Fourth Excel Ship Ordered for a 2027 Delivery

[Stick93]

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Still true. All the more reason for Carnival to go smaller. Royal's solution to fewer ports is shorter itineraries. But Carnival's smaller ships can get to more ports.

I am sure glad you don’t have a seat with the suits at carnival. Thinking small is for companies in trouble. The new behemoth ship for royal are getting $1500 per person for inside rooms and that’s for anytime in the next 2 years. I can go on the carnival celebration for$1500 in a balcony for 2 people.  Seems like the ships are a selling point more than the destination. Just because your preference may be for smaller, cheaper, less pay entertainment and more ports that all look the same anyways - doesn’t make it more profitable. 

[Stick93]

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Still true. All the more reason for Carnival to go smaller. Royal's solution to fewer ports is shorter itineraries. But Carnival's smaller ships can get to more ports.

Most of carnivals small ships need to go to only one port - the one in turkey and never come back. Those ships have sailed! (Pun intended) 

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

But every cruise line heavily visits Bahamas ports. Nassau, the private islands. The costs are passed to the passengers who travel. The taxes and port fees are something people understand less than where their tips go to. This comment means nothing.  

                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[BlerkOne]

42 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

 

 

47 minutes ago, Stick93 said:

I am sure glad you don’t have a seat with the suits at carnival. Thinking small is for companies in trouble. The new behemoth ship for royal are getting $1500 per person for inside rooms and that’s for anytime in the next 2 years. I can go on the carnival celebration for$1500 in a balcony for 2 people.  Seems like the ships are a selling point more than the destination. Just because your preference may be for smaller, cheaper, less pay entertainment and more ports that all look the same anyways - doesn’t make it more profitable. 

Royal has to charge more in order to cover fixed costs. Your lack of economic knowledge shows 

Edited March 8 by BlerkOne

[tidecat]

55 minutes ago, JMKreno said:

Added argument for an excel class ship in LA, Royal is expanding in LA by adding the Quantum of the Seas. https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/03/royal-caribbean-quantums-los-angeles-program-includes-44-departures/

 

I imagine the Panorama will move EAST and be replaced with the Excel class to compete with the Quantum and Firenze to compete with the Navigator. 

 

 

I really doubt this will happen but one can hope. I mean, it would honestly make sense on the West Coast - that is the port that they use to get that large west coast market exposed to cruising Carnival and an Excel Class would be a hell of an introduction!

Quantum of the Seas was spending the (North American) winter season in Australia. RCI has withdrawn her from Australia, but wants to keep her on Alaska service, therefore Los Angeles was the only real choice. If RCI is returning to Brisbane in late 2025, it hasn't been announced yet.

 

Quantum also isn't much bigger than Panorama or Firenze, and Quantum is older than both of them. I'm not sure this move really merits a response, especially since Carnival's ships are sailing year-round from Long Beach. Unless if Carnival cuts capacity elsewhere, Carnival can't really respond before mid-2027.

 

Now whether Panorama merits being moved to a new port by 2027 as part of a normal refresh would be a perfectly reasonable question. A 2029 move may be more likely as that would be the natural drydock date.

[bg2310]

Regardless, the Bahamas has decided to institute a VAT tax including on services and goods operated on private islands within its jurisdiction that the cruise lines own, so it will be getting its share regardless of whether the ships are sailing to only the cruise lines' own private islands or not.

 

Excel class is definitely not going to NOLA anytime soon, and considering the limited number of ports on the West coast, I doubt one goes there either. I think we'd see an Excel go on a 3-4/5 night itinerary schedule (probably out of Miami) to Celebration Key and back similar to how RCCL is now doing with their new ships, before Excel class goes to either of those locations.

 

Of course, only Mardi Gras I think would be on the table for any 3-5 night itinerary option, not anything newer or otherwise in that class.

Edited March 8 by bg2310

[jimbo5544]

19 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Regardless, the Bahamas has decided to institute a VAT tax including on services and goods operated on private islands within its jurisdiction that the cruise lines own, so it will be getting its share regardless of whether the ships are sailing to only the cruise lines' own private islands or not.

 

Excel class is definitely not going to NOLA anytime soon, and considering the limited number of ports on the West coast, I doubt one goes there either. I think we'd see an Excel go on a 3-4/5 night itinerary schedule (probably out of Miami) to Celebration Key and back similar to how RCCL is now doing with their new ships, before Excel class goes to either of those locations.

 

Of course, only Mardi Gras I think would be on the table for any 3-5 night itinerary option, not anything newer or otherwise in that class.

