Haven Question

[havoc315]

50 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Haven on Epic last October.  Sold out.  No one I talked to “won a bid”.

 

Prima Haven leaving tomorrow.  Sold out a while ago.

 

Both ships sailing overcapacity.

 

People want a “deal”.  I get it.

 

But, if you’re waiting for the claimed inevitable price drop because of a perceived lack of demand, good luck.  

 

I’ve sailed Haven 5x (soon to be 6x).  The time to book those cabins is early, months before final

payment.  They sell out first out of all cabin types.  If you see a Haven fare you like, book it.  Waiting for a price drop on Haven cabins, that very rarely happen, will frustrate the dickens out of you. Bidding on one. at least in the last couple of years, unless you bid full price, will leave you disappointed. 

 

 

 

Of course they sell out —- They discount the price until they sell out. 
Here is the Prima this April:

 

So yes, if you waited for Prima Haven, you’d get a 50% price drop due to lack of demand.  

[graphicguy]

7 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Of course they sell out —- They discount the price until they sell out. 
Here is the Prima this April:

 

So yes, if you waited for Prima Haven, you’d get a 50% price drop due to lack of demand.  

Hey...if you can get that rate, book it.  Don't hesitate.  

 

Just going by personal experience in incessantly shopping cruise fares for the last decade plus.  I used to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for the proverbial Haven prices to drop, and they never did.  If you find a good Haven fare, jump on it.  That's my advice.

 

Cheapest Haven fare I ever found was $3,800/cabin for a Haven Spa Suite on an older (Breakaway) ship.  But, that was right after the restart.

 

I seem to remember @david_sobe getting even lower than that.

 

If I find a Haven fare for less than/equal to $4,500/suite, I don't hesitate.  I grab the old CC and get to booking.  I don't believe I've ever paid more than $4,800 for a Haven Suite...all in....EVER!

 

Again, if you see it at those fares, jump on it.

Edited February 1 by graphicguy

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Hey...if you can get that rate, book it.  Don't hesitate.  

 

Just going by personal experience in incessantly shopping cruise fares for the last decade plus.  I used to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for the proverbial Haven prices to drop, and they never did.  If you find a good Haven fare, jump on it.  That's my advice.

 

Cheapest Haven fare I ever found was $3,800/cabin for a Haven Spa Suite on an older (Breakaway) ship.  But, that was right after the restart.

 

I seem to remember @david_sobe getting even lower than that.

 

If I find a Haven fare for less than/equal to $4,500/suite, I don't hesitate.  I grab the old CC and get to booking.  I don't believe I've ever paid more than $4,800 for a Haven Suite...all in....EVER!

 

Again, if you see it at those fares, jump on it.

It’s a risk if you’re committed to a specific cruise, cabin and date. But the majority of the time, you’ll get a steep discount by waiting until about the 90 day mark.  

[graphicguy]

 

This was booked about 5-6 months ago.  It was sold out at the 4 month mark.  Prices went up steadily.  Just one example.  If you find it, book it.  Don't wait.

 

×

[graphicguy]

32 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

Of course they sell out —- They discount the price until they sell out. 
Here is the Prima this April:

 

So yes, if you waited for Prima Haven, you’d get a 50% price drop due to lack of demand.  

This is fine for a general overview.  But, show me the fares for the ship(s), Have Suite type, exact date, length of cruise, etc.  Hard money paid for the fares are the only ones I pay attention to.

[vacation44]

We booked our 2-bedroom Haven on the Epic in April 2022.     The price dropped a total of 9 times for a savings of $3,416.29 between our booking and final payment.    We took advantage of every price drop.    And the ship was at 100% capacity. 

 

I think everyone should book a cabin/category they are comfortable with but do price checks continuously.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, vacation44 said:

We booked our 2-bedroom Haven on the Epic in April 2022.     The price dropped a total of 9 times for a savings of $3,416.29 between our booking and final payment.    We took advantage of every price drop.    And the ship was at 100% capacity. 

 

I think everyone should book a cabin/category they are comfortable with but do price checks continuously.

I agree…

 

Unfortunately, I am a chronic cruise fare shopper.  The lat 18 months or so, I’ve had to work hard….really hard, to find Haven deals.  They’re there.  But you have to be open in ships, dates and itineraries!    

[havoc315]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

This is fine for a general overview.  But, show me the fares for the ship(s), Have Suite type, exact date, length of cruise, etc.  Hard money paid for the fares are the only ones I pay attention to.

