Surcharges for drinks in Retreat Lounge

[TommyD3]

I suspect that the problem is that when the wine prices were increased past the premium package cap, the consumption dropped. Therefore they reduced their future orders. Since the orders are put in at least a month in advance, now they are not receiving enough new stock of the wines that are back within the package cap.

[Joker54]

Just off the Beyond, the first sommelier we interacted with was in le voyage, she started right in recommending wine’s without asking about our interests and I had just opened the wine list. 
 

we are picky about wines and at least like to read the wine list before they start in…..

 

exact same thing happened in Eden later in the cruise.

[tfred]

16 hours ago, markeb said:

 

I'm not sure this is the motivation as much as a push to the lowest common denominator/or a regression to the mean. Maybe not as much on the reds; certainly none of cabernets are that great. And the "sommeliers" generally aren't that well trained or versed, and if you say you usually drink a cabernet, rather than "I'm having the...", they'll go straight to that style wine and likely never go anyplace else. On Equinox in November I ordered a fish dish one night and without asking anything about my preferences, I was immediately offered a Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc, the most popular style of SB in the country and a style I loathe, especially with food. Easy question not asked.

 

In spite of posts on Cruise Critic, odds are the vast majority of diners on Celebrity, even Luminae, aren't as into wine as those of us who are want to believe. The drink packages skew things as well; even if the $17 wine isn't the best on the list or the best pairing, it's the one they'll sell in the package. I do miss the variety they used to have of good alternative wines like Tempranillo or Gruner Veltliner (although I do see some in the app on occasion) that helped offset some forgettable better known varietals. Oh, well.

even though the different restaurants may have some different wines, the Premium Package is the offering that would apply across a dozen restaurants and menus on the ship.  I dont think they are actively matching food and wine in all of those and then choosing a wine to buy by the pallet. 

 

I think the Somms suggest something so there isnt a long drawn out discussion of what they have available.  I think that there is only one Somm in Luminae and he is busy

 

I would think X F&B are looking at what most people would drink and then look at suggestions to the Somms as to what to suggest for food pairings. May not be the best choice given the food but to X it would be close enough. They also aren't looking at "style of cabernet " to offer.  It is a cab, a SB, a chard etc.  Maybe some interesting whites/reds as a catch all

 

If pax are that discerning then they should peruse the bottle list and pick from there.  Also, I will admit that the X glass offerings are a tad low on the grocery store scale.  They could really choose the next level up.  I am not expecting Super Tuscans (although we had those by the glass on Apex Luminae 2 years ago) but if Costco can buy worthwhile reds in volume so could X

[markeb]

51 minutes ago, tfred said:

even though the different restaurants may have some different wines, the Premium Package is the offering that would apply across a dozen restaurants and menus on the ship.  I dont think they are actively matching food and wine in all of those and then choosing a wine to buy by the pallet. 

 

I think the Somms suggest something so there isnt a long drawn out discussion of what they have available.  I think that there is only one Somm in Luminae and he is busy

 

I would think X F&B are looking at what most people would drink and then look at suggestions to the Somms as to what to suggest for food pairings. May not be the best choice given the food but to X it would be close enough. They also aren't looking at "style of cabernet " to offer.  It is a cab, a SB, a chard etc.  Maybe some interesting whites/reds as a catch all

 

If pax are that discerning then they should peruse the bottle list and pick from there.  Also, I will admit that the X glass offerings are a tad low on the grocery store scale.  They could really choose the next level up.  I am not expecting Super Tuscans (although we had those by the glass on Apex Luminae 2 years ago) but if Costco can buy worthwhile reds in volume so could X

 

Agree. Other than a few that are largely only available in the specialties, the wines are the wines. Which means they pretty much have to buy wines that work in the bars in the afternoon, maybe poolside, and also with dinner. And available in enough volume that they can get them reasonably consistently.

 

The bottle lists are pretty good, and not as overpriced as I've seen in some restaurants. That's where they have an opportunity to make interesting offerings. The catch 22 is you get a nice discount with the premium package, but you're paying more for wine when you buy a bottle. Maybe next time I'll keep track of what I would have spent without the package. 

[TourDeCruise]

17 hours ago, TommyD3 said:

I suspect that the problem is that when the wine prices were increased past the premium package cap, the consumption dropped. Therefore they reduced their future orders. Since the orders are put in at least a month in advance, now they are not receiving enough new stock of the wines that are back within the package cap.

 

I was thinking that you made it possible with your influence for the return of Whispering Angel to the Premium Package. I wanted to thank you. We will be on Ascent next month and are hoping they have it in the Retreat Lounge, Grand Bistro (I particularly like to get a rose at lunch there), and Blu. It is a dry rose and not sweet, right?

[TommyD3]

4 hours ago, TourDeCruise said:

 

I was thinking that you made it possible with your influence for the return of Whispering Angel to the Premium Package. I wanted to thank you. We will be on Ascent next month and are hoping they have it in the Retreat Lounge, Grand Bistro (I particularly like to get a rose at lunch there), and Blu. It is a dry rose and not sweet, right?

Yes it is a dry Rose !!!