At the end of the day, they will do what makes most sense for “them”, as it is with every line.  If 3 to 5 days becomes the way for MG, we will with a heavy sigh, move on to other CCL ships.  If that makes them more profitable, then that is where they will go.  As I have said many times, cruising is evolving. Bigger and bigger ships, more limited ports of call, and more cruise line amusement parks on the ships and on their private ports of call.  All that said, we will cruise on smaller ships, go on longer cruises and explore new places.  

[jimbo5544]

30 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

Regardless, the Bahamas has decided to institute a VAT tax including on services and goods operated on private islands within its jurisdiction that the cruise lines own, so it will be getting its share regardless of whether the ships are sailing to only the cruise lines' own private islands or not.

 

Excel class is definitely not going to NOLA anytime soon, and considering the limited number of ports on the West coast, I doubt one goes there either. I think we'd see an Excel go on a 3-4/5 night itinerary schedule (probably out of Miami) to Celebration Key and back similar to how RCCL is now doing with their new ships, before Excel class goes to either of those locations.

 

Of course, only Mardi Gras I think would be on the table for any 3-5 night itinerary option, not anything newer or otherwise in that class.

The bahamas best think and choose wisely.

[bg2310]

20 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

The bahamas best think and choose wisely.

It's a done deal, already passed by their government, nothing that is going to stop it now.

 

• The Bahamian government will impose a Value Added Tax (VAT) on goods and services at cruise line private islands.
•  
• The new tax reform ends a nine-year VAT exemption and affects major cruise lines.
•  
• The VAT rate will be 10% on all passenger transactions.

 

https://www.vatupdate.com/2024/02/10/bahamas-implements-new-tax-on-cruise-line-private-islands-impacting-passengers-and-industry/#:~:text=The Bahamian government will impose,10% on all passenger transactions.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/bahamas-to-impose-new-tax-on-cruise-line-private-islands/122912

 

 

And naturally, since it is sure to raise the cruise lines' fixed costs, it will be passed along to consumers with higher fares and port tax & fees.

 

It also makes sense from the Bahamian perspective with more of the cruise tourism revenue being moved to cruise lines' own private islands with the current trend. 

Edited March 8 by bg2310

[jimbo5544]

5 minutes ago, bg2310 said:

It's a done deal, already passed by their government, nothing that is going to stop it now.

 

• The Bahamian government will impose a Value Added Tax (VAT) on goods and services at cruise line private islands.
•  
• The new tax reform ends a nine-year VAT exemption and affects major cruise lines.
•  
• The VAT rate will be 10% on all passenger transactions.

 

https://www.vatupdate.com/2024/02/10/bahamas-implements-new-tax-on-cruise-line-private-islands-impacting-passengers-and-industry/#:~:text=The Bahamian government will impose,10% on all passenger transactions.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/bahamas-to-impose-new-tax-on-cruise-line-private-islands/122912

 

 

And naturally, since it is sure to raise the cruise lines' fixed costs, it will be passed along to consumers with higher fares and port tax & fees.

 

It also makes sense from the Bahamian perspective with more of the cruise tourism revenue being moved from their ports to cruise lines' own private islands with the current trend. 

Did I say differently?  Now we will see how the industry reacts.  I will respond with some bullets which back up my point.  The Bahamas is on a list of areas that are under scrutiny.  The state department has raised the level, warning Americans on going there.  Cruise lines have done the same. Is the best way to deal with their issues tax more?  I could go on and on.    

[bg2310]

5 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Did I say differently?  Now we will see how the industry reacts.  I will respond with some bullets which back up my point.  The Bahamas is on a list of areas that are under scrutiny.  The state department has raised the level, warning Americans on going there.  Cruise lines have done the same. Is the best way to deal with their issues tax more?  I could go on and on.    

Not at all, only clearing it up as your comment gave me the impression perhaps it was just something they were considering.

 

By the way, none of that seems to be impacting the tourists and passengers flocking there in droves. From both sea and air, mind you. 

 

They've already beat records this year. Not saying that's a good thing, but clearly people aren't all that concerned about that. Most if not all of that criminal activity happens everywhere, including cities in the US. 

Edited March 8 by bg2310

[jimbo5544]

Just now, bg2310 said:

Not at all, only clearing it up as your comment gave me the impression perhaps it was just something they were considering.

 

By the way, none of that seems to be impacting the tourists and passengers flocking there in droves. From both sea and air, mind you. 

 

They've already beat records this year. Not saying that's a good thing, but clearly people aren't all that concerned about that. Most if not all of that criminal activity happens everywhere, including every city in the US. 

Which can change in a heartbeat.  There are choices, we all make.  Go to where the state dept says you are in danger, or somewhere else.  Couple more incidents and it flips like a switch. 