 

An example, at about the 90 day mark--Norwegian Epic, sales April 29th. This cabin was over $13,000 a couple months ago, now:

 

 

[graphicguy]

4 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

An example, at about the 90 day mark--Norwegian Epic, sales April 29th. This cabin was over $13,000 a couple months ago, now:

 

 

Therein is the issue.  I don't even consider that a deal.  

 

I had a 2BR Haven Suite on Epic Mediterranean for 11 nites this past October for less than $5K ($4,800 I think was the number I recall).

 

It was booked 5 months from final payment.  If I had waited just 2 more days, same cabin type the fare doubled.  $5K/cabin is my cutoff for Haven suites.  

[havoc315]

11 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Therein is the issue.  I don't even consider that a deal.  

 

I had a 2BR Haven Suite on Epic Mediterranean for 11 nites this past October for less than $5K ($4,800 I think was the number I recall).

 

It was booked 5 months from final payment.  If I had waited just 2 more days, same cabin type the fare doubled.  $5K/cabin is my cutoff for Haven suites.  

 

I've never seen any Haven cabin that cheap on the cruises I do... But it's not about whether you consider it a "deal" -- It's a question of whether they got their maximum asking price, or have to offer a discount in order to fill it.  They couldn't fill it at $13,000, so need to offer approximately a 25% discount. If it doesn't sell at a 25% discount, they will discount it even more. If it still doesn't sell, then it will be open for bid upgrades.  

 

Not sure how you could have gotten a 2 BR on the Epic for an 11 night cruise for under $5,000.  

For October 2024, 11 day Mediterranean cruise on the Epic, a 2BR Haven Suite for 2 people would be $15,000.

So somehow, you got it for 67% less than the same cruise in 2024.  A regular balcony cabin is going for over $5,000.  So something doesn't seem right, I don't think the prices have tripled in just one year.  

 

I'm not seeing any NCL cruise where you can get the 2BR Haven Suite for a week or more, for under $5k.  

 

 

[havoc315]

2 hours ago, vacation44 said:

We booked our 2-bedroom Haven on the Epic in April 2022.     The price dropped a total of 9 times for a savings of $3,416.29 between our booking and final payment.    We took advantage of every price drop.    And the ship was at 100% capacity. 

 

I think everyone should book a cabin/category they are comfortable with but do price checks continuously.

 

The problem is, they will usually wait until the 120 mark for any significant price drop (unless they are really having a massive problem booking the ship). And after the 120 day mark, they no longer have to let you re-book at the lower price.  

[dexddd]

Imo, from what I've seen and felt is they want to have a set number of Haven staff and that was reduced under FDR over the years.  I'm sure one poster will want proof or charts.  Sorry, I don't have any but I certainly have actually sailed Haven enough and gotten feedback from staff of that happening corroborated by years of reports of varying levels of service even from the same staff but different room.

 

Also, when FAS first came out, Haven got it for free.  They obviously took the opportunity to capitalize on charging.  If they are able to continually raise prices, charge higher dsc, etc., good for them, not for me.

[bluefish17]

I also have sailed in MSC Yacht Club and also NCL Haven. There are pros and cons to each.

 

MSC YC Pros:

    More staff, more service.

    Better lounge with light music at night

    Mini bar stocked and included

   Butler included in gratuities, wifi & thermal included.

   Food menus change daily

   Fares generally less

 

MSC YC Cons:

    Slower service for meals (European thing)

    Standard included wines with meals pretty basic, just up from grocery store types

    Not much variety in stocked whiskies and liquors

 

NCL Haven Pros:

    Better entertainment options on ship

    Fast food service

    better wine and whiskey selection

 

NCL Haven Cons:

    Mini bar in room not included nor is Butler service to bring a drink to the room. I really don't                    understand why NCL can't put some beer and soft drinks in your Haven suite at the price you're

    paying.

 

Also I can confirm that prices do drop. But you can't count on that. We were booked on MSC YC Rome to Dubai through Suez last Nov. After the fighting broke out, ports of Egypt and Jordan got canceled. MSC was nice to refund our cruise fare. I found 1 Haven cabin open on Viva, Rome to Lisbon, 10 day.

2 bdr Haven suite for just under 6k. We enjoyed that cruise so much that we are now on 11 day cruise in April on Prima. And yes the fares did drop after the 120 day mark but cabins were then booked fairly quickly and cruise is now sold out in Haven. I do view the Viva fare as an anomaly and don't think I'll ever get that kind of deal again.

