541 CAD per day)

 

So O ship is only $20 CAD per day more, and Vista $40 CAD per day more, but you get a 440 sqft suite compared to 322 sqft suite on the R ship. And TA is definitely not for the itinerary, so I really have a hard time understanding the value.

 

But everyone has a different definition of value. Means more bookable space for us on the newer ships!

 

 

Edited November 9, 2023 by ak1004

[cruisemom42]

19 minutes ago, ak1004 said:

And TA is definitely not for the itinerary, so I really have a hard time understanding the value.

 

Again, you're comparing itineraries where "itinerary" doesn't really matter....already agreed that in cases like that why not pick the newer/bigger ship?

 

I would never pick a TA unless it was for secondary reasons -- too many days at sea for me and rarely any new ports.

 

(Secondary reasons = a cheap way to get back to US; an addition to a desirable pre- or post-TA cruise at a good price, etc.)

 

My method for choosing a cruise is to think about where I want to go and when, research what ports of call would be optimal, then look for a cruise that offers closest to what I want at a price I can afford.

 

I do hope the R-class ships are around for at least another 5 years.... I plan to do a lot of cruising (newly retired)!

[ak1004]

20 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Again, you're comparing itineraries where "itinerary" doesn't really matter....already agreed that in cases like that why not pick the newer/bigger ship?

 

I would never pick a TA unless it was for secondary reasons -- too many days at sea for me and rarely any new ports.

 

(Secondary reasons = a cheap way to get back to US; an addition to a desirable pre- or post-TA cruise at a good price, etc.)

 

My method for choosing a cruise is to think about where I want to go and when, research what ports of call would be optimal, then look for a cruise that offers closest to what I want at a price I can afford.

 

I do hope the R-class ships are around for at least another 5 years.... I plan to do a lot of cruising (newly retired)!

 

Agree with you 100% regarding TA.. I was just responding to another poster who mentioned TA.

 

We recently booked two cruises in 2025 in Europe (10-12 nights). I checked all itineraries, including the R ships. I did not find a single itinerary on an R ships that offered some unique ports that O ships don't go there. Paris - all ships dock in La Havre. Rome is Civitavecchia, no matter which ship. Maybe it's different in other regions.

 

We ended up booking both cruises on Vista. Both under $500 CAD per day for French Balcony. To me, it's the best combination of itinerary, ship, cabin and price.

[ORV]

3 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm seeing it right in the original links you posted. 🤷‍♀️ Just scroll down to the pricing info. 

 

Everyone's got their own sliding scale of value. On a 10-day itinerary I maybe spend 2 1/2 hours in the shower. I'd spend that much time commuting to Seville (or Venice or Bordeaux) and fuming about having two hours less to be in port.

 

I've been downtown in Bordeaux on Marina. It was an overnight stop.