Haven Question

[zqvol]

The children should play nice with each other

[Sailing12Away]

I am so confused.... my head is literally spinning with all the back and forth and contradictory statements that I honestly don't know what they're trying to say. I think some people just find entertainment in these boards by arguing for the sake of arguing even though they seem to actually agree?

 

Yes, there are people willing to pay >1K per day to be in the Haven (15K for an 11 day trip). But the majority of us are not, and have not, and will book at the price we're comfortable with which will fluctuate based on 100 other factors such as ship (jewel class vs breakaway plus), destination (basic white claw clientele in the Caribbean vs Alaska), time of year (hurricane season vs holiday cruise), and countless other things.

 

No, there is no set "true" price for anything. But going by historical data and the fact that CC has thousands of folks here who each have 5+ trips under their belts and know what they have personally paid, and folks that openly share and discuss what they feel on average the price usually is.... we can make some pretty solid guesses to confirm an inflated price vs the new norm.

 

My point before that I think keeps getting missed is that with those inflated (to me) prices, folks willing to pay those prices should be looking at other cruise lines. Using the example of an 11 day cruise around Europe.... you can book on Oceania in a concierge level veranda room for $6200. 

 

Similar dates on NCL for a Greek cruise are double for Haven. Not trying to tell anyone how to spend their money, but I want to know why someone would pay NCL double when they can move up a league at half the price.

[havoc315]

23 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

 

 

My point before that I think keeps getting missed is that with those inflated (to me) prices, folks willing to pay those prices should be looking at other cruise lines. Using the example of an 11 day cruise around Europe.... you can book on Oceania in a concierge level veranda room for $6200. 

 

Similar dates on NCL for a Greek cruise are double for Haven. Not trying to tell anyone how to spend their money, but I want to know why someone would pay NCL double when they can move up a league at half the price.

 

In that comparison, I'd definitely go with Oceania!  Though oddly, when I looked at the exact same cruise and cabin, it priced it at almost $10,000 for me.. Just odd

 

But put that aside...

 

It's a question of what NCL wants to sell the Haven as, and what customers want to buy.

 

NCL and other large cruise ships have some inherent advantages over the smaller luxury cruise lines.  The biggest inherent advantage ---  Larger ships have far more amenities and offerings. You won't find go-karts and waterparks on those small luxury ships.  Generally speaking, the larger cruise ships will have far more ambitious and grandiose entertainment (though Oceania specifically has pretty good entertainment.. but the smaller ships like Silverseas just don't do the true Broadway style productions).  

And typically, similar $$$ will get you a bigger suite on NCL than you'd get on a luxury line.

 

So NCL could take a couple different tracks:

1 -- Offer a lesser luxury experience than the luxury cruise lines.  Hope to still charge similar pricing, based on the advantages of the larger ships, larger suites. 

While you found an example where NCL was more expensive than the luxury line, it's usually reversed, they usually can't charge as much as the luxury line.

 

2 -- Match the luxury line experience in terms of service, inclusiveness, etc.  While offering large ship advantages.  True best of both worlds.  If they went this route, they would likely have more success charging equal or more than the luxury lines.

 

NCL will claim they are delivering #2, but they are really doing #1.  Virgin cruises is going more truly into #2, for example with their Mega Rockstar cabins. RCL does #2 with their Star Class -- all specialty dining including, a butler who services only 3 rooms, all beverages included, high speed internet included. 

 

Now, there is always going to be an urge to cut costs.  Cutting costs creates an immediate savings and therefore an immediate profit boost. 

 

The question is (and I don't know the answer), will NCL suffer in the long term in their Haven class, if they don't keep up with the suite benefits offered on other cruise lines?

 

 

 

 

[cruiseny4life]

34 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

The question is (and I don't know the answer), will NCL suffer in the long term in their Haven class, if they don't keep up with the suite benefits offered on other cruise lines?

Maybe...but the current (possibly short-term indicator) situation is that NCL is almost booking solid their Haven offerings prior to embarkation. And, some times even before final payment. This tells me folks are booking and paying the price for Haven luxury. Will the spigot of willing cruisers turn off? Start to drip? Maybe. I hope so! More value for me, but then will those value seekers come scurrying back to NCL making up for those that were booking at the higher prices? 