[Sailing12Away]

4 hours ago, havoc315 said:

 

I've never seen any Haven cabin that cheap on the cruises I do... But it's not about whether you consider it a "deal" -- It's a question of whether they got their maximum asking price, or have to offer a discount in order to fill it.  They couldn't fill it at $13,000, so need to offer approximately a 25% discount. If it doesn't sell at a 25% discount, they will discount it even more. If it still doesn't sell, then it will be open for bid upgrades.  

 

Not sure how you could have gotten a 2 BR on the Epic for an 11 night cruise for under $5,000.  

For October 2024, 11 day Mediterranean cruise on the Epic, a 2BR Haven Suite for 2 people would be $15,000.

So somehow, you got it for 67% less than the same cruise in 2024.  A regular balcony cabin is going for over $5,000.  So something doesn't seem right, I don't think the prices have tripled in just one year.  

 

I'm not seeing any NCL cruise where you can get the 2BR Haven Suite for a week or more, for under $5k.  

 

 

I think you're missing a big piece of info here. You keep throwing out examples of price drops to show that NCL is providing a 'discount' to fill the Haven rooms. What you're grossly ignoring is the egregiously overinflated starting prices. There is demand, people have credits to use up (less so now than a year ago), people feel safe traveling... 

If there's a schmuck out there willing to pay 14K for a basic Haven cabin (non Owner's Suite) on a week long cruise, sure.... we'll sell it to them at that price. These price drops are not desperate measures to fill unwanted rooms to me - they're putting the price back where it truly belonged in the first place after those with disposable income have snatched up their preferred rooms first. 

 

Our 2nd trip on the Epic in a 2br Haven cabin we paid <$300/pp/day. We're sailing on Epic again next month in a 2br again and once again are paying <$300/pp/day. We booked it at that price about a week after final payment when the # of remaining cabins went from 10+ down to just 3 in a matter of days. No price difference before final payment to after when we booked. Haven was completely sold out another 2 weeks later.

 

This will be our 9th Haven trip, and about half of them have been with price points <$400/pp/day. On average for a full Haven ship we expect to pay around $500/pp/day. For the right trip or a fancier room we're willing to pay more (don't judge us on that horrible Prima price, definite buyers remorse on that one), but I wouldn't even give Haven a passing glance at some of the starting prices you were showing because they're not real. 

Our 4 most expensive NCL trips were Prima because it was new and we splurged on a fancy room with hot tub (that we never got to use....), Alaska because it was right after the market opened up after Covid and was a bucket list for us, and the two different stays in the 3br villa without even having 6 people in the suite. So sure, there's crazy starting prices - but only a fool would pay them to sail on NCL when at that price point you should be looking at a true luxury line.

[havoc315]

10 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

I think you're missing a big piece of info here. You keep throwing out examples of price drops to show that NCL is providing a 'discount' to fill the Haven rooms. What you're grossly ignoring is the egregiously overinflated starting prices. There is demand, people have credits to use up (less so now than a year ago), people feel safe traveling... 

If there's a schmuck out there willing to pay 14K for a basic Haven cabin (non Owner's Suite) on a week long cruise, sure.... we'll sell it to them at that price. These price drops are not desperate measures to fill unwanted rooms to me - they're putting the price back where it truly belonged in the first place after those with disposable income have snatched up their preferred rooms first. 

 

Our 2nd trip on the Epic in a 2br Haven cabin we paid <$300/pp/day. We're sailing on Epic again next month in a 2br again and once again are paying <$300/pp/day. We booked it at that price about a week after final payment when the # of remaining cabins went from 10+ down to just 3 in a matter of days. No price difference before final payment to after when we booked. Haven was completely sold out another 2 weeks later.

 

This will be our 9th Haven trip, and about half of them have been with price points <$400/pp/day. On average for a full Haven ship we expect to pay around $500/pp/day. For the right trip or a fancier room we're willing to pay more (don't judge us on that horrible Prima price, definite buyers remorse on that one), but I wouldn't even give Haven a passing glance at some of the starting prices you were showing because they're not real. 

Our 4 most expensive NCL trips were Prima because it was new and we splurged on a fancy room with hot tub (that we never got to use....), Alaska because it was right after the market opened up after Covid and was a bucket list for us, and the two different stays in the 3br villa without even having 6 people in the suite. So sure, there's crazy starting prices - but only a fool would pay them to sail on NCL when at that price point you should be looking at a true luxury line.

