Just off Sojourn - agree with SLSD

[frantic36]

47 minutes ago, markham said:

 

I am now waiting to hear who the Capt, HD, CD and F&B are on Sojourn for our WC sector.

 

 

We enjoyed our Sojourn cruise in September and so are looking forward to our WC segment coming up. I will be able to confirm when we board in January your questions about Cast, HD, CD and F&B. See you in February.

 

 

[Mauzac]

5 hours ago, markham said:

Mauzac,

Thanks for the good wishes!

 

We have a Sojourn cruise in February lasting 33 days starting 20 Feb (is that 62 days away?).

I hope to see lots and lots of improvements vs the early 2023 letdown on Quest. We were truly shell-shocked by it. And we go back a long way. OTOH our June Venture trip was a joy, and I would encourage everyone to experience that ship design, simplicity with luxury and happy crew environment.

 

I am now waiting to hear who the Capt, HD, CD and F&B are on Sojourn for our WC sector. We know well that on Seabourn specifically the quality of these officers in terms of my expectations for service delivery is supremely important. This is not the case with other lines and how their ships operate, we have observed; often I barely know who they are.

 

For example, I would like to know what “enhanced menus” we have been hearing about the chefs testing for months now will be offered in the MDR and hopefully the Colonnade. And what’s new and better in Earth and Ocean where the format of smoky chicken salad starter and the same week rotating same old menu has gotten boring. It’s pretty much the one introduced when the concept was rolled out years ago.

 

All that said, and since this will mainly be a warm and good weather cruise, I would not be disappointed if they did not open the MDR for breakfast and lunch. Like you, I prefer eating outside at the Colonnade or poolside if there is space.

 

I’ll let you know.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

I love Sojourn... it was the ship for the first 4 cruises we did with SB so it holds a special place in our hearts!    Say hello to the dog on Deck 5 for me!

 

We are Quest in February and have just got to get ourselves to Buenos Aires... what a long journey that is! 

 

Have a good cruise! 🥂😎

[Mahogany]

On 12/19/2023 at 2:12 AM, markham said:

Times have moved on and other lines have moved up. This year we graduated to Silversea as our primary choice for cruises. It is the combination of 2 things that do it: they get all the basics right (track, longer pool, several differentiated restaurants with real menus, plenty of padded loungers with attentive drinks service coming to you, and far more space per passenger) on their 4 classic newer ships and there are many attractive pricing incentives when you book on-board. Plus more when you reach 100 days (laundry which is same day, not the next/up to 2 days on Seabourn), go on Venetian- named cruises, and after 250 days an additional 5%. Also, the milestone awards of free weeks. 

 

Yes, excursions are included which is fine for those who want to take them. If I don’t I am assured of a quiet ship whose facilities I can enjoy for a few hours around my choice to walk in town or whatever. At mid-day the pool and track on their own are inviting enough to keep me in the ship, and then there are the Patio, Spaccanapoli and La Terrazza outdoor seating restaurants and the Atlantide (near-MDR) and Kaiseki Japanese to choose from. In the evenings there are in addition the SALT (local cuisine), Silver Note (jazz) and upcharge La Dame (surcharge) restaurants. The complimentary wines are all of an higher standard and there (again) is more choice/ less need to buy premium wine. And lots of space with all those choices!

 

Now arguably you get a higher standard of luxury, and loyal cruisers there know what that means. Its vibe is consistently calm. No need to game each other over “retreats”, TKG reservations, nor guess what happens with the next round of long-awaited menu “enhancements” around ship staff you come and go. Nor do they need to offer fire sales all the time to keep us biting; we would worry anyway about what type of cruise those low fares can pay for when we know that we can rest assured of quality at a level we know well elsewhere. We find that they never cut out so much as Seabourn did before and during Covid, and so all the standards are there. Seabourn has yet to recover and still haven’t. Eg Seabourn still does not say one way or another if they will restore the old Club Concierge (precruise cabin amenities) service… Similarly, the only time a true 5* hotel does that unpredictable and repetitive public price discounting is when they are renovating, and only if they think they can still deliver the luxury experience and original standards without upsetting loyal guests with a degraded experience.
 