 

If I had to guess, and I'm not good at guessing, I'd venture to say NCL will be fine in the long-term, with their Haven offerings. I'm no prognosticator, but hey trained economists have been screaming about a recession for 18 months, with no recession in sight. Anyway...more importantly:

 

NCL's dress code is more aligned with our cruising tastes. We won't be on Oceania, Regent, or the other lines. Heck, Carnival is too much for us. NCL hits the sweet spot. 

 

 

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Maybe...but the current (possibly short-term indicator) situation is that NCL is almost booking solid their Haven offerings prior to embarkation. And, some times even before final payment. This tells me folks are booking and paying the price for Haven luxury. Will the spigot of willing cruisers turn off? Start to drip? Maybe. I hope so! More value for me, but then will those value seekers come scurrying back to NCL making up for those that were booking at the higher prices? 

 

If I had to guess, and I'm not good at guessing, I'd venture to say NCL will be fine in the long-term, with their Haven offerings. I'm no prognosticator, but hey trained economists have been screaming about a recession for 18 months, with no recession in sight. Anyway...more importantly:

 

NCL's dress code is more aligned with our cruising tastes. We won't be on Oceania, Regent, or the other lines. Heck, Carnival is too much for us. NCL hits the sweet spot. 

 

 

 

Not to re-start the last 20 posts --- But the whole point of the discount discussion, is evidence that "booking solid" is a meaningless indicator. The whole cruise model is to book almost every cruise 100% solid, continuously dropping prices until it happens. So if they are dropping the prices of the Haven suites in order to book them, it shows the opposite -- that people are not paying the price NCL wants. 

 

They certainly have internal metrics:  I'm making up these exact numbers, but something like:

Goals:

To have Haven 90% booked before 120 day mark at "full" price.

To have Haven 95% booked by 90 day mark, at 90% of of full price.

To have Haven 100% by 60 day mark at 80% of full price.

 

(And they would have similar metrics for the entire cruise, for every cabin category, etc). 

 

These exact numbers are made up. No idea what their actual goals are, but I can be certain that similar metrics exists.

 

Knowing they are 100% booked by sail date tells us nothing. The real issue (pretty much unknowable to us) is whether they are hitting their internal metrics. 

 

 

[cruiseny4life]

6 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

Not to re-start the last 20 posts --- But the whole point of the discount discussion, is evidence that "booking solid" is a meaningless indicator. The whole cruise model is to book almost every cruise 100% solid, continuously dropping prices until it happens. So if they are dropping the prices of the Haven suites in order to book them, it shows the opposite -- that people are not paying the price NCL wants. 

 

They certainly have internal metrics:  I'm making up these exact numbers, but something like:

Goals:

To have Haven 90% booked before 120 day mark at "full" price.

To have Haven 95% booked by 90 day mark, at 90% of of full price.

To have Haven 100% by 60 day mark at 80% of full price.

 

(And they would have similar metrics for the entire cruise, for every cabin category, etc). 

 

These exact numbers are made up. No idea what their actual goals are, but I can be certain that similar metrics exists.

 

Knowing they are 100% booked by sail date tells us nothing. The real issue (pretty much unknowable to us) is whether they are hitting their internal metrics. 

 

 

100% booked prior to sale date tells me everything I need to know. The Haven is booking solid. And, if you want to discount what others have said regarding upgrade bids, we (those that follow this mundane crap) know virtually no one is actually winning a bid into the Haven anymore. That happened a lot in the restart. Vacant rooms aren't causing bidders to win. Cancellations are causing bidders to win. 

 

So, yea we can't know for sure and won't know unless an NCL employee would like to provide us info...but we can use our intuition to understand the Haven is selling out at fairly high prices. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove. Frankie boy isn't around to argue with about the non-discount pricing strategy NCL uses. So, you're saying a lot of words, but I'm still not really hearing a thesis or hypothesis. 

 

I'm just not buying that Norwegian is discounting the Haven considerably. Like @graphicguy I am constantly watching Haven fares. I book within the final payment date almost always. There's not a lot I'll touch right now as I want my price to be about $300 per person, per day like @Sailing12Away. And, I'm just not seeing inventory in that price category like I did a year ago. 

[cruiseny4life]

Here's one you can book though. It's an exception given it's the Transatlantic after Joy's drydock. All-in (minus airfare) for $254 per person, per day. GOSH I wish I had the freaking vacation time. 