You may have the opinion the prices are overinflated. That’s your subjective opinion. I just paid $30k for a garden villa. 
 

But economics are not subjective. There are plenty of cruise lines that charge more than NCL, and fill their suites at higher prices than NCL. Generally speaking, those cruise lines offer more. This is basic economics — if you offer a better product, you get greater demand, which supports higher prices. 
 

For a single individual, the “fair” price is entirely subjective. Some are willing to pay more, some are willing to pay less. 
But the supply/demand price set by the market is not subjective, that’s an objective fact. The price required to sell 100% of the product. 

 

The discounts are proof that they are indeed overpriced for what they offer. The better the product being offered, the more you can charge. 

[Sailing12Away]

8 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

You may have the opinion the prices are overinflated. That’s your subjective opinion. I just paid $30k for a garden villa. 

Congratulations? I have no idea what to make of that statement, because once again you're spewing out random prices with no other info to put it into perspective of what each of us would perceive to be either a good or poor value.

 

If you're paying 30K for a 5 day cruise, I laugh at you and stand by the statement that you're fishing in the wrong pond at that price point. 

[havoc315]

21 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Congratulations? I have no idea what to make of that statement, because once again you're spewing out random prices with no other info to put it into perspective of what each of us would perceive to be either a good or poor value.

 

If you're paying 30K for a 5 day cruise, I laugh at you and stand by the statement that you're fishing in the wrong pond at that price point. 

?? Feel free to laugh at me. I’m paying less per person per day than you have paid for some of your cruises, but that’s irrelevant. 
 

My point is — what I consider fair pricing is irrelevant. What you consider fair pricing is irrelevant. Our subjective opinions as individual cruisers are irrelevant. 
 

The market ultimately sets the pricing. If a cruise can 100% book their cabins at $50,000 per night — then it’s not overpriced, even if you personally consider it overpriced.  
 

The reason I entered this discussion about discounts, is because someone claimed NCL has zero incentive to offer their customers anything more, as they are already getting the absolute highest possible price for 100% of their Haven cabins. 

Thus, you seem to be in agreement with me — that NCL is not getting the absolute highest possible cruise fare for every cabin.  
Which does give them incentive to offer a better product. 


 

 

[graphicguy]

Can’t believe I dig this out.   But

6 hours ago, havoc315 said:

 

I've never seen any Haven cabin that cheap on the cruises I do... But it's not about whether you consider it a "deal" -- It's a question of whether they got their maximum asking price, or have to offer a discount in order to fill it.  They couldn't fill it at $13,000, so need to offer approximately a 25% discount. If it doesn't sell at a 25% discount, they will discount it even more. If it still doesn't sell, then it will be open for bid upgrades.  

 

Not sure how you could have gotten a 2 BR on the Epic for an 11 night cruise for under $5,000.  

For October 2024, 11 day Mediterranean cruise on the Epic, a 2BR Haven Suite for 2 people would be $15,000.

So somehow, you got it for 67% less than the same cruise in 2024.  A regular balcony cabin is going for over $5,000.  So something doesn't seem right, I don't think the prices have tripled in just one year.  

 

I'm not seeing any NCL cruise where you can get the 2BR Haven Suite for a week or more, for under $5k.  

 

 

Can’t believe I searched and dug this up.  But I hate being called a liar….

 

Edited February 1 by graphicguy

[havoc315]

10 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Can’t believe I dig this out.   But

Can’t believe I searched and dug this up.  But I hate being called a liar….

 

Dug what up?

 

I'm not calling you a liar at all.  Just questioning how you got a cruise/cabin that is currently selling for $15000, for under $5000, just one year earlier, without waiting until after final payment.  I don't know if you got some massive discount through a program.  But that certainly wasn't the regular price.  

[graphicguy]

Web site went haywire..This

was 4 months ago…

Edited February 1 by graphicguy

[havoc315]

9 hours ago, graphicguy said:

 

 

This was booked about 5-6 months ago.  It was sold out at the 4 month mark.  Prices went up steadily.  Just one example.  If you find it, book it.  Don't wait.

 

×

 

I thought you said it was an 11 night in Europe in October 2023.