Maybe it would be easier to accept that Seabourn is now a notch below. Maybe it is on the upswing? It’s hard to know. This year’s quality ratings of the top lines in each category tell part of this story. 
 

i hasten to add that the Venture and Pursuit are top of league. It’s the combination of ship design, old Seabourn “can-do” mentality on board and the focused purpose these ships deliver so well! 
They are honest and concise products which set them apart in the line and the industry. Eg the idea of a “retreat” there is absurd.

 

That’s my take FWIW,

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Having just been on 2 trips on Dawn for a total of 40 days, I have to agree with you a lot about Silversea. But I have plans for Venture in spring and Regent Splendor in the summer, then Silver Ray next December. I like all 3 lines for different reasons.

But in the first paragraph, you mention milestone free weeks.  I have a free week with Seabourn at 150 days; I believe Silversea doesn't award you a 7-day cruise until 250. That's a big difference.

[markham]

That is true but that’s not the big picture.

 

Hiow so? Silversea gives 5% off their fares to those who have 100 sailed days and another 5% after you sail 250. Plus those particular Venetian sailings that include reduced fares. So book early on board Silversea ships (another discount) for the best fares knowing you are all set. Unlike Seabourn Silversea does not need to offer sales on empty cabins close to sailing date. They have stability and confidence through a pricing model/quality product that consistently has worked for me. And enjoy that free week on top of those incentives. I think it comes after 350 days but I can handle that. What they do overall is kinda like icing on the 5* cake.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Edited December 20, 2023 by markham

[Mahogany]

3 hours ago, markham said:

That is true but that’s not the big picture.

 

Hiow so? Silversea gives 5% off their fares to those who have 100 sailed days and another 5% after you sail 250. Plus those particular Venetian sailings that include reduced fares. So book early on board Silversea ships (another discount) for the best fares knowing you are all set. Unlike Seabourn Silversea does not need to offer sales on empty cabins close to sailing date. They have stability and confidence through a pricing model/quality product that consistently has worked for me. And enjoy that free week on top of those incentives. I think it comes after 350 days but I can handle that. What they do overall is kinda like icing on the 5* cake.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Oh, 350, 100 more than I thought.

[cruiseej]

6 hours ago, markham said:

Plus those particular Venetian sailings that include reduced fares. So book early on board Silversea ships (another discount) for the best fares

 

To be fair comparing apples to apples…

 

Seabourn has selected voyages which qualify for a Seabourn Club 5% discount — exactly the same as Silversea. And booking a future cruise on board Seabourn offers a 5% booking discount, similar to Silversea. (With Silversea, lower-cost Port-to-Port advance bookings qualified for only a 2.5% discount rather than 5%, but looking at the current T&C's it may be 5% now? But Port-to-Port fares don't get the 5% Venetian sailing discount, nor the 5% or 10% Venetian Society discounts.) 

 

With Seabourn, you get a free 7-day cruise at 140 days or a 14-day cruise at 250 days — versus 7 days for 250 and 14 days for 500 on Silversea. That's a pretty significant advantage of Seabourn cruisers. On the flip side, Silversea offers 5% off after 100 days and 10% off after 250 days, so that's a significant advantage for Silversea cruisers. 

 

Seabourn's tiered Club program provides discounts on all excursions and premium wines, something Silveursea's no-tier Venetian Society program. (But many excursions on Silversea are included, so Silversea travelers probably purchase fewer excursions.)

 

A Seabourn Future Cruise deposit for 5% savings is good for a generous four years until it must be used; if not used in that time, it will be refunded. A Silversea floating booking gives you only six months; you can book any future cruise and then transfer it to a different cruise, thus giving a longer timeframe to use the discount — but it's not as simple as Seabourn's 4 year timeframe.

 

So there are some pros and cons on both sides; neither is a slam dunk. 

[Sunprince]

On 12/20/2023 at 5:44 PM, markham said:

That is true but that’s not the big picture.