 

Airfare from Syracuse is only $500 per person too. Still under $300/person. $296 total. SOMEONE GO BOOK THE HAVEN and do a live so I can be vicarious!

 

[havoc315]

15 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

100% booked prior to sale date tells me everything I need to know. The Haven is booking solid. And, if you want to discount what others have said regarding upgrade bids, we (those that follow this mundane crap) know virtually no one is actually winning a bid into the Haven anymore. That happened a lot in the restart. Vacant rooms aren't causing bidders to win. Cancellations are causing bidders to win. 

 

So, yea we can't know for sure and won't know unless an NCL employee would like to provide us info...but we can use our intuition to understand the Haven is selling out at fairly high prices. I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove. Frankie boy isn't around to argue with about the non-discount pricing strategy NCL uses. So, you're saying a lot of words, but I'm still not really hearing a thesis or hypothesis. 

 

I'm just not buying that Norwegian is discounting the Haven considerably. Like @graphicguy I am constantly watching Haven fares. I book within the final payment date almost always. There's not a lot I'll touch right now as I want my price to be about $300 per person, per day like @Sailing12Away. And, I'm just not seeing inventory in that price category like I did a year ago. 

 

100% booked tells us absolutely nothing if we don't know the rate they are getting.

If one cruise line is booking their cabins 100% at $1 per cabin, and one cruise line is booking their cabins 100% at $50,000 per cabin ---  Those two cruise lines are not equally successful.

Apart from Covid recovery, virtually every cruise is always 100% booked, that's the business model. 

 

Second -- It's not upgrade bids. We know with absolute certainty that most of the time, the Haven is NOT 100% booked at full price. Not talking upgrade bids (those are last resort).  Price trackers (cruiseplum is excellent) continuously show large discounting of the Haven suites as the cruise date gets closer.  Sometimes 60% discounts and greater.  

Now, that's not always the case -- for some very popular dates and itineraries, you'll find prices go UP as you get closer to the sales date, suggesting NCL is outpacing their metrics for that particular cruise.  But more often than not, you're seeing prices drop.  

 

 

[havoc315]

18 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

Here's one you can book though. It's an exception given it's the Transatlantic after Joy's drydock. All-in (minus airfare) for $254 per person, per day. GOSH I wish I had the freaking vacation time. 

 

Airfare from Syracuse is only $500 per person too. Still under $300/person. $296 total. SOMEONE GO BOOK THE HAVEN and do a live so I can be vicarious!

 

 

Prices are much lower for transatlantic cruises, especially if you wait till the last minute. You're looking at a cruise just 11 days away --- Proves my point.  Total under $5,000.  According to cruiseplum, those prices have fallen 50% since late 2023, with a big price drop at the 120 mark in October 2023.  (and thus, proving my point --- huge discount within the 120 days window).  

[cruiseny4life]

7 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

Prices are much lower for transatlantic cruises, especially if you wait till the last minute. You're looking at a cruise just 11 days away --- Proves my point.  Total under $5,000.  According to cruiseplum, those prices have fallen 50% since late 2023, with a big price drop at the 120 mark in October 2023.  (and thus, proving my point --- huge discount within the 120 days window).  

On this, we're saying the same thing...but these big price drops are now less frequent than they were a year ago. Every cruise (but 2) we booked inside final payment and every cruise we book in the future will (probably) be within final payment as that is the most opportune time to book since we can be flexible with dates and locations (if you discount my whining that I can't take off for this specific cruise haha).

 

I didn't really know your point, so uhh...you're welcome? 

[cruiseny4life]

15 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

 

100% booked tells us absolutely nothing if we don't know the rate they are getting.

If one cruise line is booking their cabins 100% at $1 per cabin, and one cruise line is booking their cabins 100% at $50,000 per cabin ---  Those two cruise lines are not equally successful.

Apart from Covid recovery, virtually every cruise is always 100% booked, that's the business model. 

 

Second -- It's not upgrade bids. We know with absolute certainty that most of the time, the Haven is NOT 100% booked at full price. Not talking upgrade bids (those are last resort).  Price trackers (cruiseplum is excellent) continuously show large discounting of the Haven suites as the cruise date gets closer.  Sometimes 60% discounts and greater.  

Now, that's not always the case -- for some very popular dates and itineraries, you'll find prices go UP as you get closer to the sales date, suggesting NCL is outpacing their metrics for that particular cruise.  But more often than not, you're seeing prices drop.  