[George C]

2 hours ago, TommyD3 said:

Yes it is a dry Rose !!!

Might need to try that, thanks 

[Whinenowine]

21 hours ago, markeb said:

 

The catch 22 is you get a nice discount with the premium package, but you're paying more for wine when you buy a bottle. Maybe next time I'll keep track of what I would have spent without the package. 

But don't you get hit with a 20% gratuity charge when you buy a bottle, which essentially wipes out the 20% premium package discount?  So net/net a wash.

[Whinenowine]

On 2/11/2024 at 5:34 PM, markeb said:

 

I was immediately offered a Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc, the most popular style of SB in the country and a style I loathe, especially with food. Easy question not asked.

What, you don't like cat pee?  😇

 

While I'm partial to Sancerres, I do appreciate a Marlborough SB on occasion. 

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Whinenowine said:

But don't you get hit with a 20% gratuity charge when you buy a bottle, which essentially wipes out the 20% premium package discount?  So net/net a wash.

You’d still come out ahead. $100 bottle of wine would be $120 without the discount. Depending on their software it’s probably $96 with the discount. ($100-20=80 + 16). 

[DubiousDoc]

On 1/13/2024 at 6:05 PM, terrydtx said:

Here is the list of "Premium " wines available in Luminae currently on the Edge.

I've seen better wine selections at an Applebee's.  That is downright disgraceful.

[81Zoomie]

3 hours ago, DubiousDoc said:

I've seen better wine selections at an Applebee's.  That is downright disgraceful.

While we are really looking forward to our Down Under experience, we are very disappointed that Celebrity has elected to cheapen the wine selections, especially in the Retreat and Luminae.  This list looks like the old Classic wine list.  We will search out good Australian and NZ wines on shore and have them with our dinner.  We’d rather pay for a decent bottle on the local economy than pay Celebrity extra to drink low/average quality wines disguised as “elevated”.

Edited February 14 by 81Zoomie

[Veinless]

What cruise lines do wine better? Celebrity is disgracing themselves. 

[Dolebludger]

I’m no wine expert (seldom drink it). But I do know that a wine has to be VERY COSTLY to be at extra charge on Regent. 

[markeb]

40 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

I’m no wine expert (seldom drink it). But I do know that a wine has to be VERY COSTLY to be at extra charge on Regent. 

 

Meaning? I mean some people find a $50/bottle Napa cab very costly. Are we talking $150/bottle retail, which is a lot of good wine on the market, or Opus at $400/bottle? $50/bottle retail would still be over the Premium package on Celebrity today, but it's hardly very costly in the market.

 

I've never looked. Does Regent have wine lists online?

[Dolebludger]

I looked and couldn’t find a list for wine, or any other beverage. Of course, online searches are not of my generation. And I’m not much of a wine expert. What I do know is I’ve cruised Regent more times than I can count (and as recent as last summer), met many wine enthusiasts among the fellow guests, and heard zero complaints. 

[markeb]

36 minutes ago, Dolebludger said:

I looked and couldn’t find a list for wine, or any other beverage. Of course, online searches are not of my generation. And I’m not much of a wine expert. What I do know is I’ve cruised Regent more times than I can count (and as recent as last summer), met many wine enthusiasts among the fellow guests, and heard zero complaints. 

 

I found some for Seven Seas Voyager and Splendor. Sample menus. I'm assuming the listed wines are the included wines. Very heavy on French wines for the samples I found. Nice wines. Assuming current vintage not a dramatically higher price point than on Celebrity. Just a different selection. And not listed for all venues (really same as Celebrity). The ones I found were for Chartreuse and Compass Rose, which might explain the heavy Bordeaux/Burgundy/Rhone influence. And they've done the unforgiveable and listed the varietals! (One of the jokes about French wine is you should simply know the grapes once you know the source. They're not listed on the label in general.) I'd be fine, but I kind of wonder how popular they'd be around here...

 

There's at least one undated bar menu out there, based from the UK. If I'm interpreting it correctly (above the line = included (no price given) below the line upcharge as listed) the liquor offerings at least were better than Celebrity is now, with the same sort of headshakers. On the other hand, their web page says "all" over and over again, without footnotes or asterisks, for beverages and open bars. Interesting.

 

Actually, before I hit post, I found this on CC from 2022: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2872037-wine-lists-from-splendor/

 

Similar to Celebrity in quality and price, just more variety and different wines. No prices to divide the wines into categories. And I assume available.