 

Hiow so? Silversea gives 5% off their fares to those who have 100 sailed days and another 5% after you sail 250. Plus those particular Venetian sailings that include reduced fares. So book early on board Silversea ships (another discount) for the best fares knowing you are all set. Unlike Seabourn Silversea does not need to offer sales on empty cabins close to sailing date. They have stability and confidence through a pricing model/quality product that consistently has worked for me. And enjoy that free week on top of those incentives. I think it comes after 350 days but I can handle that. What they do overall is kinda like icing on the 5* cake.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Markham, would you kindly explain how the SS pricing scheme works? I find it very confusing. For example: There is "door to door" with flights, "door to door", without flights (no flights/limo/transfer), then there is "port to port" (no flights, limo, transfer).

 

First question - how is "door to door, without flights" actually door to door? It seems like it is "port to port" but there is a separate fare category for "port to port", which does not include flights, limo, or transfers - same as the "door to door, without flights" BUT the price is higher for "door to door, without flights". Sounds convoluted? Confused? Yes, but it gets more complicated...

 

Second question - pricing of "door to door, with flights", varies. For example: The premium for flight/transfer/limo included in the "door to door" fare, varies within cabin category for the same cruise.  A non-balcony suite Vista can have premium of $2800, but then a Panorama have a premium of $3000, and then a classic veranda is back to a premium of $2800, and then a Superior Veranda is a different amount. This makes no sense. 

 

And then, if you try to add a business class flight upgrade to your fare, then the price skyrockets, often much higher than buying your own business class ticket yourself. 

 

So the bottom line for me is that until SS simplifies it's pricing schemes, then I do not have the time or desire to take a university level course to figure it out. The onboard experience might be great, but the roadblock is in trying to understand the pricing schemes, and various cancellation policies.

[markham]

All our current bookings on Silversea are made onboard where the sales specialist lays out the difference between door to door and port to port. Their system to illustrate on screen and print what is included is terrific in that it automatically adds in the various discounts we are entitled to eg after 100 days, back to back and sometimes Venetian cruise discounts. Then we pay the deposit and our TA takes over. They give a substantial discount as well on their subsequent invoice.

 

We simply go on price if we choose door to door which has included airport transfers and air. Our air has been in business class at a fraction of what we could ever find ourselves. (This probably has to do with the fact we book way in advance and get the best air priced allocations). But we have also agreed with the sales specialist on door to door, to skip the flights, and give us an air credit but not the free transfers. The idea is to offer choices. In our case we have never had a Silversea hotel included but we will in 2 upcoming cruises: April, 2024 Japan to Vancouver on Nova and January 2026 on Dawn from Ft Laud to Auckland. Those cruises include all transfers, business class air and one precruise hotel night, and were incredibly well priced, probably because they were booked as soon as they were announced. The former was booked on board but the latter was a pre-sale flash for Venetian members. The air packages are outstanding for us in London; we do not know how Silversea allocates costs but it must be a chunk out of our total cruise fare.

 

If I were you I would explore the options with an experienced TA, get a cruise under your belt, and onboard review further itineraries’ options. We were very impressed with the fluidity and transparency available. Seabourn simply does not have the systems and options for such tools.

 

No matter what you think of Seabourn’s product you owe it to yourself to try its competition. The Muse, Moon and Dawn and the newest but larger ship Nova and Ray, and the type of luxury they deliver put Silversea in another league, IMO.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[cruiseej]

@Sunprince I agree with you that I find some of Silversea's pricing nonsensical. In particular what you cited, where the air/transfer/limo cost goes up as you move up to higher ship suite categories. Why should the cost or credit for the non-ship travel be affected by what suite you select? That's just abusive pricing in my opinion, but Silversea loyalists don't seem to mind. 

 

Business class upgrades vary considerably, and can be a great deal or completely untenable. But for that, I don't really blame Silversea; it depends on their contracts and allocation with the airlines on specific routes. Availability of good business class upgrades has gotten worse post-pandemic because airlines have fewer flights and seats available. 

 

As for the nomenclature of things like "door-to-door without air", you just have to look past that it doesn't sound right. Some people like to book their own air, for control or to use frequent flyer miles, so they have to offer a carve-out for those who want all the other benefits of door-to-door but without included air. 