 

 

To your first point - we know they aren't selling cabins for a $1. Are you trying to compare NCL to RCCL and Carnival and MSC? Based on discounted prices? 

 

I haven't seen an aggregate measurement of Haven suites compared to Sea/Sky Class compared to Yacht Club suites to know if they are/aren't discounting more or less. I do know that oftentimes I can find a fare similar or less expensive on Yacht Club. I also know Sea/Sky Class doesn't offer as similar a product as NCL and Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers (even the Garden Villas). So, comparing...again, I don't  think you can. Is that what you're trying to do? Again, I'm just trying to figure out what the point is. 

 

I find the conversation interesting, because it's Haven, marketing, pricing, strategy, etc...if I had time I'd aggregate the last 60 days of Haven sailings on Cruise Plum, but alas, I don't have quite that much time. It would be an interesting exercise though. 

[havoc315]

2 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

On this, we're saying the same thing...but these big price drops are now less frequent than they were a year ago. Every cruise (but 2) we booked inside final payment and every cruise we book in the future will (probably) be within final payment as that is the most opportune time to book since we can be flexible with dates and locations (if you discount my whining that I can't take off for this specific cruise haha).

 

I didn't really know your point, so uhh...you're welcome? 

 

That's what is difficult to tell without going through piles of data, instead relying on anecdote -- To what degree are they discounting more or less than the past. And to what extent is it because of recovery from Covid, better price analysis from the start, etc.  

[havoc315]

1 minute ago, cruiseny4life said:

To your first point - we know they aren't selling cabins for a $1. Are you trying to compare NCL to RCCL and Carnival and MSC? Based on discounted prices? 

 

I haven't seen an aggregate measurement of Haven suites compared to Sea/Sky Class compared to Yacht Club suites to know if they are/aren't discounting more or less. I do know that oftentimes I can find a fare similar or less expensive on Yacht Club. I also know Sea/Sky Class doesn't offer as similar a product as NCL and Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers (even the Garden Villas). So, comparing...again, I don't  think you can. Is that what you're trying to do? Again, I'm just trying to figure out what the point is. 

 

I find the conversation interesting, because it's Haven, marketing, pricing, strategy, etc...if I had time I'd aggregate the last 60 days of Haven sailings on Cruise Plum, but alas, I don't have quite that much time. It would be an interesting exercise though. 

 

We know they aren't selling the suites for $1.. and they aren't getting $50,000 per night either. Those exaggerated numbers demonstrate the point ---   Equally valid to say that 100% booking at $500 is not the same as 100% booking at $501.  The 100% tells you nothing, it's the rate they are booking at.

 

And YES -- The Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers!!!  AND THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE.   Why doesn't NCL offer it?  How many potential customers is NCL Haven losing to RCL Star class?

 

You figured it out ---  That's the WHOLE POINT.  

 

NCL is not keeping up with offerings like Star Class.  10-15 years ago, Haven suites were a superior offering to anything on RCL, that has now changed.  Haven has not kept up!

 

It wouldn't exactly be hard to NCL to match Star class ---  Improve the butler/suite ratio, include specialty dining and alcohol, include gratuities and top internet package.  

 

 

[cruiseny4life]

1 minute ago, havoc315 said:

 

We know they aren't selling the suites for $1.. and they aren't getting $50,000 per night either. Those exaggerated numbers demonstrate the point ---   Equally valid to say that 100% booking at $500 is not the same as 100% booking at $501.  The 100% tells you nothing, it's the rate they are booking at.

 

And YES -- The Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers!!!  AND THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE.   Why doesn't NCL offer it?  How many potential customers is NCL Haven losing to RCL Star class?

 

You figured it out ---  That's the WHOLE POINT.  

 

NCL is not keeping up with offerings like Star Class.  10-15 years ago, Haven suites were a superior offering to anything on RCL, that has now changed.  Haven has not kept up!

 

It wouldn't exactly be hard to NCL to match Star class ---  Improve the butler/suite ratio, include specialty dining and alcohol, include gratuities and top internet package.  

 

 

YAY!! We're agreeing and understanding each other now. Haha - we win the internet today. 

 

I think I knew the amenities part earlier, but got distracted by discounts and numbers. That often happens...or I overthink things. 

 

So as not to talk for a really long time, yes I agree that an truly all-inclusive rate category should be offered by NCL. 