 

 

[Dolebludger]

I found a wine list for the RSSC Splendor. Actually there was a list for complimentary wines, and one for wines at an up charge. All I can say is the complimentary list was a much longer list than what I have seen on Celebrity. No prices were given, as Regent operates differently. There is no “included below some price” situation. It is included unless it is on the up charge list. And if it is not on either list, it isn’t on the ship. The wines on the up charge list show a per bottle price ranging from $60 to $2,500. Average around $200. I agree that Regent uses the term “all” and “free” way too much. However, I have seen mention in its literature that some alcoholic beverages (and some shore excursions) carry a charge. But this mention isn’t prominent enough IMHO. However, it should be noted that we have two seven night Regent cruises booked, and each has a $1000 suite credit (which Celebrity no longer offers, as I understand). We spend most of that on the longer shore excursions. But we could use it on premium wine, if we wished. And there would not be a mandatory 20% tip. All (in this case really ALL) tips are included on Regent, except the Spa. If Regent’s handling of wine service doesn’t suit, check out Silversea and Seaborne. And if you don’t like the situation there, it doesn’t exist on a cruise line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14 by Dolebludger

[markeb]

I like what Regent shows for wine service. The variety approaches a really high end land-based restaurant. The wine lists I've seen do a great job of hitting nice wines at what's really not a high price point (to them). But they're also not needing the volume that Celebrity (or RCG as a whole, possibly less Silversea) needs. And honestly I wouldn't pick (or drop) a cruiseline over their wine program. It's just one data point.

 

The original cost question was because there's such variation on the boards these days on what's "costly". There's a thread about the Chef's Table, which is certainly not inexpensive, and probably overpriced given that it's not in one of Daniel Boulud's restaurants and you've already paid a base price for dinner. But it's really not that high compared to what they want to project, and significantly lower than one of Boulud's actual restaurants. It becomes very relative. If you're going to do that on a cruise, especially more than once, and it's included on a line like Regent, it alters the cost calculation.

[Dolebludger]

Yes, something like the Chef’s table is an included as a shore excursion on Regent — even though it is not on shore. The point of this thread is not that Celebrity is worthless the way it is. But the fact that the Retreat is priced at, or dangerously close, to Regent’s price merely means that it is no longer competitive — at least in my opinion.

[HopefulCruiser123]

Whew!  I have finally made it through to the end of this thread.  We are booked on a TA in April 2025 on Equinox in a Sky Suite and then on QM2 in June 2025.  I am sure we will have a wonderful time.  We are pretty low maintenance people with an “if you can’t be with the one you love, then love the one you’re with” approach to traveling and encountering things that are beyond our control.  

 

This and the butler faux pas thread has been disappointing to read. I think they ought to stop calling them beverage “packages” and start calling them “beverage discount coupons”.   Definitely would do a better job of managing expectations. For now there is a lot of unhappy people.  Many of them long time Celebrity Passengers who have racked up a lot of extra perks over the years.  It’s going to be tough to leave Celebrity and start all over again with a new line.  You have to wonder if that might not be part of the calculation on the part of the decision makers at X.  If you leave and go to a new line, you will be replaced with new cruises who won’t bite into the bottom line with extra perks.  If you have acquired a long list of perks, how likely are you to book at full fare with nothing extra thrown in to sweeten the deal.  Seems like a win-win for Celebrity.

 

For awhile the new cruisers will not be fully aware of just how wonderful it once was, but given the price point they may end up looking to the bigger mega ships that cater to younger travelers and their families as they will provide the same food, the same booze, the same itineraries but with many more venues and attractions to enjoy while on board.  What will Celebrity do then?  Build bigger ships to compete?  Or lower their pricing to compete.  Either way it will beg the question, “What was it all for after all”.

 

[Whinenowine]

12 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Yes, something like the Chef’s table is an included as a shore excursion on Regent — even though it is not on shore. The point of this thread is not that Celebrity is worthless the way it is. But the fact that the Retreat is priced at, or dangerously close, to Regent’s price merely means that it is no longer competitive — at least in my opinion.

You said it, brother. We love Celebrity and have enjoyed cruising with them in Alaska, Europe and the Caribbean.  But the current value offered by the Retreat is just a ghost of what it was, even as recently as 12months ago.  I do drink a lot of wine and by 2022 the quality (and lack of availability) of the 'included' choices on X have encouraged me to bring my own bottles on board. 

 

I've posted elsewhere the analysis I did late last year when I was looking for a Western Caribbean cruise. I ended up booking with Regent as it offered a bigger cabin with a much bigger balcony, included excursions and gratuities, a night at a pre-cruise 5-star hotel AND $1,000 in OBC....all for less than X wanted for a Sky Suite without any of those perks. I know a 750 person ship will not have the variety of offerings as a 3000 person ship, but I can live with that. 

[Dolebludger]

Yes, a line like Regent is offering a better deal than the Retreat these days. And you’ll be surprised how much it does offer, even though it has only 750 guests. And I think you’ll like something it doesn’t offer — like lines and crowds.

[SoberDogLover]

Hi - non drinker here, but I just downloaded the app for our first cruise aboard Edge and the menus all show surcharges for non-alcoholic - San Pelegrino and Coffees, for example. We are booked in a CS. I wrote an e-mail to The Retreat concierge this morning asking about that. I will let you know what I find out.

[PTC DAWG]

19 minutes ago, SoberDogLover said:

Hi - non drinker here, but I just downloaded the app for our first cruise aboard Edge and the menus all show surcharges for non-alcoholic - San Pelegrino and Coffees, for example. We are booked in a CS. I wrote an e-mail to The Retreat concierge this morning asking about that. I will let you know what I find out.

I doubt you will have any surcharges for what you mention