[Stick93]

8 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Yes, you do. This is the Carnival board.

Carnival is a big company. They will survive our small gabs. Heck we cruise on them (not so much anymore) but I have been on 15 of their journeys.
 

 

 

 

 

[bg2310]

14 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Which can change in a heartbeat.  There are choices, we all make.  Go to where the state dept says you are in danger, or somewhere else.  Couple more incidents and it flips like a switch. 

I agree that it could change, and perhaps people will start to be spooked by visiting there if future incidents occur and are spotlighted. Only time will tell.

 

But I fail to see how any detrimental impact to their tourism market or visits there would make them re-think the VAT.

 

If anything, that only incentivizes them to keep it since it basically ensures a revenue stream even as people may be spooked away from their cities but go to the cruise lines' private islands.

 

I think only some major lobbying from the cruising/tourism industries that provide some lucrative projects or new revenue stream would get them to rethink VAT at this point.

Edited March 8 by bg2310

[jimbo5544]

Just now, bg2310 said:

I agree that it could change, and perhaps people will start to be spooked by visiting there if future incidents occur and are spotlighted. Only time will tell.

 

But I fail to see how any detrimental impact to their tourism market or visits there would make them re-think the VAT.

 

If anything, that only incentivizes them to keep it since it basically ensures a revenue stream even as people may be spooked away from their cities but go to the cruise lines' private islands.

Will move on after this post.  All things count.  All things add up into the decisions.  Increasing revenue streams does not impact their issues, the gangs, the violence, in all likelihood they increase it.  I have no belief they will change their view.  Dead Presidents speak volumes.    

[jedi bobs]

I just had another thought, Maybe Excel 4 can take the place of Magic, Vista or Horizon and they can go to NOLA, and Liberty or Valor can go to San Juan, and split that seasonly with Alaska and make Spirit permanant in Mobile.

 

[CarnivalShips480]

There probably wouldn't be a market for a world cruise, but what if Carnival tries something new like send a (older ship, not talking about the 4th Excel here) to South America or even Antarctica? Maybe for a season

[jsglow]

On 3/7/2024 at 2:35 AM, tidecat said:

The biggest problem New Orleans has is that it's not in Texas or Florida. Moving up to the Excel class would nearly double Carnival's capacity on either 7-day or 4/5-day cruises out of New Orleans. If New Orleans were that underserved, we'd probably already see something done about it.

Nailed it. Carnival pulled Dream out simply because they couldn't sell Dream. Now the market may have changed but you'll see a Dream or a Vista reassigned to New Orleans long before you ever see an Excel there.

[jimbo5544]

31 minutes ago, CarnivalShips480 said:

There probably wouldn't be a market for a world cruise, but what if Carnival tries something new like send a (older ship, not talking about the 4th Excel here) to South America or even Antarctica? Maybe for a season

I doubt they would, but after doing Antartica on Celebrity, I would jump on Carnival if they did it.  The did SA once when they sailed the Splendor around, think it was 3 separate segments.  Not sure if the economics work, but I could lead groups on those all day long.  

[jimbo5544]

10 minutes ago, jsglow said:

Nailed it. Carnival pulled Dream out simply because they couldn't sell Dream. Now the market may have changed but you'll see a Dream or a Vista reassigned to New Orleans long before you ever see an Excel there.

I would love to see the data behind their Euro sailings.  Years back, it was a hard sell, not sure why.  My sense is that it is doing WAY better.  In the US market, some homeports just struggle.  NYC year round is one, San Juan is another, and before Panorama, the 7 day market struggled on the west coast.  Just some color to your comment on the ptential for market change vs the way it was.  

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I doubt they would, but after doing Antartica on Celebrity, I would jump on Carnival if they did it.  The did SA once when they sailed the Splendor around, think it was 3 separate segments.  Not sure if the economics work, but I could lead groups on those all day long.  

It was 3 and they did it twice - before the new Panama locks opened. Then they took Splendor through the new locks. Both Princess and HAL do SA and Antarctica and I doubt Carnival would be interested.

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I would love to see the data behind their Euro sailings. 

I think you know Carnival brands don't release data like that. Some people just like speculating.

[john91498]

This entire thread is all speculation

[jimbo5544]

40 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It was 3 and they did it twice - before the new Panama locks opened. Then they took Splendor through the new locks. Both Princess and HAL do SA and Antarctica and I doubt Carnival would be interested.

Do not disagree.  Still would love it

[jimbo5544]

41 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I think you know Carnival brands don't release data like that. Some people just like speculating.

I do, but still would love to see it.

Edited March 8 by jimbo5544