[havoc315]

5 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

YAY!! We're agreeing and understanding each other now. Haha - we win the internet today. 

 

I think I knew the amenities part earlier, but got distracted by discounts and numbers. That often happens...or I overthink things. 

 

So as not to talk for a really long time, yes I agree that an truly all-inclusive rate category should be offered by NCL. 

 

lol, glad we kept it civil and are seeing eye to eye.

 

It's been a few years since I sailed NCL Haven, but have a Garden Villa trip coming up.

 

NCL does give their Garden Villas and Owner's Suites a tiny bit more than the other suites. But not a true "Star class" or "Mega Rock Star" class, etc.  Now, are they losing some customers to other lines because of those benefits?  I don't know. From a guest perspective, a guest paying $20,000 to $30,000 for a cabin may rather have a truly all inclusive trip for $20,200 to $30,200, rather than a $20,000 to $30,000 trip where you keep facing extra charges.  

[Sailing12Away]

42 minutes ago, havoc315 said:

And YES -- The Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers!!!  AND THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE.   Why doesn't NCL offer it?  How many potential customers is NCL Haven losing to RCL Star class?

 

You figured it out ---  That's the WHOLE POINT.  

 

NCL is not keeping up with offerings like Star Class.  10-15 years ago, Haven suites were a superior offering to anything on RCL, that has now changed.  Haven has not kept up!

 

It wouldn't exactly be hard to NCL to match Star class ---  Improve the butler/suite ratio, include specialty dining and alcohol, include gratuities and top internet package.  

But again, you're missing the point. NCL does offer such things - on a completely different sister brand of ships for folks who value those such things. And there are many of us who don't give a hoot about race cars and all the other frills, we just want a large comfy room with a good bar.

 

Even with the free internet and premium drinks - whoop-de-doo for those who care about such things. You can upgrade to the FAS plus plan on NCL for significantly less money than it costs to be in an entry level star class suite on RCC. So again - not even close in comparison, apples vs pinecones does not equal a happy pineapple dance.

My next trip with NCL I can upgrade to P+ for $343/pp to get the missing unlimited internet, premium drinks, and extra specialty dining. Even if I did that, the price I would pay is still less than 1/2 of what RCC is offering for a similar itinerary, same length cruise, exact same dates, in their Star class. Granted - it's the newest, latest, greatest, blah blah so yeah, inflated for the newness.... But our 2br Haven suite is less than half that of their Star class.

 

A less newer ship, same results. No Star class available as it's too close to sailing, but even with their Sky class... our Haven cabin is still less than half what their charging on RCC.

 

So again.... I'm struggling to understand what RCC is offering for that Star class to justify 2x the price of a Haven room when on their previous ships to Icon they didn't even have a Haven-like suite area for guests. All you get is a fancy room and a magic genie to cut the line for you when you want to wipe out on their flow rider.

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, havoc315 said:

And YES -- The Star Class is far beyond anything NCL offers!!!  AND THAT'S THE WHOLE ISSUE.   Why doesn't NCL offer it?  How many potential customers is NCL Haven losing to RCL Star class?

 

You figured it out ---  That's the WHOLE POINT.  

 

NCL is not keeping up with offerings like Star Class.  10-15 years ago, Haven suites were a superior offering to anything on RCL, that has now changed.  Haven has not kept up!

None. 
 

We had a 2-story loft suite in 2022. Totally unimpressed. And we’re Diamond on NCL and Royal.  Coastal Kitchen was an embarrassment for both food and service. We walked out twice and went to the Windjammer. 

 

We booked two Haven reservations in 2023. Along with 3 steerage rooms on NCL. 

[havoc315]

37 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

But again, you're missing the point. NCL does offer such things - on a completely different sister brand of ships for folks who value those such things. And there are many of us who don't give a hoot about race cars and all the other frills, we just want a large comfy room with a good bar.

 

Even with the free internet and premium drinks - whoop-de-doo for those who care about such things. You can upgrade to the FAS plus plan on NCL for significantly less money than it costs to be in an entry level star class suite on RCC. So again - not even close in comparison, apples vs pinecones does not equal a happy pineapple dance.