 

Keep in mind that port-to-port has some potentially big minuses which account for the difference in cost compared to door-to-door without air. From the moment you make port-to-port booking, 15% of your fare is non-refundable. Period. On an expensive cruise booked 2+ years in advance, that can be a big risk to take on if health, work, family could intercede in your plans, or simply you find a more preferable cruise you'd want to switch to. On the other hand, the P2P savings are significant if you're booking a cruise less than a year in advance and can be sure you're going. Also, if you become a Silvesea regular, they really dissuade you from doing port-to-port fares because several of their discounts are reduced or not applicable on P2P fares. (You can't get the 5% discount on select "venetian Society" cruises, nor the 5% or 10% savings regulars earn based on nights sailed.) For someone trying Silversea for the first time, this isn't an issue.

 

To me, they've made their pricing unnecessarily complex in trying to offer options for those who want the lowest price and those who want all-in simple travel and steps in between. But as @markham suggests, working with a good luxury cruise specialist travel agent and/or Silversea consultant, they can easily run all the numbers for you so you can make an informed decision. 

[labonnevie]

On 12/14/2023 at 1:14 PM, purpleally said:

Seabourn is better than regent and silver sea. Just sayin

YMMV

[alexandria]

I am very hesitant to book Silversea after the lack of integrity they demonstrated during the early days of the pandemic with their "Cruise with Confidence" cancellation policies.  Silversea enticed booked passengers to leave their bookings in place and lured new passengers by promising to provide 125% FCC if Silversea cancelled their booking.  Based upon the recommendation of several friends, my wife and I booked a Silversea cruise with that cancellation policy.  Six months or so later, Silversea cancelled our cruise but reneged on the 125% FCC promised.  Both our travel agent and I (a retired trial attorney) pursued the issue with Silversea executives with no success and I finally received a refund many months after the cancellation.  (This topic was the subject of a thread on the Silversea board when it occurred, many were impacted).

 

Our travel agent mentioned giving them another try, but I find their pricing model is often not competitive nor passenger oriented.  For many sailings, they only honor promotions (like OBC for early bookings) for those who book door to door and when we priced a few sailings, we found that we could often book business class air tickets and round-trip transportation to and from our home airport and to and from the port(s) for significantly less than the Silversea upcharge for their door to door fares (and that is with their economy air tickets).

 

So between the lack of trustworthiness Silversea demonstrated when they refused to honor their written and published Cruise with Confidence policy (which, at the time of our booking, had no fine print or disclaimers they could rely upon to change or cancel that policy) and their current pricing model, Silversea is the last on our list of luxury cruise lines we plan to sail now that we are fully retired and have been blessed with the means to travel extensively.

[markham]

Ouch! I can understand your situation.

 

It is live and learn with these companies and I hope we never find ourselves in such a position. Who needs such degrading treatment? I just hope it never happens again or to us.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

 

[hoya68]

On 12/22/2023 at 2:12 AM, markham said:

All our current bookings on Silversea are made onboard where the sales specialist lays out the difference between door to door and port to port. Their system to illustrate on screen and print what is included is terrific in that it automatically adds in the various discounts we are entitled to eg after 100 days, back to back and sometimes Venetian cruise discounts. Then we pay the deposit and our TA takes over. They give a substantial discount as well on their subsequent invoice.

 

We simply go on price if we choose door to door which has included airport transfers and air. Our air has been in business class at a fraction of what we could ever find ourselves. (This probably has to do with the fact we book way in advance and get the best air priced allocations). But we have also agreed with the sales specialist on door to door, to skip the flights, and give us an air credit but not the free transfers. The idea is to offer choices. In our case we have never had a Silversea hotel included but we will in 2 upcoming cruises: April, 2024 Japan to Vancouver on Nova and January 2026 on Dawn from Ft Laud to Auckland. Those cruises include all transfers, business class air and one precruise hotel night, and were incredibly well priced, probably because they were booked as soon as they were announced. The former was booked on board but the latter was a pre-sale flash for Venetian members. The air packages are outstanding for us in London; we do not know how Silversea allocates costs but it must be a chunk out of our total cruise fare.

 

If I were you I would explore the options with an experienced TA, get a cruise under your belt, and onboard review further itineraries’ options. We were very impressed with the fluidity and transparency available. Seabourn simply does not have the systems and options for such tools.