 

Regardless, you're looking at a discount website. I don't know how they operate, or whether they are always charging the same price as NCL directly. I know nothing about this website, but for example, websites like priceline -- hotels will quietly dump off excess inventory at a deep discount on the website.  In other words, as supporting my original statement:  NCL is not filling 100% of the Haven cabins at the maximum booking rates. 

 

 

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

 

I thought you said it was an 11 night in Europe in October 2023.

 

Regardless, you're looking at a discount website. I don't know how they operate, or whether they are always charging the same price as NCL directly. I know nothing about this website, but for example, websites like priceline -- hotels will quietly dump off excess inventory at a deep discount on the website.  In other words, as supporting my original statement:  NCL is not filling 100% of the Haven cabins at the maximum booking rates. 

 

 

(sigh)

 

That’s the actual reservation I posted.  I found the fare on NCL’s web site.  Booked it through a TA!

 

Book the way you want!

 

I’m done!

Edited February 2 by graphicguy

[havoc315]

13 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

(sigh)

 

That’s the actual reservation I posted.  I found the fare on NCL’s web site.  Booked it through a TA!

 

I’m done!

?? No, you posted a 7 night in the Caribbean leaving tomorrow (enjoy your trip!), you didn't post an 11 night in Europe in October 2023. 

 

I'm honestly a bit confused by what you're trying to say.  The exact price you paid is irrelevant. The issue was "do Haven prices ever get discounted."  You claimed you've never seen a Haven room get discounted, but we know, with absolute certainty from tracking history, that Haven rooms do get discounted on most NCL cruises.  And if you really got a 2 bedroom Haven for 11 nights in Europe for $4800 when the price for the same cruise is now $15,000 --- then you did get a really nice discount yourself.  

 

This is what I'm seeing that you posted:

 

 

Edited February 2 by havoc315

[graphicguy]

Reading comprehension is your friend.  Run through the posts in order and read them.  You’re Welcome!

 

Haven (or any cabins) fares are dependent on lots of variables..is it Hurricane season for the ship sailing from FL?  Is school for the youg’uns on or out?  Is the ship new or older?  What’s the length of the cruise?  Some itineraries have generally lower fares than others.  

 

To say there’s a general rule of thumb or some sort of “sale” (regardless of what’s on the NCL front page) of you wait is not something anyone should wait for.  I’ve done it….amd got burned…more than once.

 

The only real hard and fast truism about fares were when they were being steeply discounted after the COVID restart!  

 

There are deals out there.  You just have to shop hard to find them.  And when you find one, don’t hesitate!

[havoc315]

24 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

Reading comprehension is your friend.  Run through the posts in order and read them.  You’re Welcome!

 

Haven (or any cabins) fares are dependent on lots of variables..is it Hurricane season for the ship sailing from FL?  Is school for the youg’uns on or out?  Is the ship new or older?  What’s the length of the cruise?  Some itineraries have generally lower fares than others.  

 

To say there’s a general rule of thumb or some sort of “sale” (regardless of what’s on the NCL front page) of you wait is not something anyone should wait for.  I’ve done it….amd got burned…more than once.

 

The only real hard and fast truism about fares were when they were being steeply discounted after the COVID restart!  

 

There are deals out there.  You just have to shop hard to find them.  And when you find one, don’t hesitate!

 

That was the only image you posted. But now I see, you edited it at some point and put in a receipt for the Epic cruise. But the receipt you posted was 3-months pre-cruise, so it was after the final payment window. Seems you got a very deep discount after final payment.

 

NCL is sophisticated enough in the pricing models that there is no such thing as an objective "deal." 

Objectively, a "deal" is selling a $100 bill for $50.  

Their pricing it set by the market. If an older ship has a cheaper suite, it's not a "deal" --- It's cheaper, because it's older and less desirable to the market at a whole.  (It may be a "deal" for certain individuals who prefer the older ship, etc).  If cruises are cheaper in hurricane season, it's not a "deal" -- You're paying less to accept the risk of a hurricane ruining your trip.  And when you get a deep discount after the final payment deadline, it's not a "deal"... more just a gamble that paid off.

 

Now, if NCL is really pricing 2 bedroom Haven suites for 11 day European cruises at $4500 --- Then my original hypothesis is definitely true ----  They are now getting top dollar for all of their suites 100% of the time. 

When NCL is booking 100% of their Haven cabins at $3,000+ per night, then you can say there is no reason for them to improve the guest experience.  Until they can do that, there is absolutely every reason to improve their guest experience.