My next trip with NCL I can upgrade to P+ for $343/pp to get the missing unlimited internet, premium drinks, and extra specialty dining. Even if I did that, the price I would pay is still less than 1/2 of what RCC is offering for a similar itinerary, same length cruise, exact same dates, in their Star class. Granted - it's the newest, latest, greatest, blah blah so yeah, inflated for the newness.... But our 2br Haven suite is less than half that of their Star class.

 

A less newer ship, same results. No Star class available as it's too close to sailing, but even with their Sky class... our Haven cabin is still less than half what their charging on RCC.

 

So again.... I'm struggling to understand what RCC is offering for that Star class to justify 2x the price of a Haven room when on their previous ships to Icon they didn't even have a Haven-like suite area for guests. All you get is a fancy room and a magic genie to cut the line for you when you want to wipe out on their flow rider.

 

You answered your own questioned:

 

"I'm struggling to understand what RCC is offering for that Star class to justify 2x the price of a Haven room"

 

While you might not find the extra benefits worth the extra cost, obviously there are customers who do. NCL is missing out on those customers, or unable to charge the same amount.  

 

(And offering it on separate brands is entirely irrelevant -- Those luxury brands don't have some of the advantages of a large ship -- As your own statement about Star suites proves, there is a market for that type of service and inclusivity on large ships).  

[Sailing12Away]

20 hours ago, havoc315 said:

 

You answered your own questioned:

 

"I'm struggling to understand what RCC is offering for that Star class to justify 2x the price of a Haven room"

 

While you might not find the extra benefits worth the extra cost, obviously there are customers who do. NCL is missing out on those customers, or unable to charge the same amount.  

 

(And offering it on separate brands is entirely irrelevant -- Those luxury brands don't have some of the advantages of a large ship -- As your own statement about Star suites proves, there is a market for that type of service and inclusivity on large ships).  

It was a serious question, that I have not yet heard a single answer to. Free internet, free unlimited specialty dining, etc - does not justify an extra cost of 20K. Sorry, it's not about my perception of worth. It's RCC - not a 5 star michelin level food you're getting. 

 

Since you said "Star class is far beyond anything NCL offers" - explain it to me. What are they giving you that makes it so far beyond?

 

And it's not irrelevant - I already told us there are plenty of us who don't want a big ship with Times Square sitting on top of it. 

[havoc315]

16 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

It was a serious question, that I have not yet heard a single answer to. Free internet, free unlimited specialty dining, etc - does not justify an extra cost of 20K. Sorry, it's not about my perception of worth. It's RCC - not a 5 star michelin level food you're getting. 

 

Since you said "Star class is far beyond anything NCL offers" - explain it to me. What are they giving you that makes it so far beyond?

 

And it's not irrelevant - I already told us there are plenty of us who don't want a big ship with Times Square sitting on top of it. 

Does not justify it to you. That’s your subjective personal answer. Objectively, we know there are people it does appeal to, that are willing to pay more. Otherwise, RCL wouldn’t be selling those suites. 
 

You’re confusing your personal opinion to the market as a whole.  Most people wouldn’t buy a Rolls Royce… does that mean Rolls Royce should just stop making cars? No, because a market exists for Rolls Royce. 
 

Just as a market exists for large cruise ships to offer a limited number of luxury level accommodations. 
 

You can say nothing justifies RCC pricing. They don’t need to justify anything.  The justification is, “is there a consumer willing to buy it.”

Now here is what neither of us know, if they added a small investment in their highest level of cabins, would it allow them to charge even more than the costs. Say, the “cost” to NCL of making Deluxe Owner’s Suites *truly* all-inclusive — say that actual cost to NCL is $100 per night… would it then allow them to charge guests an extra $101 or more.  If so, then they are missing out by failing to do it. 
 

My prediction: Within 3 years, NCL offers some sort of Haven-plus/Star class type level of accommodation, something with more perks than current Haven rooms.  
 

(ps… Michelin gives a maximum of 3 stars. )

Edited February 3 by havoc315

[dexddd]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:31 AM, cruiseny4life said:

Here's one you can book though. It's an exception given it's the Transatlantic after Joy's drydock. All-in (minus airfare) for $254 per person, per day. GOSH I wish I had the freaking vacation time. 

 

Airfare from Syracuse is only $500 per person too. Still under $300/person. $296 total. SOMEONE GO BOOK THE HAVEN and do a live so I can be vicarious!

 

Saw that too.  Can't swing it from work.

 

Prima TA also has entry level Haven for 15 days cheap.