 

No matter what you think of Seabourn’s product you owe it to yourself to try its competition. The Muse, Moon and Dawn and the newest but larger ship Nova and Ray, and the type of luxury they deliver put Silversea in another league, IMO.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

Tried SS once. Worst cruise of my life. Never again.

[QuestionEverything]

Sounds like Oceania's food delivery options are far superior to Seabourn.

Did O Insignia in August - Iceland, Greenland, Canada and US.

The food and options for eating were outstanding.

The Grand Dining Room was mostly full at breakfast and lunch - I ate there much over 17 days! The food, service, staff were outstanding.

I have not done Seabourn yet, but this thread will ensure I will not do so.

Not good at all.

 

[Mahogany]

5 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

Sounds like Oceania's food delivery options are far superior to Seabourn.

Did O Insignia in August - Iceland, Greenland, Canada and US.

The food and options for eating were outstanding.

The Grand Dining Room was mostly full at breakfast and lunch - I ate there much over 17 days! The food, service, staff were outstanding.

I have not done Seabourn yet, but this thread will ensure I will not do so.

Not good at all.

 

My opinion after several Oceania cruises: the specialty restaurants are excellent, the dining room poor. If your experience is very recent, that's good news.

Dining threads are just like dress code postings, very subjective IMHO 😀

[QuestionEverything]

Mahogany - We have done O cruises since 2016. We were very impressed with the Grand Dining Room food on this recent voyage - better than the 4 before.

I am a foodie and I had few complaints - I do realize it is a large dining room, so I make allowances for timing, food temperature.

I believe that O lives based on their "finest cuisine at sea" label (I am not saying it is a truth), but we were very impressed with the food in all venues!

Hope 2024 is good to you and your family.

[frantic36]

13 minutes ago, QuestionEverything said:

Sounds like Oceania's food delivery options are far superior to Seabourn.

Did O Insignia in August - Iceland, Greenland, Canada and US.

The food and options for eating were outstanding.

The Grand Dining Room was mostly full at breakfast and lunch - I ate there much over 17 days! The food, service, staff were outstanding.

I have not done Seabourn yet, but this thread will ensure I will not do so.

Not good at all.

 

 

There are many reasons I wouldn't sail on O from what I have read on the boards. Just choose who you are comfortable with sailing with and be happy.

[MuseCruiser]

On 12/14/2023 at 2:08 PM, SLSD said:

I am always so glad when I hear someone say that.  I haven't been on Silversea is years!  

Silversea is wonderful. The MDR is open for all meals. 
We have also enjoyed our cruises in Seabourn. 

[RICHARD@SEA]

At Seabourn price point I would expect a fully operational ship w the dining rooms open for Breakfast , Lunch and Dinner.

 

I'm tired of hearing the excuse of the cutbacks due to Corona Virus - actually just bonus $$$ boosters for Carnival Corp Execs.

 

I haven't sailed on Seabourn since Carnival Corp bought the line.

[2SailingNomads]

My opinions:

 

1) I would NEVER pay to go to the Retreat, it defies everything that originally attracted me to Seabourn;

2) I agree Silversea pricing is confusing, looked at an interesting itinerary that was a B2B and if booked each segment can do port to port but the whole thing requires door to door, why is that.  Turned me off but might have my TA look into it.  Also do not like that there is an upcharge restaurant;

3) Have sailed twice on Regent and will be back on board in under 3 weeks, every lounge chair is padded (why can't Seabourn do that instead of uncomfortable chairs around the pool?).  On our Regent cruises Compass Rose (MDR) open for breakfast every single day.  Port days one specialty restaurant open for sit down service; sea days 2 open.  Big unobstructed walking track, no ducking chairs sticking out; pickleball / paddle tennis court, mini-golf, driving net, bocce ball court.  Better options of included wines.  New ships are very nice.  Included laundry from day 1, last cruise was always back next day and a few times same day.  

 

Pricing: Regent offers included air or you can take a credit which we have done but with a trans Atlantic in 2025 will see if we can take advantage of it as 1-way biz class tickets are ridiculous.  Regent and Silversea have included tours which you are paying for.  We have only done a couple of the included Regent tours, one was quite good the other not so much, but we accept that we are paying for something we mostly will not take advantage of for the other benefits of the total Regent experience.