[IAcruising]

I've been reading along, I really have. But I'm trying to wrap my head around all this intense discussion about what to me is essentially Econ101.

 

Is it normal for NCL to have a DOS available after final payment, for which they need to discount in order to sell?

 

If yes, then they are charging too much to begin with, because the demand at that level isn't there.

 

In no, then they need more DOS's or charge a higher price, because the demand is higher than the supply.

 

What am I missing?

 

[Sailing12Away]

22 hours ago, havoc315 said:

Does not justify it to you. That’s your subjective personal answer. Objectively, we know there are people it does appeal to, that are willing to pay more. Otherwise, RCL wouldn’t be selling those suites. 
 

You’re confusing your personal opinion to the market as a whole.  Most people wouldn’t buy a Rolls Royce… does that mean Rolls Royce should just stop making cars? No, because a market exists for Rolls Royce. 

Last attempt then I'm no longer beating the dead horse with deaf ears. I am asking you, specifically you, what you perceive to be the reason why the RCC star class is worth the value, since you were the one who said that it was amazing and implied it would be worth it to you. It is not about my subjective opinion. The unlimited internet package has a set cost. The unlimited dining package has a set cost. It isn't about my perception of their value - it literally costs xyz dollars to add that on if missing from an existing NCL booking. What else is there? 

 

Does the room come with a gold plated toilet that you perceive to be a value add? Is the toilet paper 3-ply instead of the regular 2-ply in the other cabins? Are the coffee mugs in the room made of fine china instead of mass produced ceramic? With a RR there are factors that go into the car which a standard Honda Civic doesn't have. Is it enough bonuses to justify the price different, no, and that's where the perceived value comes from for folks who care about the name brand and clout/status of having the car. But yes, there are differences and little touches which bridge the gap a bit - that is what I've been asking for clarification on. What are those extra touches included beyond the subjective perceived value of star class?

 

16 hours ago, IAcruising said:

I've been reading along, I really have. But I'm trying to wrap my head around all this intense discussion about what to me is essentially Econ101.

 

Is it normal for NCL to have a DOS available after final payment, for which they need to discount in order to sell?

 

If yes, then they are charging too much to begin with, because the demand at that level isn't there.

 

In no, then they need more DOS's or charge a higher price, because the demand is higher than the supply.

 

What am I missing?

 

You're spot on. The fact that after final payment there are still many NCL ships with Haven rooms and some with super fancy rooms still available shows to me that the starting point was too high and isn't real.

[BirdTravels]

It depends. You can generate all the metrics you want. That’s what the mainstream media does… take a bunch of data out of context and makes fake news. 

 

All that counts is what is available on your cruise. On our April 2024 cruise, the Haven is 100% sold out. On our August 2024 cruise, the Haven is 100% sold out. 

[havoc315]

52 minutes ago, Sailing12Away said:

Last attempt then I'm no longer beating the dead horse with deaf ears. I am asking you, specifically you, what you perceive to be the reason why the RCC star class is worth the value, since you were the one who said that it was amazing and implied it would be worth it to you. It is not about my subjective opinion. The unlimited internet package has a set cost. The unlimited dining package has a set cost. It isn't about my perception of their value - it literally costs xyz dollars to add that on if missing from an existing NCL booking. What else is there? 

 

Does the room come with a gold plated toilet that you perceive to be a value add? Is the toilet paper 3-ply instead of the regular 2-ply in the other cabins? Are the coffee mugs in the room made of fine china instead of mass produced ceramic? With a RR there are factors that go into the car which a standard Honda Civic doesn't have. Is it enough bonuses to justify the price different, no, and that's where the perceived value comes from for folks who care about the name brand and clout/status of having the car. But yes, there are differences and little touches which bridge the gap a bit - that is what I've been asking for clarification on. What are those extra touches included beyond the subjective perceived value of star class?

 

You're spot on. The fact that after final payment there are still many NCL ships with Haven rooms and some with super fancy rooms still available shows to me that the starting point was too high and isn't real.

I never said it was worth it to me. I said it was worth it to SOMEONE, as those rooms are getting booked. Thus, objectively the market exists. Whether it’s worth it TO ME or not is irrelevant. Whether it’s worth it TO YOU is irrelevant. The only question is: is it worth it to enough people to sell it.  RCL shows the answer is yes. Other luxury cruise lines show the answer is yes.