 

Seabourn loyalty program is better than Regents.  Like Seabourn's layout of Sky Bar with tables you can sit at vs. Regent that only has 10 or so bar chair and no place to just sit by the bar.  Regent only allows smoking in a contained area so no smokers at or near the pool bar.  All tables at Pool Grill (similar to Patio Grill) are covered so can always have a table not in the sun.  Seabourn senior officers much more friendly than Regent's.  Regent does not have the on deck events like Seabourn does.  

 

Don't get me wrong, we have done 20 Seabourn cruises and have 2 more booked but no longer is Seabourn our only or even 1st choice given the changes over the last 6 or so years in the product.  We have also done 3 cruises on Scenic Eclipse I & II and if the design of the ships were better that would be our #1 line, especially since: size of ship; food; and many of the crew are former Seabourn employees so we know lots of them and they know us.  

 

And will be trying Explora in April which looks very interesting.

 

 

Edited January 21 by 2SailingNomads
Add Explora comment

[Covepointcruiser]

I remember Seabourn before COVID and the main Restaurant was never open on Port Days so this must have changed before 2016.   We are trying Regent at the urging of our TA.

Don’t like having to make reservations for specialty restaurants 120 days before departure.    We really don’t know where we would want to eat on what days.   Does Regent have special menus on some nights and how decent are their included wines.   I expect we will happily return to Seabourn after trying Regent in March.

[ON cruiser]

Cove point cruiser, I hope and expect you will enjoy Regent. We were on the Mariner for 17 days last late November-early December for a Caribbean back-to-back. We’ve sailed Seabourn on two occasions (pre-Covid), but prefer Regent.

 

You have the option to book specialty dining in advance—easy to do when contemplating the itinerary. Yet, depending on your dining time, you can also try “walk-ups”. As later diners we often got an impromptu table, and if you’re willing to share it improves your odds.

 

Our experiences show staff interaction with passengers via games (“passengers vs. Crew”, which included the Captain and other senior staff). Hosted tables are also available at times.

 

Breakfast and lunch available daily in a sit down restaurant; and the main dining room at night, Compass Rose, will spoil you for choice. 
 

The included wines are decent and there is a choice—if you find one you like, just ask for it. Included liquor upper shelf. 
 

While we have good memories of Seabourn, and “ never say never”, currently Regent ticks all the boxes for us.

 

What puts us off Silversea is the idea of paying a significant premium for some specialty dining. At the high cost per diem, it all should be covered—as it is on Regent. At least for now.

 

I hope you report on your impressions of Regent post-cruise (probably best on the Regent board for that). Bon Voyage!

[frantic36]

22 hours ago, ON cruiser said:

As later diners we often got an impromptu table, and if you’re willing to share it improves your odds.

We are trying Regent this October and are also late diners. On a few occasions we are fine to share with people we don't know But we much prefer to dine alone or with friends. I keep reading this need on Regent to be prepared to share and it does concern us.

[Mahogany]

1 hour ago, frantic36 said:

We are trying Regent this October and are also late diners. On a few occasions we are fine to share with people we don't know But we much prefer to dine alone or with friends. I keep reading this need on Regent to be prepared to share and it does concern us.

Isn't this just a problem with reserving the three specialty restaurants, not Compass Rose, which is open seating. And after all passengers have had a chance to have one dinner at them, there are always opportunities for additional evenings by checking with maitre'ds. Seems like Sette Mari should be reserved seating too since there appears to be a line before opening. Could favor late diners, though.

[frantic36]

2 hours ago, Mahogany said:

Isn't this just a problem with reserving the three specialty restaurants, not Compass Rose, which is open seating. And after all passengers have had a chance to have one dinner at them, there are always opportunities for additional evenings by checking with maitre'ds. Seems like Sette Mari should be reserved seating too since there appears to be a line before opening. Could favor late diners, though.

 

I am not sure that is this case with Compass Rose as well? I just have often read this response of being prepared to share in all the restaurants which makes me wonder if they don't have many two tops.